Reading the OP's previous posts she is planning her next litter in June, making it only 9 months between litters.

I really think that some breed clubs, and indeed the Kennel Club, don't help because they are not always demanding enough. The RR clubs just recommend that breeding stock is scored.  I don't think that's good enough!  And it gives "breeders" an excuse not to score, which sometimes they fail to do through ignorance.  I believe that my breed should be hipscored before being bred from and have never/would never use any of my dogs on unscored bitches.  I would always encourage a would be breeder to hip score - sometimes making them aware of their liabilities should any offspring develop HD, particularly so if the parents aren't both scored with decent scores, can be the motivating factor!

When the KC and breed clubs don't insist on scoring, maybe it's a little unfair to be quite so hard on people who haven't scored their dogs?  Maybe it's up to us - who try to do our best - to encourage them to do so in the future, rather than be quite so critical, I don't know?  Discuss!!

The breed club does actually recommend hip scoring but it is listed in the health section below the list of members that are breeders.

>The breed club does actually recommend hip scoring

That's true - I was only looking in the Code of Ethics. They do actually say:

"All breeding dogs should be x-rayed and hip scored using the KC/BVA hip scoring scheme before mating."

Along with the other health warnings, that seems very responsible.

The wrong thing has already been done, the OP was aware of the health tests judging by past posts, so why wasn't it done?  How can you guide someone when they know the wrong thing has already been done?  How can you guide someone who clearly didn't want the help and advice in the first place?  How can you also guide someone when upon looking upon their website their dogs are from very good breeders, both dogs appear to have decent lines - but no health tests, surely their dogs breeders should have been the first port of call should the OP have needed some advice regarding health testing and the OP's search for a suitable stud dog.

I'm not going to offer anyone advice in searching for a suitable stud dog as their own bitch hasn't been scored, why should I? Matter of fact why should anyone else?  It would be unethical of me to do so and others if they value their reputation! And anyone with a good stud dog should run an absolute mile, until the bitch has been scored!

I AM NOT BREEDING HER AGAIN UNTIL I HAVE HER SCORED AND I DO NOT PLAN TO BREED HER AGAIN AFTER I HAVE THE GOOD SCORES UNTIL DEC 08 JAN 09 WHICH WILL BE OVER 12 MONTHS SINCE HER LAST LITTER. THE DOG I AM PLANNING TO USE HAS GOOD SCORES AND IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE BREED.

I NEVER SAID I HAD'NT BRED HER BEFORE AS I OBVIOUSLY HAVE. I AM JUST STARTING OUT IN THE BREED REALLY AND THIS WAS MY FIRST OWN LITTER AND NOW I AM DECIDING THAT SHOULD I WANT TO DO THIS AGAIN AND BETTER THE BREED I WILL GET HIP SCORES FOR BOTH MY DOGS.

TO THE SHOWING SIDE, IF YOU DIDNT REALISE IT IS ONLY JANUARY 08 AND AS SHE HAS DONE WELL AT A FEW LOCAL SHOWS LAST YEAR AND SOME FUN SHOWS AT THE RINGCRAFT. I WANT TO VENTURE OUT TO SOME CHAMP/OPEN SHOWS THIS YEAR AND SEE HOW SHE DOES NOW THE BREED HAS COME OFF THE IMPORT REGISTER BUT I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DUE TO LACK OF TIME SO ''I WILL TRY MY BEST TO SHOW HER IN 2008''

FORGIVE ME IF IM WRONG BUT ISNT HER HAVING A LITTER IN SEPT AND THEN HAVING A LITTER AGAIN IN SEPT THE FOLLOWING YEAR12 MONTHS IN BETWEEN BREEDING ON ALTERNATE SEASONS HAVING A SEASON IN BETWEEN???

BESIDES ALL THAT I DONT PLAN TO UNTIL DEC/JAN 09 NOW.

By LouiseDDB  Date 21.01.08 19:58 GMT
Hi
I am wanting to get my DDB's hip scored, but i am scared as i have heard of dogs having adverse affects to the anesthetic, could they be sedated instead???  my bitch has just turned 3 and my dog is 2 in march. I want to get them done for the good of the breed and i intend breed ruby in the future.

Any advice welcome

Thanks Louise

Perhaps I am reading things wrong  "i intend breed ruby in the future.".........

But you have already bred from her anyway haven't you? so why not be honest about things in the first place and then maybe you would earn a little more respect here!

There you are then, you're just about to embark on breeding dogs properly ......well done.

Between you and me.... a number of us have been a bit of a plonker when we start out at anything new and all the good folks on this forum are just trying to help you (and your dogs) in making as few mistakes as possible. 
There....... you can take your cap lock off now and use the forum for all the stuff you'll need to know if this is YOUR start in breeding dogs.
Many of us are not just starting out so there is a weath of experience at your fingertips.... calm down and play nicely now.

Yes that didnt mean i hadnt bred her in the past, i just plan to now and only with her being scored. Didnt realise i had to earn respect thought it would come as politeness from being one human being to another.

Of course you have to earn respect!! You will find this more so if you are planning to move within dog circles, respect isn't something that is automatically given it has to be earnt.
Anyway, that aside you never mentioned within your posts that you had bred your bitch before, just that you planned to in the future which reads to me and possibly others, that you had never bred her before!

You seem much nicer in lower case.....

Stick with it (the forum I mean) it could help you in the long run.
May I ask... was your mum involved in the last mating and are now you embarking on this alone.. just a hunch.

My ex partners family got me into the breed, they know Ann Sutton (well known breeder) very well and i have met her afew times and her Dogues. They had a bitch and had a litter from her and Anns Bair i helped out alot and i loved it, they kept a male from the litter and he was great.

So i decided after alot of research to buy my own puppy. He was great and i love the breed, someone i know told be that they hadnt the time for their girl anymore, i had met her many times and she was lovely and got on well with my dog. So unplanned i took her and i never looked back, she had her first litter and i did everything myself and i loved every minute of it again. I decided i would like to do this as a hobby, so here i am now getting her scored and my boy so i can do it properly.

Please do not use capital letters in the cyber world it is seen as shouting and is very hard to read.  Thank you

LouiseDDB

Good luck in the future and please keep asking questions, it's the only way to learn.
Do the best you can for your dogs and be careful about bringing puppies into this world, their little lives and their whole future depends on decisions you make now. This includes the health of parents, the temperament of both and the sort of people you entrust the little puppies lives to.
From your own experience you know that big strong breeds get into the wrong hands and can often be chucked away like rubbish. Good for you for taking on your girl but please don't expect her to repay you too much.

> Yes that didnt mean i hadnt bred her in the past, i just plan to now and only with her being scored. Didnt realise i had to earn respect thought it would come as politeness from being one human being to another.

Good on you Gal! we all live & learn,it seems you want to improve what you do next time,which is surely what this board is all about, educating & breeding better dogs to ethical standards! Good luck on your search for the perfect Hubby for Ruby,I dont know much about Dogues ,only about collies,so im not much help in that department!

i will just add here how much i enjoyed your website, its clear from that to me that although just starting out that you have a passion & a interest in the breed. :)

Hi thanks i really do, but first and foremost they are my pets and family members.

My mum and gran bred working collies for there farm for over 15 years, my grans last one from back then died last year at 17, she has a new puppy now called Toddy.

Good on you Gal!

Good on her for what? A trainee vet nurse breeding from a dog without being scored? Am I missing something here? She should have improved what she did the first time around!!  These larger breeds can suffer with so many problems!

I have only just started on my training within the last couple of weeks, and what is your big problem i accept that i should have scored her before and whats done is done it was a mistake but i am now not going tp breed with either of my dogs without scoring them first ok. Now get over it

I don't have a problem, so do you plan to heart test and elbow score too?

Mollmoo,

Surely you are going over old ground?

  "top -breedname---"  ?  is this an affix?  

No, just interested I know some breeders of Dogues, heart test, eye test, and hip/elbow score their dogs.

but please if the KC say its OK to breed every 6 months whos to say this is wrong.

The KC also says you can register pups from a 12 month old bitch, and not many would agree that was right....

Why are you a little surprised at my website name??????????? What on earth it wrong with calling my website that???

No it isnt a affix but if and when i do apply for one i will try with it and see what the kennel club says.

> Good on her for what? A trainee vet nurse breeding from a dog without being scored? Am I missing something here? She should have improved what she did the first time around!!  These larger breeds can suffer with so many problems!

for learning from what she has done & moving forward, to listening & learning. what would you have me do ?you cant undo what is done, we can only move onwardss

I just was a bit confused when I saw it. I thought at first glance it was the top breeder in the breeds site.

Being honest it is something I would change immediately I can't see that going down too well in an breed.  Even if you didn't mean it or see where I am coming from it could be a little misleading.

honestly, this is starting to sound like an attack.  I know, if I was new, and didnt know most of you all, I would think this was attacking the OP.

She agrees she has made mistakes, and is CORRECTING them for future litters.  The first time hip scores were mentioned, was ok, its advice.  But when the OP states that she has made mistakes, and is going to hipscore, show, and all the necessary things needed to be a responsible breeder, and yet is continuely critisized for previous actions (which she admits, was a mistake) then that is attacking her.

Come on CD'ers.........dont you think the point of Health Testing the bitch and stud has been covered over the last posts (basically every single one since the post started). 

(dont get me wrong, I believe in health testing, but how about reading the OP and answering what she asked, instead of continueing to judge her based on a mistake that she admits to.)

Just shoot me and have done with it, i am obviously not worth my pound of flesh.

Louise,

You have said in previous posts that you plan to hipscore your girl from now on, we all make mistakes it is how we learn from them that determines what sort of person we are. You obviously love the breed so I would ignore comments that are continually covering old ground and just take advice from the more experienced people who are happy to guide you forward ;-)

Excellent post Crespin. That has just saved me a few pms.

I give up!
The importance of health tests to me are paramount, whether I be breeding from a bitch or purchasing another puppy, I've been with a breed very much like the Dogue De Bordeaux for many, many years. It may come across as a personal attack, but it is certainly not intended that way. For someone who seems to have invested an awful amount of time in creating a website regarding their dogs, I would have thought it would be within their best interests to go about things correctly before entering into breeding their dogs, so questions and eyebrows wouldn't be raised.

On the first page after a few responses the 7th post i think it is i said i was going to get her scored before this planned mating late 2008. But yet after all this i have still been attacked.

Also after all this my post has been the most popular on the site for a whole week!!!! and not for good reasons.

I think you time would have been better spent helping those in need with sick dogs and poorly puppies. Than slandering me and my stock and the name i call me website.

Pfft ive had enough, but to those few that have understood sent me PMs with kindwords and forgiving and forgetting THANKS, and thanks for those who have put kind word into the post you have said somethings better than i could have for not being able to think straight, for the confusion of me now trying to do something right. My De Lorean isnt working so whats done is done

And my website name is a play on words, ever heard of topcat?? its similar to that, i think you are the only person who will think of it like that, i have had that as my website name for 3 years and it was just to show people my dogs and info about the breed, before i even thought about breeding. Alot of my doggy friends know me by this and the litter that i have sold. so i wont change it.

Time to finally lock this thread. We are starting to go around in circles here.

Some good advice has been given and hopefully taken.

And I have had the last word :-)