£450.00 for a Chihuahua x pug, do people really pay this for a cross bred puppy, if they do they must need their heads examining.

Where have all the smilies gone, or do you have to put your own in now. :)

Sadly the saying is so true

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

About 7 years ago our then nextdoor neighbour paid @ £350 for a BullmastiffXRottweiler - he could have had a  nice pedigree pup for a little more :rolleyes:

£450 is quite cheap for a cross breed when you look on a certain website. I can't believe people actually pay the prices that they ask for cross breeds.

Dont want to be a "black catter"  (i.e. my black cats blacker than your) but i saw an ad in my local paper that will take some beating, "tea cup size yorkshire terrier cross puppies, £750)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a lady book a golden pup off me a while back, only to cancel because she found a golden doodle which she liked. On asking how much she was paying for it just for my own curiosity, i nearly choked when she said £800..................its beyond me that someone would pay such money for a mongrel!!!!

Maybe it had golden b*lls ? :-D :-D :-D

Its all right advertising them for this price, but i wonder if they actually sell them.?

There seems to be a lot of people who feel they are getting a rare new breed and therefore have to pay these high prices.  The fact that the price is so high convinces them that they have a pedigree dog! :( 

A lady admired Fred in P-A-H . She stroked him and made a fuss and said "oh isnt isnt he lovely?" to which i smiled politely then she said "i prefer his cousins myself the labradoodles" My face must have said it all, because she looked at me and i said "well if you like a common crossbreed thats fine. I prefer proper KC registered pedigrees myself" and walked off. I could have had a rant about the idiots that cross dogs and produce cockapoos/labradoodles/all the other combinations that seem to be appearing, but i couldn't be bothered to talk to someone like her!!!

Totally agree. I've had people mistake Polo both as a scruffy pup and adult in show trim for a labramongrel(as the poodle people sometimes put it). I think if they want a cross for a pet, fine, but dont pretend its a breed and dont charge extortionate prices for it. And why not give a home to a rescue? But I have nothing against mongrels and crosses, I've met tons of lovely ones.

They must be selling them at the ridiculous prices as its becoming more and more common. People are obviously prepared to pay them. I got my girl cheaper than some of the crossbreeds I have seen. I recently saw husky cross malamutes for £900 and they seem to regularly sell for £700 plus! I could find a KC reg pedigree husky or malamute for less than that - and it would be from a reputable breeder!

It's quite funny actually, I just saw a litter of Pug/Shih Tzu cross pups being sold for £500 when I know for a fact that a nice KC reg Shih Tzu pup will cost you around £400 - £600! :)  How stupid can you be??

Arrr...'weimardoodles' they look kinda cute but imagine their temperaments. Would be a real handful at adolescence!!! Well standards are very bouncy, and weimaraners are said to be really highly strung!! Not as scary as the Standards cross rotts advertised a while back tho'! And standards cross St.Bernards... insane, I've seen those advertised as well! A huge, super intelligent, bouncy, slobberer.With a coat that sheds but may need trimming. Not for a novice owner, methinks!

I agree Polo there is nothing wrong with crosses they can make lovely family pets. What is wrong is giving them a fancy name and charging top prices. 14 and a half years ago my grandma got a border collie x lab at a working farm for £15. Dad was the working sheep dog and mum was the family pet. She has lead a healthy and happy life and apart from recent age realted health problems shes still going strong. My Grandma knew exactly what she was getting, certainly did not pay a top price and has had a great companion and pet. A prime example of a cross breed - not one of these so called new 'must have' breeds.

Oh, I agree, Pinkbrady. Its sad people are using my breed and its name as a marketing ploy. They're such lovely dogs, not accesory's or toys. And they do need training and plenty of exercise which because of  (sometimes) its public view people might not realize, for some reason.

>Dont want to be a "black catter"  (i.e. my black cats blacker than your) but i saw an ad in my local paper that will take some beating, "tea cup size yorkshire terrier cross puppies, £750)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what did they cross it with - a hamster?

About an hour away from me someone continually breeds and sells labradoodles (!) for £950....crazy!

Dont know what they crossed it with, it didn't say. Maybe it was an "accident" and they dont know either.  I totally agree that crosses can be lovely. If someone wants a cross then go down the RSPCA. You can get some lovely animals, not pay a ridiculous price and best of all, you're doing a good thing by giving a dog a home. You're also not putting money into the hands of these so called "breeders"
Polo:cant believe someone thought he was a scruffy pup. How rude!!!

I saw recently an ad for shih-tzu x poodles (shih-poo's apparently) for 950 pounds each!!! The picture (all with red bows in there hair) indicated that there were 6 in the litter, the ad said they had two left! So, yes people are paying big money for them. :-(

Yes - they are mad!  Who in their right mind would pay more for a cross-bred dog than a top class pedigree dog - people with more money than sense and/or have to have the designer dog of the season.  I just wonder this time next year how many poodle cross type dogs will be in rescue centres.
Also the ones that I have seen crossed with a poodle look so scruffy - they must need trimming to some degree - this takes not only time but money again - I'm sure the new owners are not aware of this when they purchase a puppy.

I agree Ells-Bells, they make out the coats are poodles - non moulting, but thats a bit of a swizz. The coats look scruffy and not true poodle coats;its not a true representaiton of a poodle. And also i dont think they should guarantee they are non moulting because the fur on them is very strange, not a typical bichon or poodle coat.

We were discussing the stupid names they make up for mongrels the other day. We laughed over what our breed crossed with poodles would be called "mas-poo"!!!!!!:-D

Shouldn't laugh really, I'll probably see them advertised next week.

Some people actually call their crosses Bugs!!! Poor dogs.

There is someone in the  West Country breeding Sharlanders.   Large Munsterlanders x Shar Pei and selling them for over £500.  I have my doubts as to whether the sire is a LM, too many people see a leggy, spaniely type dog and jump to the wrong conclusion.   But both breeds can be a bit headstrong as adolescents, SP are wanderers and LM's can be chasers - a fine X indeed!   :-(

A neighbour said their sister was thinking of buying a labradoodle puppy for £800. eek They're all so different I pointed out they wouldn't know what it would end up like. She mentioned health too; hmm, the one labradoodle a dog walker takes out is 3, has terrible arthritis, bad hips and chronic eye infections. :( People just don't get the genetics required for hybrid vigour. (and it's not by crossing two dogs that carry the genes for the same diseases!) I then told her how much less I paid for my pedigree dogs from a responsible breeder and health tested parents.

> And standards cross St.Bernards... insane, I've seen those advertised as well! A huge, super intelligent, bouncy, slobberer.With a coat that sheds but may need trimming. Not for a novice owner, methinks! <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

oh the horror! that sounds terrifying its giant dribbly poodle!!!

I have no problem with crossbreeds (have two of them myself), I have not even got a problem if they charge a lot of money for them... they are worth as much as any pedigree... they are all dogs (and yes, we have two pedigrees too, one of which bought as a puppy) and worth as much as each other! I have never understood why a pedigree should be worth more or less than a crossbreed... a dog is a dog is a dog and a living being.

However, what I do have a problem with is "breeders" giving wrong information to potential buyers (as to type of coat, pedigree etc.) and I have a big problem with breeding from parents that are NOT health tested.

So if someone breeds labradoodles by chosing the parents carefully, making sure that they have had all the relevant health tests for their breed (and probably for the other breed too as you don't want to combine faults) and if they give all the correct information to potential puppy buyers, then I can't see why they shouldn't charge the same as pedigree dogs! They would go through the same expenses and efforts as a pedigree breeder.

After all, many if not most breeds were at some point crossbreeds, look at the doberman, eurasier (mentioned on the forum recently), st. bernard etc. So developping new breeds is not something new and is something that will always happen. New breeds are developped (just as they were in the old days) to satisfy a demand for a specific look or specific working abilities or specific temperament traits. There's nothing wrong with that as long as the dogs don't suffer from it (e.g. fashion looks like tea cup sizes are - in my opinion - wrong).

Vera

I have to agree with Vera on this one.

I have rescue crossbreed dogs, and they are priceless to me!

I imagine the money charged goes towards health testing for both the parent breeds, careful rearing of puppies, the problem of finding good homes (perhaps more difficult for dogs that attract the wrong people?) etc, just as it does for good breeders.

Some crosses I strongly disagree with (ones that are crossed for a cute name, of very different breeds like puggles for example) but generally, if dogs are bred because they have good temperaments and are healthy, surely that's a good thing?

I would much rather a carefully bred labradoodle (and yes, I know there are puppy farmers but there are also people who care deeply about the dogs they breed) than Mr and Mrs Bloggs who mate their pedigree pet dog to their friends dog of the same breed because they are both 'nice'.

>So if someone breeds labradoodles by chosing the parents carefully, making sure that they have had all the relevant health tests for their breed (and probably for the other breed too as you don't want to combine faults) and if they give all the correct information to potential puppy buyers, then I can't see why they shouldn't charge the same as pedigree dogs! <

I have no problems with cross breeds either. We've had some great ones in my family. But, I've never heard of a breeder producing cross breeds with trendy names doing any health tests, vetting owners carefully and taking them back should the owners ever need to rehome the dog. Also that particular litter I mentioned was being sold for 200 more than a pedigree lab; this wasn't someone trying to better a breed or produce healthy pups. This was someone who wanted to make money by selling a 'Top Gear' dog. I do have problems with that.

Have only just learned that one of the most high profile breeders in the toy group is selling poo-chons :( :( :(  Including letting 2 littermates go to the same buyer.  Claimed it was an accident but why then the "name"? why the price point? (not as extortionate as some at £400 but a lot for an accidental cross!) and why, for the welfare of these pups no background checks or in depth interview of any buyers - just phone, hand over the money, and goodbye :(

Strangely enough when a friend of the purchaser who supposedly bought the last 2 phoned the breeder looking for one he was told another one had become avaiable due to late cancellation :(  yeah, right!

i do agree that cross breeds shoud have relevant health test, etc. Unfortuntely most of these crossbreeds (yorkie-poos-labradoodles etc) are because people wanna jump on the band wagon and make a quick buck, i.e. i have a poodle, my mate has a labrador - hey labradoodles are the in thing at the mo, lets breed them, few months later get rid of them to whoever and make ourselves a lot of money. very few breed them responsibly lets be honest. such a shame :-(

> New breeds are developped (just as they were in the old days) to satisfy a demand for a specific look or specific working abilities or specific temperament traits.

i quite agree with you, i've no problem with folk developing a new breed for something, but most of these dogs are not being bred for anything but profit... the main selling point for a labradoodle is supposed to be it's hypoallergenic coat yes? but they don;t all have one, its no something that can be relied upon throughout the breed. Its an excuse to make money out of gullible people and has no consideration of the dogs.

as you say if the pups were responsibly bred with the intention of a certain trait/temprament etc then why not, my breed were originally, as was every other breed, but thats not really the case with this.

Unfortuntely most of these crossbreeds (yorkie-poos-labradoodles etc) are because people wanna jump on the band wagon and make a quick buck,

But surely that's exactely the same with purebreeds/pedigrees? How many of all the rotties, staffies, GSD, labradors, terriers etc. are from really good responsible breeders? Many (if not most) come from backyard breeders and puppy farms and so called hobby breeders that simply breed to earn a quick buck too!

I have been looking for a mini poodle puppy/dog for many months now, and although I have found one or two excellent breeders that health test etc., 90% of people I contact have not had their dogs health tested because "they are only pet dogs". One person even responded to me that I must be a dealer or breeder to want a puppy from health tested parents... What on earth is all that about?

My experience seems to be that the vast majority of people breeding (pedigrees or crossbreeds) out there are in it for the money, not for the love of their breed to produce healthy and happy puppies! And that is worrying...!

Vera

> But, I've never heard of a breeder producing cross breeds with trendy names doing any health tests, vetting owners carefully and taking them back should the owners ever need to rehome the dog.

I have. I don't think they're the ones that advertise in local papers, but I 'know' (via the internet) a couple of people who breed these crosses adn they do all of that.

I know the dogs don't all have non-shedding coats, which was what they were originally bred for, but there is no reason that that can't be bred for surely? Everyone is different, if someone likes labradoodles because they look like scruffy, hairy labs, then that's fine.

As long as breeders are honest about what the pups could turn out like (and many are, though admittedly not all) then what does it matter what somebody chooses to pay?

I do agree there is a problem with puppy farmers, as there are with a lot of breeds.

i think your right, if they want to pay that for what suits them go ahead, plenty people think what my dogs cost is mad (then expalined how much breeding actually costs if done right and they understood). sadly i think it's definately the minority.

From what I've seen, I think that sadly, responsible breeders in all breeds are in the minority.

Each to their own I think, I mean we all have our preferred breeds or cross breeds - what ever happened to the term Heinz 57 not heard that for many years!?

The problem I have are health and temperment issues with these manufactured 'breeds'. You only have too look though Exchange & Mart each week to see the latest invention for sale at stupid prices. Some times the sellers can't even be arsed to get the names of the breeds they are crossing right!

I look at the site daily and often it is the same people offering a different creation often with the sales pitch of 'one off breeding, not to be bred again etc' or some other 'unique' catchprase.

Seen Akita+Rotties, Bullmastiff+Rotties, Staff+Rotties, Cane Corso and Presa crosses (the latest must haves) various Bulldog 'breeds', poodle hybrids.

Whilst there are demand, idiots will produce them.

Some of the crosses are very dangerous I believe.

I know what you mean Vera, there are alot of irresponsible "breeders". Unfortunately people buying puppies aren't always so well informed and hence they buy the puppies from these people which means they keep breeding. In hind sight im not very impressed with the breeder i got my dog from but we live and learn. It's the people that own 2 breeds and decide to breed them then charge ridiculous money without bothering about health tests or even knowing the slightest bit about breeding or the lifetime responsibility it should hold. I'm not getting at all breeders but just when you look in the newspaper and see the latest crazy breed that i think "oh no another one".

I've also seen people advertising pure breeds that can't spell the breed. Plenty of alsatians, dalmations, golden labradors etc. Best not mention shih tzus!!

I think the conclusion we can draw is that people can be awful :-(

Lets not forget, too that many of our old breeds are dying out. I cant think of a reason to introduce ANY of these designer dogs, as there is already a breed out there to serve every purpose I can think of.

But why are the old breeds dying out? Surely it's because there is no need for the jobs they were meant to do?

I think pet is actually one of the hardest jobs a dog can do, and I don't see a problem with people breeding for that purpose IF they do it responsibly with all the right health checks and temperament etc.

Many of the endangeredbreeds make wonderful pets and have filled that role quite happily for many years before the "poo" dogs came along.

By LurcherGirl Date 24.01.08 14:26 GMT > I have been looking for a mini poodle puppy/dog for many months now, and although I have found one or two excellent breeders that health test etc., 90% of people I contact have not had their dogs health tested because "they are only pet dogs".

This would not be the reply you would get from a breeder belonging to their breed club.  Please contact them for a list of reputable breeders.

Re the topic.  Yes there are huge numbers of irresponsibly bred pedigrees and in the past mongrels accidentally.  But why would a responsible person breed crossbreeds, in most cases they a re not trying for a breed they are first crosses of a handy dog and handy bitch.

Many of the crosses are of totally incompatible breeds.  Imagine the problems for a St Bernard size dog with a  Poodle temperament and lively nature?  A beagle hunting drive in a pups with pug characteristics?

With the Lurchers for example and some Gundog crosses the breeder is seeking to combine the traits of two breeds with more specialised talents.  so your whippet and terrier your hoping for speed and terrier tenacity and both have hunting ability, you would also be using dogs that excelled at this purpose.  similar with springer Cross Lab, dogs that combined the work of both breeds and that were less specialised as to manner of work and terrain.

Look at any pet classifieds and that is not what your seeing and one in a million mentions health, except to imply hybrid vigour.

> But why are the old breeds dying out? Surely it's because there is no need for the jobs they were meant to do?
>

Curly coated retriever and Irish water spaniel both gun dogs like the Labrador and like the poodle originally was and still can be.  Both endangered, both breed true with hypoallergenic coats. 

So why are people trying to re-invent the wheel, or is that just the excuse, as they would have a job to churn those out as the foundation stock would be hard to come by from the largely ethical breeders of these less well known breeds.  There is a fashion for Chihuahuas, but again demand outstrips supply, so the band waggon merchants are crossing them with any small breed, especially ones with fewer whelping difficulties and larger litters.

The public are taken in as the majority hardly know any breed not in the top 20 registration stats and the common non registered types like Jack Russell's and Lurchers.

From abroad you have the Lagotta and the Spanish water dog that fit the bill nicely, and for those wanting a small pet only curly, what is wrong with a  Bichon?

For those breeding Pug cross Cavaliers, whats wrong with the King Charles (another rare breed) has the short muzzle that I assume is the point of that cross.  Other low number toy breeds (i.e. simply pets) English Toy Terrier, Min Pin, Lowchen, and probably loads more.

I once asked a lady that had bought a labradoodle why she had paid £650 for was what was really a x breed. she looked surprized and said yes I supose it is.  Shealso said that a breeder in wales was spaying the pups B4 they left her.! (monopoly on breeding?)  Also the WORST casting dog ever at my training classes was.....the Labradoodle.   I actually like the labradoodle, but it is not the dog for everyone, they are very headstrong, easy does it with them, you have to work along side them...

Its true about the spaying, a friend of a friend paid £1,200 for her poodle x lab and it was neutered/spayed (cant remember if it was a dog or bitch!) at 6 weeks old, apparantly its kinder that way - how putting a 6 week old pup through that is kind I will never know !!

> So why are people trying to re-invent the wheel

to make money of course!

your so right about the breeds we do have, you can select for pretty much anything and get healthy, good tempramented dogs.

I don't know why people would choose a labradoodle over an irish water spaniel to be honest, or a wirehaired dog which looks similar. But then I don't know why people would choose an english setter over an irish setter for example. People all have different tastes.

I don't think a spanish water dog or a lagotta are similar to the smaller poodle crosses (they both ahve a strong guarding instinct don't they?)

I think bichon's are fantastic, much better for people than a poodle crossed with another toy breed, but they're also suffering as a result of puppy farms and dodgy breeders.

I disagree wtih irresponsible breeders of all dogs, and it upsets me that there are so many of them.

I think the problem is more than what breeds make up puppies, but it's a problem with people seeing dogs as status symbols. A lot of people who see dogs in that way are just as likely to be attracted to a rare breed as they are a made up one.

I've had a look at labradoodle rescue as well, it seems a very small number of dogs end up there, almost exclusively from 'breeders' who sell them as hypoallergenic (as if any breed is!). From my experience they do seem to come out from the wrong upbringing relatively unscathed.

There is a current fashion near me for patterdale terriers, I must admit that worries me more.

i have no problems with cross breeds either but i do find a problem with the amount some people charge for them, yes at the end of the day a dog is a dog but most cross bred dogs are just an accidental mating or people just breeding anything to anything or to make money from the latest fashion. good breeders of pedigree dogs put so much time,effort,money, have spent alot of time and energy reasearching bloodlines  teir chosen breed to do the best for their breed and there are alot of amazing people out there that i really admire for their achievments and then some one comes along and buys a dog breeds it to any breed doesnt reasearch lines to see do they match,doesnt care if the dog/bitch are suitable for each other and bam years of hard work, time and money down the s*itter for nothing

> I don't think a spanish water dog or a lagotta are similar to the smaller poodle crosses (they both ahve a strong guarding instinct don't they?)
>

Not as far as I know both are in the gundog group, being gundog/waterdog types

Lagotta standard:
Characteristics Ancient Italian breed of duck retriever, also used as a truffle hunter. Excellent watch dog and family companion.

Temperament  Lively, intelligent, affectionate.
Characteristics
A herding, hunting and fishing dog with well developed sense of smell, sight and sound. Has great learning capability and adapts to almost all situations.

Temperament
Faithful, obedient, brave, good tempered and gay.

My own breed are excellent watchdogs as are most toy breeds but none of them guards.

Spanish waterdog standard: