Please can someone give me some advice my eldest dog has just bitten my daughter!

It was unprovoked she was sitting next to him. He has been a bit strange with her beforehand and wouldn't let her on the bed with us but then she was happily sitting next to him. Her arm is swollen where he has bitten her! :-(

[Admin: **Please note (for clarity) that this is not the same dog that 'snapped' at her daughter at the new year]

OOh dear.

Have you any idea why he was Strange with her beforehand? Had she done something to upset him earlier? Very unusual dogs bite for no reason, is he feeling ok your dog?

Hi,
I hope your daughter is ok and not too frightened.
Have you separated them? Has your daughter had a tetanus recently?
I would keep the dog away from any children, take him to the vet just incase there's something wrong.
Is this the same staff that bite your daughter at new year? I'm hoping this little girl hasn't now been bitten by two different family Staffs. How old is the dog? and is he castrated?

Is this the same staff that bite your daughter at new year?

Our staff doesn't live with us and she didn't actually bite my daughter just snapped, which we think after all the advice was just her way of saying she didn't like the party blower. Sorry I just want to set the record straight

My daughter hasn't been around him alone all day, he is an 11 month old uncastrated male cavalier. It is so out of character for him, he isn't unwell and it was completely unprovoked! I am even more shocked as he didn't growl or give any warning!

No my daughter hasn't had her tetanus jab she is only 3.

He is shut in our kitchen at the moment waiting for my husband to get home to discuss what to do. :-(

Thinking about it, would the first nip on the face have been the warning bite for her not to sit on the bed and the second proper bite been the one because she was sitting on the bed?

I don't know what to do, the vets have no advice other than to contact them if we want him destroyed!

From looking at your other posts - havent you just got another dog?  Was that puppy anywhere around? Could your other dog have been wound up by the pup (maybe jumping on him and biting him?) and just jumped onto the bed for some peace and quiet maybe and your daughter could have startled him?  Also has your pup still got a funny tum? could your other dog be suffering from that too and be feeling a bit under the weather?  Cavvies dont normally bite unless there is a big problem. (Ive had them for ten years).

Hi,
I'm sorry you must be in quite a state.

> would the first nip on the face have been the warning bite

Yes.
Is it your bed or the dog's bed they were sitting on?
At 11 months he is getting to sexual maturity, castration often calms them down.
Have you had him to socialistion classes? Trying to think of things to help you. Hoping someone else will join to give you advise.
Sorry there is nothing a vet can do, but you could consult an animal behavourist.

Puppy was downstairs asleep. No startling she had been sitting there for at least 5 mins before he turned around and snapped. No pups tum is on the mend. He had been to the vets today for a check up and was fine????

I know that cavvies don't bite people normally which is why we chose them as a breed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is normally very good natured, a bit excitable but never ever aggressive!

Edited to say - he has been to socialistion classes and regularly meets and greets people and other dogs, Yes I am in a state! :-(

It is always very unusual for a dog of good character to suddenly bite for real, but there is always a reason for it.

Dogs do not look upon young children as even their equals they are no different to young pups to a dog and a dog may treat a child the same way it would treat a pup, an adult dog will nip, growl and even bite a young pup to get the desired action it wants.  As children grow older and if they treat a dog well, the dog will then learn to respect a child, but young children have no authority whatsoever which is why a good calm breed is needed with young children.......... which you have done. :-)  Unfortunately as you have now witnessed even in your careful choice it can still go wrong and your dog for whatever reason perhaps even jealousy and wanting some time with you alone has basically told your daughter in his way to go away.

Something has bothered or upset him, it may be his hormones, a high pitched voice from your child, a grumpy day, or he just is not feeling himself.

I wouldn't jump the gun and have him pts, but try to work out what is upsetting him, perhaps a vet check to make sure he has no ear infection, stomach problem etc, in the meantime keep the dog away from your child, make him sit on your side or not in the same room at all.  Watch his body language closely, tail down is an immediate sign, the slightest growl, put him out of the room. Be stern with him and make sure anymore of this type of behaviour is unacceptable, your daughter obviously comes first and needs to be safe in her own home.

Can you define as best you can,  He has been a bit strange with her beforehand perhaps we can work out what is triggering this behaviour. :-)

Can you define as best you can,  He has been a bit strange with her beforehand perhaps we can work out what is triggering this behaviour. 

Yes he snapped and bit her face when she wanted to get on the bed with us

I wouldn't jump the gun and have him pts

Not something we would even consider we love him too much

but there is always a reason for it

I agree with that , I just don't know what the reason is :-(

Hi,
Yes your right Cavies are good family pets.
It is rare that a well bred and well socilised puppy bites for no reason.

You say the puppy was asleep on the puppies bed. There may be the reason!!!!

All dogs need their own space where it be a cage or a bed. If a dog is asleep you should leave it alone. Puppies sleep very deep and it might be your daughter did startle it.
If the puppy was ok why did you take him to the vet?
Trying to help

Yes he snapped and bit her face when she wanted to get on the bed with us


This sounds territorial to me, the moment he did that I would have had him off the bed so quick his feet wouldn't have touched the ground and brought my daughter on the bed to replace him. You need to show him that she is your 'pup' and will be guarded by you just as fiercely.

> Thinking about it, would the first nip on the face have been the warning bite for her not to sit on the bed and the second proper bite been the one because she was sitting on the bed?>
> I don't know what to do, the vets have no advice other than to contact them if we want him destroyed!

I presume firstly that you were present & saw exactly what happened. Cavaliers can & do bite, but they should have a soft mouth(I know mine have)& not draw blood.& would normally give a growl warning

Can I get the scenario correct the dog was on the bed, was it your bed or your daughter's ? He bit once on the face before she got on the bed & then again when she got on the bed  ?  How long was there between each"bite" & did you do anything inbetween ? If not why not ?

She has two puppies the older one was the one that bit, the younger one was asleep elswhere.

It is rare that a well bred and well socilised puppy bites for no reason.

So you are saying that my dog is either bad breeding or I am a crap owner?

You say the puppy was asleep on the puppies bed. There may be the reason!!!!

All dogs need their own space where it be a cage or a bed. If a dog is asleep you should leave it alone. Puppies sleep very deep and it might be your daughter did startle it.

HE wasn't asleep HE was on MY bed and THE NEW PUPPY was asleep in his OWN bed downstairs so he wasn't even around!????

I took my dog to the vets for a check up which we do every year!!!

Have I got this right? The dog bit when he was on your bed and your daughter wanted to come on, and he bit when he was on the chair/sofa beside your daughter?

If that's the case then it's clear to me that he should never be allowed on your furniture - it's a dog bed or the floor for him!

I presume firstly that you were present & saw exactly what happened. Cavaliers can & do bite, but they should have a soft mouth(I know mine have)& not draw blood.& would normally give a growl warning

Yes I was on the bed (my bed), he didn't growl but we think the first bite was his warning. Don't get me wrong her arm isn't hanging off he pierced the skin where I guess his sharp teeth (i'm sorry i don't know the correct term) caught her.

Can I get the scenario correct the dog was on the bed, was it your bed or your daughter's ? He bit once on the face before she got on the bed & then again when she got on the bed  ?  How long was there between each"bite" & did you do anything inbetween ? If not why not ?

My bed, yes once on the face (which was just a nip) when she tried to get on the bed (as if he was guarding his territory) then I told him a firm "NO" then took him off the bed, she was then sitting on the bed he jumped back on sat next to her they were sitting there for about 5 mins and he turned around and bit her arm.

Please can I ask everyone for helpful advice and not criticism as I don't feel I deserve it, our dog is well socialised loved and treated as part of our family, he has never behaved in this way before. We would never get him put to sleep we just want to know whether we should be really concerned and the next steps. The behaviour person we know will suggest he is neutured!

> Puppy was downstairs asleep. No startling she had been sitting there for at least 5 mins before he turned around and snapped.

Sorry I'm trying to help. You wrote the puppy was asleep, so was your daughter sitting by a sleeping puppy?

I'm saying puppies don't normally bite without a reason and i'm trying to understand what happened.

You said you have been to the vets today. You say the puppy had bite your daughters face was this before or after the vets.
I know this is upsetting.

2 different puppies :)

It sounds like he has gotten above himself and thinks he is entitled to more privileges than your daughter who he views as a sibling or rival, who has lost her puppy license and will from now be subject to discipline by her betters (him).  It could be the result of bringing in the new puppy which may have brought hierarchy issues into focus before he is quite ready to deal with being higher ranking than anyone. A bit like a prefect or deputy boss abusing their perceived authority.

Of course it still could be that he is suffering from pain (ear infections can get quite bad and the dog not show it, my poor Lexi had one last year,a nd when the Vet examined her she screamed th place down, but at home the only sign was her being inclined to keep herself to herself more.

He warned her to stay off the bed, and she didn't listen so he escalated to a harder bite.

It will help if he is made to understand as someone else said that she is of a higher status than he is.  The easiest way to ensure this is that the pups are not allowed on the furniture or in your bedrooms, that is your children's privilege. they do not share cuddles with you and the kids but are sent to their beds when you are having her on your bed, sofa lap etc.  Basically the pups have no opportunity to be in competition with your daughter.

To raise her status in their eyes you might like to include her in their feeding.  You train them to sit and she puts their bowls down.  Also in case the pups get defensive of their space due to worry of being hurt etc, you must ensure she never ever picks them up, and does not disturb them when resting or eating.  She should also not pet them unless they come to her for attention, never follow them to pet them.  Obviously you will supervise so a petting session could start with you having a pot of treats, your daughter call the pups, you give her a treat to give them when they perform an action like sit or down.

Hi satincollie

> 2 different puppies :-) <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

Sorry didn't realise - two male cavi puppies - one 11 months.
If you don't intend to breed I'd still have puppy castrated and check for illness.
Sorry it's very confusing, just trying to help, dogs don't usually bite without a reason!

My dogs don't go on the bed or the furniture.
Hope the 3 year old's arms ok.

Thanks, I am sure you are right about him and his "status". I will try what you have suggested, will neuturing make any difference?

It's all a bit confusing but, from what I can make out, it would be in your family's best interests if neither dog was allowed on any furniture (sofa, beds, etc.).  This will require a good deal of retraining but it can be done.  They have their dog beds so they're not exactly forced to lie on cold stone (which is what the dogs will be trying to convey to you when you make them get off your furniture :-D ) but the dogs' beds should be s definite no go area for your child - whether they are on asleep on them or not.

See how it goes and best of luck.

Debs

Retraining isn't a problem, now I know which direction to go in I feel alot calmer. :-)

In Response to Angels2 , will neuturing make any difference?

In my opinion and observation Not in this issue as it isn't a sexually driven behaviour more a maturity issue and castrating will interfere with the maturity. 

The problem is that dogs just do not see small children as people, but more like themselves or in some cases even prey, and of course the child does not understand the warnings being given (the being funny beforehand) which are given in 'dog language' not in 'baby or human language'. 

This leads to unfortunate misunderstandings.  An older dog, or an older child will both be more expereinced at reading the other animal, and fewer problems occur.

> My bed, yes once on the face (which was just a nip) when she tried to get on the bed (as if he was guarding his territory) then I told him a firm "NO" then took him off the bed, she was then sitting on the bed he jumped back on sat next to her they were sitting there for about 5 mins and he turned around and bit her arm.

> We would never get him put to sleep we just want to know whether we should be really concerned and the next steps. The behaviour person we know will suggest he is neutured!

Well you should have removed when he jumped up the second time as he clearly has issues with her being close to you on your bed.

It could be that you are not having as much one 2 one time with him now you have the other puppy & your daughter.

I know your daughter is only three but could you get her to put his food down for him ?(well both of you put the food down together) I would sit on the floor with him in front of you & your daughter by your side. If he knows the commands sit & down you can do some training with him & get your daughter to give him his rewards on the palm of her hand. You could make this his time with you & your daughter.

Does he like being brushed ? if so again you brush him & your daughter gives him treats. He will no longer see her as a rival for your attention, but as a reward giver.

As for castration it's not a cure all & certainly not a dog to human aggression solver, no matter the behaviourist says

Oh dear I'm so sorry to hear this!
Dont lose heart...you have some really good advice here regarding pecking order.
It needs firmness for the forseeable for both your boys, with clear rules, I hope your daughter is okay, it will have been a shock for her too.

Good luck and keep positive.
KAren :-)

Hi Angels2

I just wanted to say I really feel for you I know exactly how anxious you must be feeling and how upset.  I cant add any more advice to what you've been given I just hope that your daughter feels okay around him and not too scared,

Please give her a hug and a kiss from all here - and a gin and tonic for you!

best wishes

Maxine

Edited to add after seeing Moonmaidens comments re neutering not being the solution for dog to human aggression - I can fully vouch for that after battling with exactly that every day with a neutered male.

Angels, two go back to the vet side of things, has he had a fall lately, or a bad knock?  I'm wondering if there's a lingering ache that might have made him a bit grumpy.

I wouldn't necessarily blame that entirely for his behaviour, but it could play a part.

I'm thinking in terms of my own dog here, my oldest (a 6yr old dobe bitch) - when she came home she behaved like your boy on my bed and sofa, except a lot worse.  There was no sitting with her at all - she would just snap.  At the beginning you couldn't actually go through the doorway without her starting to growl.  I realised in the end that a large part of it was pain - her whole pelvis was rotated and her neck was sore (discovered via a chiropractor).  Sorted that and she improved immensely, and now I can stroke her and sit on the sofa with her when she's on it (couldn't do either before).  With her it's always been a mixture of 3 things - the pain, location resource guarding (i.e. wanting to keep 'her' spot on the bed/sofa) and distrust of me (she takes a while to trust new people and I've only had her a year).

I also wonder if the new pup is playing a part in this - you haven't had him long, have you?  Possibly the older cav is still adjusting and is a little short-tempered because of it.  When Soli (dog above) came home, she'd been alone from 9 weeks old and took around 4/5 months to get used to the other two (as there were then - with River it was about a week as she was used to living with other dogs by then).  She was very short-tempered with them during that adjustment period.

While I agree with those that have said your dog's behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, I would also exercise caution - take heed of his warnings and don't punish him beyond removing him from the bed, or he may well learn not to warn.  Soli was taught this - her warnings were VERY subtle-to-non-existant when she first came, and it took some time for a) me to learn the signals and b) her to learn to give more of them.  I wouldn't wish a non-warning dog on anyone!

It has got to be one of the most terrible nightmares you can have, to have your loved pet to bite and hurt your loved child. You need time to take all this in and weigh up the massive implications that have arisen as a result, then you can think straight. At the moment, your emotions must be all over the place and it's not the best time to make any choices or listen to to much advice, no matter how good intended. Remember though, the dog is still a youngster and things can be done, be it training, disipline or to re-home. The choices will be your, but at least you'll have some.
I hope things go well and perhaps your OH can throw some light and common sense on the subject, I know mine always does.

From what has been said, it sounds as if (if the dog is totally well) he was either stressed for some reason (puppy? children? just tossing out ideas...) or else may have been resource guarding the bed or yourself. If it is resource guarding then it is usually fairly easily solved.

It isn't always productive to tell the dog off...because, as you discovered, you told him No after the first time and he continued to show his discomfort in his own way later...telling off can make a dog not give warning, but bite instead. I never tell a dog off for growling - this is canine communication. Better a growling dog than one who doesn't do that and just goes for the bite.

I'd suggest seeing a behaviourist to be honest, because children are involved and it's simply easier to get a professiona in who can assess dog/environment, etc :)
But if you go down this route do be wary of using anyone, ensure they are reputable...try www.apbc.org.uk

Hth good luck

Lindsay
x

Are you sure that she hadn't leaned on his tail or some of his coat etc. which might have slightly pulled on him and woke him up?

I agree here with the dog that growls bit.   A dog that growls is telling you how he/she feels and a good indicator that something is wrong (providing that the dog in question is normally a good natured dog, i am not saying your dog is a bad natured dog here by the way) But please be carefull here as i have been in a position where my daughter was bitten (on the face and needed plastic surgeory, not by one of our dogs thankfully)and i can tell you it is not nice.... and i blamed myself even though she was not in my house when it happened.... but can only think of one more worst possible senario......    if it was in my house... then i would have felt a lot worse . Don't want to frighten you,(and sorry if this is no help) but get your boy checked out especially if he is usually good and close to your child.

Angels2

I'm very sorry to read of your upsetting occurence.
May I just add - that although cavaliers rarely bite, when they do mean it, they can make good job of it. They may be little but should have a good set of teeth..... so the good news is (IMHO) your little dog is not nasty nor turning nasty, this was yobbish behaviour meant as a communication or warning. If this were not the case you'd have seen a lot of blood. I'm not excusing his behaviour just trying to put it in perspective for you as I know you probably don't know what to think at the moment. With all the great advice on behaviour modification given in this thread I'm sure you'll weather this storm.
Best of luck to you and your family..... try to be positive.

To be honest, everyone can give you advice, but as we didnt see what happened and you yourself didnt see the signals and you didnt know why he bit, and it scared you, I think the best thing to do is go and see a behaviourist that can help you and to help you learn the signs to look for and not let it happen. Especially as you dont want to have togive another dog away because of this.
Good Luck
Lea :)

We have taken all the "useful and helpful" advice on board and he is fine today. It is very out of character for him and there was obviously a reason for it as I genuinely believe he loves our children. He will NOT be pts or rehomed and I have never even thought of this.

Especially as you dont want to have togive another dog away because of this.

Please can you pm me for the correct story as we have not "given away" any dog and I find this really hurtful :-(

Are you sure that she hadn't leaned on his tail or some of his coat etc. which might have slightly pulled on him and woke him up?

As you say this could have happened, it was totally out of character I certainly wouldn't say he was an aggressive dog. :-)

>Please can you pm me for the correct story as we have not "given away" any dog and I find this really hurtful 

And I apologise as thats not how I meant that to come across, and I regret that thats how it did. as I know the other dog is at your mums :)
What I mean is, having to make the decision that one dog cant be kept in your home must have been awful. So you wouldnt want to have to do it again.
Lea :) :)

By reading all the posts, I would honestly wonder what is truely going on.

By that I mean, a young child behaves differently than adults.  If this is the same child that was "snapped at" on New Years with the party blower (and please if I called it the wrong thing, dont be mad, you know what I am talking about) and then to be bite by another dog shortly after.

I AM NOT BLAMING YOUR CHILD.  But I would watch to see what interactions your child is having with the dogs.  Everyone, has suggested taking the dog to the vets to see what is wrong.  Maybe it isnt an illness, just a dog reacting to a child.

Is your house always busy?  Some dogs cant handle that. 

Does your child bounce around?  Has your child ACCIDENTALLY hurt the dog before (ie stepping on its tail or something)?  Could the dog feel that it needs to protect itself from this fast moving thing thats bigger (the child).

Again, no one is saying you are a crap owner, or that the child is abusive to dogs, or that the dog is vicious.  We are just trying to help you with your situation.  I personally would watch every interaction between dog and child.  It is uncommon for the same child to get snapped at/bitten, by two different dogs. 

Dogs and Children should never be around eachother unsupervised, no matter how "friendly" the dog.

Admin - please close thread

Locked it for you.

Hope you get to the bottom of this.  good luck.