Hi, a friend has asked me to find out about epilepsy in puppies. She has a cocker spaniel pup (12 weeks old). It had a fit last night at 10pm and again this morning at 9am. The pup shakes her head and foams at the mouth. They have been to the vet who said it may be epilepsy. The pup was very active prior to this. Does anybody know what could cause this? The owners are vehement that the puppy has not eaten anything strange but do admit that she is teething. Any advice gratefully recieved. I have to go to Winchester now but will be back tomorrow to check for replies. Thanks.

Sorry to hear about the pup and the troubles, horrible surprise.

I am no expert but I have loked up a bit of info for you - I expect other swill post from more experience.

I believe there are different causes of epilepsy, and also different types of epilepsy.

Primary epilepsy is thought to have a hereditary cause and it usually starts when a dog is between 12 and 24 months. fits can be "petit mal" which can be simply a mental absence, leg twitching or simply a bout of uncontrollable barking,; the "grand mal" fits affect the whole brain and usually happen when the dog is at rest; collapse, loss of bladder/bowel control,, jaw champing and salivating with the lips drawn back. Some dogs paddle with their legs.

Owners need to reduce noise, and light and try to ensure the dog is safe.

Fits can be unpredictable in frequency; sometimes primary epilepsy can be confused with epilepsy caused by head injury, brain tumour, etc or malfunction of the liver or kidneys.

Medication can greatly improve the quality of a dog's life.

Hope this helps a bit anyway.

Hi Lesley, I'm sorry to hear of your friend’s troubles. In my experience of epilepsy, 12 weeks is rather young for Grand Mal. This normally starts at between 1 and 3 years of age. Epilepsy is present in all of us but usually the threshold is above the level that we normally reach. So saying not all epilepsy is Grand Mal in fact a high proportion not true epilepsy in that it is a fit brought about by an external cause. Years ago a dog belonging to an uncle of mine swallowed a length of string and fitted as it past through the system. This was the one and only fit as far as this dog was concerned. A number of puppies have fitted during the teething period never to fit again. The other side of the coin is that I had a Labrador who started to fit at 18 months and continued until her death at very nearly 14 years old. Although she was epileptic she was never a moments trouble throughout her life. One more point, I would never breed from a dog with full blown epilepsy, and for one like this who may have a low threshold I would be worried that the stress involved would further lower the threshold and start full blown epilepsy. I'm not a vet so it would be a good idea for your friend to discuss this with her vet if she ever intends to breed from this bitch.

Regard, John

Hi, I have now got some more info on the pups condition - she has been eating things in the garden (including snails but owners do not use slug pellets). She has been chewing on a jasmine plant and has had a piece of it caught in her mouth (what plants are poisonous in the garden? I have no idea). She ran into the french windows approx 10 days ago thinking they were open (but this would have been too long ago to cause the fits - wouldn't it?).

The vet has put her on a 10 day course of medication after which they will try to adjust the dosage. The owners wander if there is any link between hyperactivity and this kind of fit. The puppy was the most active of the litter and prior to this was only sleeping for 5 hours each night. (The owners are lovely people but I think the puppy has been ruling their lives - I will try to suggest 'quiet times and places' be introduced into their routine).

Oh yes, in the days before the fits and since, the pup has been eating voraciously whereas before she was a picky eater - they still have her on her puppy diet.

Any other suggestions greatly recieved as their vet is being very down about the condition and has told the owners to prepare for the worst. Is it my imagination or are there some vets out there who make sweeping judgements without proper diagnosis? Or is that another subject alltogether????? I have always been very fortunate with my vets - except for one who did not seem to like dogs but had a very good name with cats, so we just did not go back to her.

Unless she has eaten something toxic I would be very suspicious of some kind of brain damage or liver damage causing fits at this age.

christine

I have definatly noticed links between hyperactivity and epilepsy. My own Beth way always extremely active definatly bordering on hyperactive and immediately after a fit even more so. A knock on the head, for example, running into a glass door could cause brain abnormalities possibly due to a fluid build up but I would have thought her vet would have looked into that at the time. (Always assuming she remembered to tell her vet?)

John

Yes I hoope the vets are aware of all you have told us. Many plants nthe garden are poisonous, the slugs could have maybe come from next door where maybe they do use pellets(?) (also I heard that slugs and snails carry a virus or something?) and a bang on the head from a door could be significant.

Also has the diet been looked at? Many dogs react badly to different diets - I know someone who swears Baker's Complete gives dogs glazed eyes and behavioural problems, and sometimes hyper behaviour or lethargy is a diet related problem.

I would sugggest they work with their vet but question everything every step of the way, and get as many tests done as possible.

Keep in touch about it!

Hi Lindsay, yesterday (Sunday) I suggested to the owners (among other things) that they change the pups diet to boiled rice and cooked chicken. She loved it and today no fits. Probably entirely coincidence but maybe a hopeful pointer that it may be toxic or dietary caused. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Lesley
There is a tremendous amount of research into epilepsy in certain breeds...my own included, hence my interest.
There is a test that can be done which will not rule in epilepsy, but can rule it out.
If the bitch is proven epileptic it is ESSENTIAL that your friend tells the breeder at once that her bitch is producing fitters. If the breeder is responsible she will tell the stud dog owner at once, and not repeat the mating. Your friend must not breed from this pup either.

Sam, Thanks for your reply - I know the breeder and the stud dog owner - both are aware of the situation and monitoring things closely. they are not on the internet so I am kind of acting as intermediary. Thanks for the advice and I'm hoping for more answers tomorrow after crufts with everybody so busy. Nofits today for the puppy and yesterdays were not full blown. We are hoping this is linked to teething or something toxic she has eaten or chewed on. I have also asked the owners about security lighting which may switch on when the pup goes out (it may have been a stimulus for the first attack). The owners have left a message on my answerphone to say that the pup seems much better and they have some thoughts to approach their vet with tomorrow. Fingers crossed for more/better info tomorrow.

Lesley, I've not been posting as I don't know much about this subject but I have been following the posts and wondered if you had any more news. Hopefully good news at that. Have the owners thought about seeing a specialist? I have had numerous problems over the years with my dogs and it is amazing the amount of knowledge some specialists have, after all your average vet is similar to a GP and will only know so much. Hopefully if the vet is good they will have the sense to refer the pup to a specialist anyway.

I don't know how far away the owners are from Newmarket but I can personally recommend the Animal Health Trust. I travelled all the way from Scotland to take my dog to see a Cancer Specialist and I was well impressed with their whole set up.

Lots of luck.

Hi, update on the pup having fits - no fits since and the pup has been off the barbiturates for 4 weeks. Everyone has fingers crossed.

Thats good news !

Pam
Chandlers Ford, Hants

Yes, I'm so glad to hear that. :)

Best wishes
Lindsay

I've got my fingers crossed for you but don’t start to celebrate too soon. These things are inclined to come round in a regular cycle. My old Bethany's was a 6 week cycle but she could miss and it would go for 12 or even 18 weeks but you could always divide it down to the same 6 week cycle. Sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket!

Hoping this is not the case with you, John

Update from puppy who had fits - no more fits to date at 5th Oct. Thanks all for your help.

It's beginning to sound like no more than a one off happening. Could have been caused by any number reasons and hopefully there won't be any further occurrences thank goodness. It's always nice to hear some good news!

Regards, John

Hi Lesley,

We had a yellow labrador dog who had severe fits from the age of six months. The vet diagnosed a form of epilepsy and he was treated with Mysolin tablets which stopped the fits completely and allowed him to live a full and active life. We lost him at twelve years of age but providing he always had his medication(and no tummy upsets) the Mysolin stopped the fits. Hope this helps.

Welcome to the forum Stephen and Shaunagh. :-) Leigh