>we have a police breeding kennels 10 minutes away,<

Saw a couple @ Keston.....
See more 'didnt make the grade' longcoats,One of which we regularly have in the classroom (Moon, he's the one I mailed to you performing CPR!)

One of the reason that they try not to use longcoated GSDs is that most have an open coat & have problems in wet weather, plus a correct coated GSD is a lot easier to groom(I have a friend who works in the local Police Kennels)

>Not sure if they have many long hairs though that are bred by them.

they do not breed from longcoated bitched. The litter that was on TV was a dark gold sable litter from working lines

Hey HuskyGal,

>Moon, he's the one I mailed to you performing CPR!

Is this serious? Would love to see it lol.

Glad to have you back
Anna

Moonmaiden, why do you get so aggressive? The constabulary I am referring to is in Kent. BTW I only meant to use one 'many' :)
In the scheme of things long coats are probably in the minority in the force, but the following links to various police websites all show longcoats:
http://www.psni.police.uk/index/departments/dog_section.htm#Dog_Section-Anchor
http://www.essex.police.uk/news/n_cont.php?articleId=3455
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/features/Kai-training-to-be-police.3643045.jp
http://www.lincs.police.uk/index.asp?locID=127&docID=-1
http://www.kent.police.uk/News/Latest_News/Related%20news%20information/Dog%20trials/South%20East%20police%20do.html
http://www.dumfriesandgalloway.police.uk/aboutus/dogs.htm

The second one being a particularly handsome example. It is very obvious from all your postings that you are a dyed in the wool purist, but I sometimes think that this can lead to narrow mindedness. I've said it so many times, all the breeds of dogs today were created choosing various attributes, there is nothing to say that the 'creators' were right and that other variations should be treated as lepers. History shows us how wrong we can be as 'creators'  The police force clearly DO use long coats, and find them up to the task. As spender says, it doesn't matter to them if they are long coats, so long as they can do the work. I do think that the look of the short coats is 'fiercer' and may be preferred for it's deterrent purposes, as the long coated dogs can look softer.

K

They do not actively breed them as you seem to think & they certainly do not breed lots of them(the BRS shows them using a Schutzhund import dog-they would not do that if they wish to breed longcoats)

Narrow minded no I'm not, if I was I would want the same type of GSD I had in 1958. There is a GSD breed standard & if everyone bred away from it then they would no longer be GSDs, it is the people who wish to make money that breed away from the standard this way they can call their dogs special & rare & charge excessive amounts for them.

If you wish to have these"exotic"types of dog then do not call them GSDs(they would not be acceptable in Germany the motherland of the breed as they are German Shepherds)develop them with the KC to become another breed & maybe in 60 years time you will have you "blue/white/cream/biscuit longcoated"pastoral breed that can stand by itself without the imput of the GSD

I think there is more about being a police dog than the colour or texture of the coat.  The police have a hard enough time finding suitable dogs that they could be forgiven for breeding long coats if that is what they do.  They need good health and serviceable hips etc throughout a long enough dog life-time for the investment to be paid back.  I.e. good quality dogs with bold character and not plagued with poor genetic health and lack of hardness.  I can't imagine they have a hefty budget that will allow them to compete with those that pay top dollar for schutzhund and top show dogs, so they may have to 'give' a little in certain areas, such as coat colour or texture for example.   

That doesn't mean I agree with breeding outside the breed standard under normal circumstances because I don't.  :-D

Pups from top show and working lines are not overpriced, maybe twice the price of teh untregsitered unhelath tested oens,b tu I expect that more than double of teh well bred ones woudl pass the grade so worth teh investment which is after all very little in the grand scheme of things.  Don't know how mcuh a well bred pup costs but certainly no more than the designer crossbreed of the moment.

> can't imagine they have a hefty budget that will allow them to compete with those that pay top dollar for schutzhund and top show dogs, so they may have to 'give' a little in certain areas, such as coat colour or texture for example
>
>

The litter this force, that alleged breeds many longcoats, had was to a top Schutzhund dog & they had no stud fee to pay, the stud dog owner is a serving policeman(not a dog handler I hasten to add)& was happy to allow his dog to be used on a correct coated bitch from UK working trials lines. I know of the handler through friends who are in to Schutzhund & the breeding of the bitch was obvious from the BRS

All the dog handlers I know don't want a longcoat at any cost, because of the extra grooming & health issues with dogs been wet to the skin in bad weather & being chilled & developing arthritis(this has happened to a local handler his dog has had to be retired at 4 years of age-he now has a gifted puppy from schutzhund lines-obtained vis the previously mentioned stud dog owner)Not all breeders of Schutzhund GSDs charge the going rate to the services & are more than happy to see one of their dogs in full time work.

I doubt even the best of the show dogs would be suitable for police work, even the dogs from German showlines

Sure long-coats are not ideal; it depends what there is available, sometimes they may have to 'give' a little to get a good sound healthy dog of the required temperament.  Individual dog handlers may favour a standard coat to a long coat, that's not unreasonable.  

The police rely very much on donations and gifted dogs but are they enough? 

I found this account from a police person on CD...

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/5575.html

>Also coat length does not matter regarding a working dog it would not be chucked out of the police service because of that if it worked well it would stay!

Breeding standard coat to standard coated dogs can still throw long-coats....

The police obviously do use long coated GSD as a service dog.

I don't know if CB meant that her local police were breeding long-coated adult dogs intentionally or if long-coats were the progeny of matings between standard coated adult dogs.   Personally I have to say that if it came to the choice between a genetically unhealthy dog with a standard coat and a healthy dog with a long coat, give me the long coat any day!

If a force is currently breeding from even one long coated bitch, I would class that as 'actively' otherwise they wouldn't be breeding them any more at all.

The part about the grooming I CAN relate to though. I believe in an earlier post you also said that the police no longer accepted 'gifted' dogs, which is also not true of several constabularies, including the one I am referring to in Kent. My argument to you is that SOME long coated bitches are being bred from by the police, and some long coats are gifted to the police who willingly accept them provided they can do the work.
Interesting post on CD from a police dog handler, that particular officer doesn't seem to have an aversion to longcoats :) Clearly all dog handlers don't share the same view.

Looks like a lot of forces seem to be prefering german bred dogs

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080111/tod-britain-germany-police-animals-langu-6058bda_1.html

@£2000 each     There must be a desperate shortage of suitable GSD's in the UK. 

£2000 each, wow. Still as an investment perhaps for a breeding programme it could pay off, but that doesn't seem to be what the article implies does it? Interesting that the reasons stated are that the dogs are more efficient and obedient.

BTW in reply to an earlier post, yes the police were deliberately breeding from a particular longcoated bitch, not 2 standards throwing longcoats. I can only presume, as I have been trying to get across all along, that she must be a good dog across the board for them to have chosen to breed from her.
K

They must be dogs certified for breeding @ £2000 a go.

Thanks for clarifying that.  No doubt the dog had other valuable attributes that were needed in their breeding programme and as I understand it in theory, odds are that if they mate her with a dog that doesn't carry the recessive long-coat gene, no long-coat puppies, but they will be carriers.  But then again there are those who do not think it is wise to eliminate known carriers of the LC gene in GSD's from a breeding program.  Isn't there a DNA test for the LC gene available now?

> £2000 each, wow. Still as an investment perhaps for a breeding programme it could pay off, but that doesn't seem to be what the article implies does it? Interesting that the reasons stated are that the dogs are more efficient and obedient

They are fully operational dogs so saving the police a lot of money training the dog from a puppy, my friend in Germany has had a good few enquiries from UK police forces to supply dogs to them, but her dogs are not a business & she only breeds every couple of years. I am probably one of the few people in the UK she would let have a puppy she bred. The dogs will have a minimum of Schutzhund I working qualification. My friend isn't keen on the UK police having any of her puppies as she has heard of & seen the ability & methods of a lot of the handlers

All SV registered dogs have to be tattooed, microchipped, DNA profiled, hip score & elbow scored & pass the breed survey(which includes working tests)before they can be bred from & recieve the coveted pink pedigree

£2,000 is actually quite cheap for a fully trained dog

There is not a nationwide standard on police dogs or their training.  Some forces rely on gift dogs, some have their own breeding programme and some buy in dogs from proven backgrounds either as pups in this country or import part trained ones of various breeds.

The training also varies from the neanderthal method of "The book" to more modern outlooks with educated trainers many of them now civilians.

Due to the pet passport scheme more and more dogs are being campaigned abroad in schutzhund, mondioring and KNPV etc and being bred to/from working stock.

On the continent there is not a free for all for breeding and there are strict criteria that prospective sires and dams must meet.

There are longcoated dogs in all disciplines including the police but as previously mentioned it is not only incorrect ie a fault but can impair working ability etc etc.

Well bred puts from hip and elbow scored, with clear eye certificates and from haemophilia free stock proven in the field of competition are available in the UK at a cost which is not more expensive than mediocre pet quality dogs and sometimes considerably less than show stock.

Whether or not a force CHOOSES to use/buy these animals is down to the individual policies of that force or more usually the head of the unit. 

And £2000 is incredibly cheap for high quality trained dog!!!!!!!!