i'm not sure if i'm allowed to post this as part of it might be considered inappropriate (admin if this is the case i apologise, i have tried to keep it appropriate). i am doing research for my human rights essay, the basic gist of which is pic an area of the human rights spectrum and aconsider if the international convention of human rights can actually inhibit cultural rights (eg, the human rights act says there should be no discrimination against women, but in some countries women are still seen as inferior to men, so this infringes the country in questions right to its own culture). well i have decided to look at this regarding female circumcision, and the stuff i am reading is so upsetting. i'll not go into details to avoid upsetting admin but oh my god, these poor girls. just needed to voice my upset (again, admin i hope that was ok and not classed as inappropriate). for anyone interested have a lok at the world health organisation site (they bitterly denounce the practise btw)

Yes have read about this and it is disgraceful

some of the stuff is just awful. lol, and i've to try and argue (for a wee bit at least) why people should still be allowed to do it :() i think i'll be going with how the right to conduct the practise should be placed lower than the rights of these women to health, freedom (of sexuality etc), to be free from torture (what i think it is!) and have the right to life (death is not uncommon following it). peters and wolper (1994, routledge) say that 2million girls world wide ar at risk of this, it is practised in 26 african countries, parts of asia and increasingly in the western world :O

I'm aware of it already, incredible that such torture is still considered acceptable (by some) in these times isn't it :-(  You're very brave chosing that as a topic, I certainly don't think I could remain objective about it, well done :-)

it's going to take some doing... i'm reading part of a book on it on google scholar just now and oh my god, i'm nearly in tears in the library. bits of it are making me feel sick. I'm particularly interested in gender and rights so it's certainly interesting but my god. theres a quote from a women about when they did it to her daughters and it's heartbreaking. i'm going to argue that it contravenes several of the articles of the UN convention- aritlce 2: everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this declaration, without distinction of anykind, such as race, colour, sex, article 3: everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person, article 5: noone shall be subect to torture etc etc...

Yes it is terrible, i have seen this on tv,it happens here in UK too!

yeah its the increaded migration of people from countries that do it thats brought it here. i really just don't see the need. estimated 6000 girls a day go through it.

Truly awful practice but until beliefs change eg male beliefs, then it will be difficult to eradicate.  It is hard to imagine that it goes on in the UK, but it does, but at least there is good free medical assistance when and if the 'procedure' goes wrong.

Totally barbaric and cruel beyond belief. How it can carry on in a civilised society is beyond words

those who practise it believe that it is the correct thing to do. lol, maybe i'll get a job at the UN and try to get it eradicated

I would contact BBC or ITV(can't remember which) for archive footage as there was a very informative factual

program aired about this, possibly as long as 20 years ago.  Something like Panorama.  It had a powerful effect on me.

> <SPAN class=htt>In Response to</SPAN> Astarte

I remember seeing a programme on this a few years ago where the lady concerned as she is now, was tricked as a young female to going out with her Aunt and had no idea what for or what was about to be done to her. As an adult in this country she was extremely upset about what had happened to her.

If under religious/cultural reasons young women choose to have this done, or are even brainwashed into having it done, there is little to do, human rights give the right of choice after all, but I have a feeling that many are tricked, forced and blackmailed into having it done, which quite rightly is not free will, I don't agree with many things which are done in the name of religion/culture many barbaric and inhumane acts are carried out. :-(

You have chosen a difficult topic Astarte, but well done for chosing something that will get a debate going on your course. I guess the gist of your argument will be that no-one not even human rights can dictate how a religion or culture is practised and can only protect those who want out of it.

pretty much, the idea being that the girl has the right to choose. if her socialisation and belief teaches her to make that choice then fine, its her decesion. but depending on the type of "surgery" (loosely terming it this, no anesthetic in most cases btw) the can conduct it during infancy, between 4and 8 or at marraigable age (approx 14 depending where it is). i think if these countries regard a girl as suitable for marraige at this age she should get the choice and the other forms be wiped out. i can't see why anyone would want to though, if chastity is what your after just don't do it! i'm going to argue that certain rights have to trump others due to the effect they can have on the individual.

do you think they'll still have it? i started my research today and i've already got a mine of information! dd research on the actual thing and the statutes for womens rights etc. tomorrow i'll be doing culture as a human right and hopefully find a reference i'm after about how all rights are not equal to each other (eg. freedom of life beats freedom of culture). tonnes on it! must say its a great essay topic

I saw that or a similar programme and it has stayed with me for all this time.  horrific, barbaric are mild words to use aren't they?

The program I watched had women interviewed and most have had it done by force as little girls.

They keep programs archived pretty much forever, just have to find out which of them it was, worth going on the websites and typing in a search.