Well.  That was disappointing, to put it mildly.  Oban had a puppy visitor today, a lovely GR, male, who is much bigger and at 15 weeks is two weeks older than Oban.  They met in our backyard and had a good romp around for 15 minutes and when the play slowed down we brought them inside my house.  Several good plays quickly escalated into what I consider excessively rough play on Oban's part.  Oban was very barky, biting hard, growling and being very pushy with the bigger pup.  Oban was the instigator every time.  I separated them several times and the GR began to retreat upstairs where Oban couldn't reach him.  At the end another scrap ensued and finally the GR gave back as good as he got and Oban seemed a bit cowed.

I have seen vicious dog fights and I have observed play that seems frightening but is still only exuberant play.  In my opinion Oban was bordering on serious aggression.  The GR owners were not dismayed and neither pup was hurt.  They want to get together again. 

Oban never seemed to "lose it" to the extent I thought he would turn and bite me when I intervened, until the last "fight" which was very scary and I am sure was serious.

So, I need some tips.  Can such a young puppy really be seriously aggressive?  I think yes but what do you, who are more experienced than me think?  Should I have picked a neutral area for the first visit?  I didn't think it would be a concern with such youngsters.  What would you do next time and with other dogs?  Oban has only met a few other dogs and this did not happen with them but they were adult dogs and they met outside in a neutral area.

I think the other dog sticking up for himself so that Oban gave ground was a good lesson.  In nature he would still be with litter mates and these contests of sibling rivalry would occur, and Mum might step in, but largely they would sort themselves out and learn canine manners, which he has forgotten or hasn't had enough practise of.

I think he needs more play dates and if he wants to keep friends he will soon learn to be more moderate.  Especially if you can arrage for a weel balanced bitch to tell him off when he crosses the line.

I would only intervene if the other pup couldn't cope with his play, but with ti being bigger than him and prepared to stick up for itself I think he may well have learnt a lesson.

It is similar to some toddler being brattish to other children, especially if they have no siblings at home.

Well that sure saved me a lot of typing :D  I totally agree with Brainless' interpretation of situation AND how best to move on :)

Try not to get into a tizzy about things JJ and I'm sure Oban will be absolutely fine.
best wishes, Teri :)

I agree with Brainless on this one, it sounds like the GR was just making himself understood.  I see it a fair bit with my little lab/collie - she can get VERY rough with play and to the uninitiated it looks like a fight, but she's just getting carried away.  She'll pester and really irritate the others if I don't stop her.  The other day she started to do it to Rem when he didn't want to play, and he told her in no uncertain tersm what he felt - she stopped immediately, and actually hasn't gotten as carried away since (that was the first time he's really told her off).

It's all feedback, and essential for them to learn their boundaries.  I've noticed it time and time again with Soli - she is hopeless at playing, just bullies (not always on purpose) but will stop if she's told off.  If the other dog gives her an inch she'll take several miles!

Thank you.  It is hard when the shoe is on the other foot.  With Jet I reassured many owners when their dogs were more rambunctious in their play than they thought they should be.  I could always tell if it really was too much as Jet would come and hide behind me.  As long as she continued to play I knew it was all right.  Now I know how those owners felt when it seemed their dog was being a bully.  Oban is a completely different personality than Jet was, much more self confident.  The young GR clearly did not enjoy such rough housing yesterday and was attempting to get away from Oban without retaliating.  Perhaps if we meet at their house next time it will be different. 

There was a positive note.  Oban was good with the 12 year old daughter and one year old baby.  He has not seen children before.

Today Oban is meeting a 4 yr old spayed ESS again.  We got together last weekend and she was wonderful with him.  When he got too "in her face" she simply put out one big mitt and pushed him to the ground.

Yes, I think Oban is also going to be one of those "take a milers."

just to add to what others have said,(my dog is a very full on player)that in a big open space where dogs can run and twist and give each other the slip that kind of play can work but in a room, a confined space it can escalate into something a bit more manic as they cannot run away and behave normally. if they were ok in the garden but it just got too much in the house that might be why?

To update, Oban has since had a visit from a neighbours older Min. Schnauzer.  She laid down the rules right away, even though she was in our house, and Oban quickly realized she was the boss.  He tested her all evening though, so while we had supper with her owner Oban was incarcerated in the kitchen to give her a rest.  He'd had an outing in the morning with another neighbour's ESS and was good and tired and just fell asleep for the rest of the evening.

I did call the breeder and her take is that as we are doing our best to make Oban lowest on the family totem pole, lower than the three cats, when another puppy entered the house he was determined that it should be lower than him.  As the other puppy was OK with that Oban was too forceful.  Oban bit and snarled and the other pup said, "yep all right, it's your house and you are top dog", but Oban continued to challenge him.  I intervened and the breeder said that was correct, a mother dog would intervene too if one pup was being too rough with the others.

We are still trying to arrange another outing with the GR pup.

Sounds about right :D  Good luck