Can anyone tell me please where I can purchase one of the Illusion collars cant buy them direct from the website as they dont send to UK.
We wanted to try one for our rescue, as we get so many young dogs in.

I have no idea where to buy one but don't understand what the purpose of them is.  I've looked at the webpage and the wee film that goes with it but don't understand why having part of the collar up at the top of the dogs neck stops it pulling.  can you explain to me how it works as I just don't get it.
you might get one on american ebay from a vendor who will send to uk.

The area high up a dog's neck (under the chin/just behind the ears) is very sensitive and more discomfort/pain can be caused with less effort than lower down the neck.

:rolleyes:  Sorry, sorry I am not a CM fan!

thanks JG

There are a couple on ebay - although wouldn't a slip lead high up have the same effect?

Or an American slip collar the kind that is only just big enough to go artoudn the top of the neck, so a clip is sed to get it on or off.

There's also this warning about them on the chap's website:

"WARNING: If your dog's neck measures less than 13 inches at the base, or your dog weighs less than 18 lbs, you should NOT use the collar. The Illusion collar is not intended for puppies under one year of age. Dogs with any breathing problems, such as "pushed-in faces" that restrict breathing; dogs with trachea or throat problems, such as Pomeranians; and dogs with elongated, overly slender necks, such as Greyhounds, should NOT use the collar. Consult your local professional or veterinarian for further advice."

.. . and that warning only goes to show that the only "Illusion" about the Illusion collar is that it is a humane method of training. 

Exactly, Cairnmania....

The Illusion is that your dog is walking calmly next to you, when in fact it is a seething mass of resentment and discomfort, and hates you   :rolleyes:

Can I ask why?  From what I've seen of these collars, they are designed specifically to cause the dog immense pain in a bid to control it.  That in itself is inexcusable IMO, and if the dog in question were to have emotional issues (such as aggression, fear etc) then it could be an absolute disaster.  Have you tried putting pressue just behind your jawbone?  Very painful with only a little, never mind for a dog trying to pull on a lead.

Much better to use reward-based training.

Much better to use reward-based training.

But that requires effort?!

Hi hairydog,

Another one here who is no more approving of this "device" than the other posters - I'm afraid CM's training methods (which include prong and electric collars as well as so called illusion ones) leave me cold   No, strike that, more accurately very over heated as he makes my blood boil.

Please strongly advise those involved in the training side of your rescue that these are an instrument of torture to dogs and as such should never be used by anyone, particularly not those involved in rehabilitating dogs which have perhaps already had a poor start in life and need to build trust in humans :(

You would be better with Figure of Eight head collars as they are based on the calming T Touch Bands

I would echo everyone else and say use a different tool - not one of those things. A normal head collar is infinitely preferable. :)

Not a fan of Cesar Millan. :rolleyes:

Thanks for all your comments I was asked by someone about this collar and to ask about how to get hold of one, I guess you have now made all your feelings known.

Well maybe you can advise that many people do not like CM's methods.  Look on many dog sites and many have the same opinion.  Of course there are some that like him, but I usually find that they are people who lived in the Barbara Woodhouse era.  Am I being a bit tough here?  No don't think so, one show I remember was where he actually threw a dog on the floor and sat on top of it, it was that terrified that it's eyes and tongue stuck out of it's head and it was almost blue before he released.  I've even heard on other sites where people have witnessed people doing this with dogs in public areas due to CM showing that method :rolleyes:

I'm sorry but many of his methods scare me.

"Of course there are some that like him, but I usually find that they are people who lived in the Barbara Woodhouse era.  Am I being a bit tough here?"

I would like to reply to this post and obviously the thread,It was me that asked  Hairydog to ask about the collars,I she is my colleague in rescue I  originally dismissed Cesar Milan as " just another trainer " but having watched his methods I found him to be a saviour in many ways by teaching owners to be pack leader and not be ruled by their dogs.

In  my rescue we see many Labradors who have ruled the household who drag their owners in the gate  one such owner hanging onto the gatepost :( totally out of control.
Sadly People who believe their dog is a little person in a fur jacket and not a dog are storing up big problems when the dog takes over the owner which often happens then said owner  often doesnt want the dog anymore.
I love my dogs  I dedicate my life to dogs but my dogs respect me and they are obedient I walk my dogs on a slip lead including my  Giant schnauzer pup at 8 months and he is a massive boy  and also my beloved Ned a GWP who was a challenging dog who sadly is now passed away.
But !!! we are dealing here with dogs coming in  rescue that  can weigh 8 stone and can drag us everywhere  I am in my mid fifties my Hubby in late 60s we have to handle these dogs  try to train the dogs a bit before homing them and any new concept thats worth a look we want to see including the illusion collars.

I also know that when guide dogs used to asses donated dogs  (they now breed their own) they used the check chain up high on the dogs  as did Barbara Woodhouse I have seen this on occasion when they have assesed dogs from us, there was nothing wrong with her common sense methods in my opinion. (shoot me if you like) but if it means a dog can be taught to walk properly then so be it,gentle leaders and haltis were not around then.
So lets recap  these wonderful dogs we wish to help  so much  are animals they can come with problems and if we address the problems then we can maybe rehabilitate the dog to live a useful and happy life.
If people trained their dogs from puppy hood then we wouldnt have to correct problems when a dog is older which we do all the time here.
i would like to see one of these collars to see exactly how they work and then decided wether or not they are useful.
Glenys .

I pretty much think they are just one of those slip collars with a clip because they would be too small to go over a dogs head as they only have about an inch of play over the width of the dogs neck at narrowest point.

I have often kept a collar up very high when controlling and excited dog, as yes th area is sensitive and any puling will e uncomfortable so the dog will avoid the discomfort, this is when the dog is so high another more sensitive approach wouldn't even register.

I have to admit that when I start a walk with my four of vie dogs I will move their collars up high on their necks to remind them they are their and this gets over the first few minutes when someone might be inclined to pull.  Their collars will loosen and slip further down when they are walking on a loose lead as the walk progresses.

This also works for a dog determined to sniff when you don't want it to, but of course you should never jerk the lead, the dog is in control of whether it is comfortable or no.  If it pulls it is uncomfortable if it doesn't it is not.

I watched Barbara Woodhouse and I really don't see what people ahve against her.  the chains she used were a bit clumsy, but other than that I never saw any cruely advocated.

I watched Barbara Woodhouse and I really don't see what people ahve against her.  the chains she used were a bit clumsy, but other than that I never saw any cruely advocated.

I remember her putting a heavy choke chain on a Pekingese PUPPY, and also in one of her books she tells how she always exercised her own Great Danes by running them alongside her car, lead out the car window............

that is very wrong, we have middle/slim thickness check chains for our bullmastiffs and have never used them roughly. they have massive muscular well skinned necks that are made for roughness and we would never ever use force on them for control, why oh why would you put one on a toy puppy!!! could she not have killed the wee thing?

No-one said it was used roughtly just that she used the large check chain to train all the dogs.

I used to exercise a GSD in much the same way.   Husband drove my 4x4 and I sat in the back with the tailgate up.  German Shepherd was on a lead which I held and my husband drove the car no faster than a trot.  If you have large dogs that need to be well muscled with great stamina (mine was a show dog) unless you are a marathon runner yourself there are not a lot of options. 

I used to exercise a GSD in much the same way.   Husband drove my 4x4 and I sat in the back with the tailgate up.  German Shepherd was on a lead which I held and my husband drove the car no faster than a trot.  If you have large dogs that need to be well muscled with great stamina (mine was a show dog) unless you are a marathon runner yourself there are not a lot of options.

I think you will find it is illegal for a start, and no, it isn't necessary. I have 3 Malinois that are show dogs -they are more energetic and have more stamina and are faster than GSDs (one of the reasons for why so many police forces are turning to them) and the best way to exercise them is simply a good offlead run like any other dog. I can't keep up with them, I'm very unfit, but they run backwards and forwards as they always check on me, so easily run 5 times as far as I walk.

My friendPetra has Schutzhund working GSDs in Germany & she exercises her dogs riding a bike either running free or on a "Springer"They have to pass a test of stamina alongside a bike

I watched a Cesar Milan show the other day, and was very interested to work out what we weren't seeing. With very little training of any sort, he had a dog-aggressive dog integrated in with his two pit bulls and then with 37 other dogs in a compound at what I assume was his home - more or less on the basis that if the owner didn't wind him up, he wouldn't get wound up. To be honest, I can't imagine any aggressive training methods that could have achieved this.

As I say, I'm very aware that this is only a small part of his shows, and didn't even watch the entire programme, but I was very impressed with the bit I saw.

M.

All the dogs in his family are rescued  some had been used for fighting he has a definite affinity with dogs  last night programme he was in mexico who have a bad reputation with dogs he helps rescue rehabilitate the dogs in his own free time.

I watch The Dog Whisperer every day, and have yet to see the episode where he apparently threw a dog on its back and the dog was so freaked, his eyes were round.  I have seen owners on the show say they have done it, but never Cesar himself.

The collar high on the neck does help.  Many toy breeds are shown strung up, so whats the difference?  When the collar is high on my MP then they walk really nicely, but when it is low, then it is a different story.  They need corrections and such, and it takes a good while before they settle down.  (started show training really early, and then havent worked on Heel since it messes up the gait of a MP)

My one bitch is VERY dominant, and probably the wrong choice for a first time (she is my first dog that I had ever had full responsibility for).  Before I started watching the Dog Whisperer, I had a horrid time with her.  She was a 13 week old, 3 pound pup, but she was a devil.  Now, I can trust her most times, and have very little fighting when it comes to grooming.  Just by not getting frustrated, and following Cesars main two main philosophies:
1) No touch, no talk, no eye contact (when first coming home, ignore the dog for a bit)
and
2) Exercise, discipline, then affection. 

She knows I love her with all my heart, but she also knows she is second. 

I dont see a problem with Cesars dog phycology.  He has never said he trains dogs, he doesnt teach them to come sit or stay.  But he does take Red Zone cases, and teaches people how to better make their dogs balanced. 

The Illusion Collar, from what I have heard, is for those that have a hard time keeping the collar up.  Show collars (collar and leash all in one) are somewhat hard to keep up at the right spot, when the person doesnt know how to do it.  My first time in the ring, I showed on a loose leash because I didnt know how to string up the dog. 

As far as the warnings though, it is to keep dogs safe.  Slender neck dogs, have very little protection on their windpipes, pugged face dogs already have breathing difficulties, and such.  HE WANTS YOU TO BE AWARE.  Just like crates come with a warning about not leaving collars on when dogs go in crates.  It doesnt stop people from buying crates though does it?

The top of the neck is very sensitive & having the slip lead. Illusion collar, pinch collar or choker up there causes the dog pain & CM uses this to gain control. I have a toy breed & would never use a chain or slip lead or anything else at the top of the neck

If you are ignoring your dog when you come home then you are not acting like an Alpha pack leader-I suggest you research studies of real wild wolf packs & not the artificial captive packs-the higher ranked wolves allow the lower ranked dogs & puppies to greet them when the return from hunting & they also almost immediately regurgitate food for them-totally the opposite to CM's "theories"

He Alpha Rolled a Bulldog(as in English)& got bitten as a result

He also makes all the dogs wait to eat & then allows them to eat in the order in which he considers the ranking to be-again never happens in the wild

>the higher ranked wolves allow the lower ranked dogs & puppies to greet them when the return from hunting & they also almost immediately regurgitate food for them-totally the opposite to CM's "theories"

Absolutely 100% true, and can be seen on any TV documentary about canids. The adults return from hunting and the youngsters fawn all over them and immediately get food (carried safe and warm in the adults' stomachs). They're not ignored or punished for their greeting - quite the opposite, they get the ultimate reward, because food = Life.

Ive seen him alpha roll a lot of dogs - the Bulldog Moonmaiden mentions, a pitbull bitch, a huskyish bitch, a chow type dog.... and a lot more!

Basically, if you think Cesar Millan knows what he is doing then you need to relearn a lot about dog behaviour, dog body language and how dogs learn.

>>Basically, if you think Cesar Millan knows what he is doing then you need to relearn a lot about dog behaviour, dog body language and how dogs learn<<

I do know a great deal about how to interact with dogs, and dog body language.  I have only ever been bitten once, and that was when I was holding my spaniels rawhide, and she grabbed for it.  Her teeth made contact with my finger.  An accident, not because I didnt know what I was doing.

>>If you are ignoring your dog when you come home then you are not acting like an Alpha pack leader-I suggest you research studies of real wild wolf packs & not the artificial captive packs-the higher ranked wolves allow the lower ranked dogs & puppies to greet them when the return from hunting & they also almost immediately regurgitate food for them-totally the opposite to CM's "theories"<<

I do not ignore my dogs.  I dont acknowledge the unwanted behaviour. I do not run to her every time she barks, and whines.  I do not see how this is a problem?  It teaches her that unwanted behaviour will not get her what she wants.  When I come in, I dont let her stop me the second I walk in the door.  I put the kettle on, take my jacket off, and put it away.  What?  Maybe 5 minutes tops?  This teaches her not to get excited every time I walk in the door.  She is not jumping on me, not making it impossible for me to get in the house, not running past me out the door.  There is no problem with that. 

I may not pet her, when I first walk in the door.  But she knows I care for her, and she just has to wait.  Be calm, and wait.  If she was bigger, it would not be an issue I dont think.  Because dogs jumping on you when you walk in the door to me is unwanted. 

I do use the sound CM makes, and it does work.  She knows when she hears that sound, she is doing something unwanted by me.  She stops what she is doing.  A little "cshh" sound is a lot better then yelling in my books. It is really just another word for NO

Also, you have no idea how long he has been working with these dogs.  The show IS EDITED, and you obviously dont see all the ground work before hand. 

The dog bite thing he uses?  Dogs bite eachother for unwanted behavior.  If a dog doesnt agree with what another dog is doing, they bite it.  Happens from the time the pup is born. 

He doesnt kick dogs.  He pushes them with his foot.  It takes the dog off balance, and then the dog has to think about being off balance, instead of being "red zone".  That push to the side, is Kheeller (sp?).

There are some good things, and bad things with every training method.  It has to be balanced to the dog.  I dont like the lure method, and have yet to have it actually work.  I dont like having a dog do something because it is afraid of me either. 

About the choke chains, or "stringing up" of dogs.  It is done all the time.  My dogs arent in pain, when the collar is high.  A high collar, has to be fairly tight, and on a tight collar you cant correct the dog.  The use of halti's works on the premise that there is a nerve on the nose that makes it uncomfortable for them to pull. 

My dogs are always waggin their tails, happy doing the Min Pin dance.  And if some of the techniques used by Cesar, worked to achieve that, then fine. 

There are other trainers that tell you NOT TO TALK TO YOUR DOG AT ALL FOR SEVERAL WEEKS.  That I wont do.  According to this trainer (who is also on TV with the show "At The End of my Leash") talking to the dog doesnt do anything.  He tells his clients to have the dog on constant umbilical training, and you cant say one word to the dog EVER.  People use him? 

>The dog bite thing he uses?  Dogs bite eachother for unwanted behavior.  If a dog doesnt agree with what another dog is doing, they bite it.  Happens from the time the pup is born.

My dogs do not bite each other for unwanted behaviour & neither do wolves.

If CM was actually an Alpha in the eyes of his"pack"he would not have to use his exaggerated over bearing body posture, he would be able to subdue them with a look or a low quiet growl. I've have Alpha leaders in my dogs & when we had eleven(yes 11)entire German Shepherds(males & females)she(oh yes it was a bitch)ruled them with a will of steel, if she considered their behaviour not to be acceptable she never had to bite or Alpha roll any of them(& some were bigger than her), just a slight head turn & sigh soon put a stop to it, she didn't have to resort to physical correction & was never ever challenged

I have a very good idea how ling he(or one of his"people")work with the dogs as I know someone who is in the production team there are lots of dogs that he"retrains"who are never seen because it doesn't make good TV

If you observe the dogs body language many of them are very very stressed whilst he has them & literally they have switched off because of their treatment(especially the pain caused by the collars he uses)

The dog bite thing he uses?  Dogs bite eachother for unwanted behavior.  If a dog doesnt agree with what another dog is doing, they bite it.  Happens from the time the pup is born. 

We have four dogs and I can honestly say I have never seen our dogs bite to correct each other. They may snap (though VERY rarely), but they don't make contact. And the only time I have ever seen this behaviour is in resource guarding situations and as redirected aggression! In resource guarding, in 99% of cases, a grumble is enough for the other dogs to back off. I cannot recall a single other situation where they would have done it.

I have never seen a dog being alpha rolled by another (and I have observed 100s if not 1000s of dogs over the years), though I have observed active submission, where a dog turns on his back voluntarily! That's an entirly different thing, that's a voluntary behaviour... whereas dogs know exactely how dangerous and how aggressive it would be to turn another dog onto their back!

Vera

Let me make myself more clear.  I was not talking a hard bite.  I was talking a correction bite.  I wasnt talking blood everywhere, full blown dog fight.  A snap, or something to that measure, is truely what I was talking about. 

But anyways, there are many different methods to training, and CM has one.  Some people follow it, some people only take parts of what he does, and others dismiss him completely.  It is interesting though, how the training methods differ from Country to country, as in America, he is widely recognized, and called apon, yet it seems the UK has no use for him.  Interesting

um, ours don't bite or 'correction' bite either. worst we've had in years was our mum and pup duo having a small (entirely vocal) tiff the other day (keeper is 18 mnths, shes pushing the boundaries as they do...)

I  originally dismissed Cesar Milan as " just another trainer " but having watched his methods I found him to be a saviour in many ways by teaching owners to be pack leader and not be ruled by their dogs.

The pack leader theory is very, very outdated........all good trainers these days have long since realised it simply does not work like that. Dogs know humans are not part of their pack, and there is no need to dominate them to control them and have them exhibit plain good manners. That's where CM is decades behind, for a start...... There are far better ways, and far SAFER ways. Any method including pain and punishment, such as choke chains, have the risk of making certain dogs much, much WORSE.

I've been reading about CM, and watching clips of his shows on Youtube and tbh I'm amazed he's still alive.  Anyone else flipping an aggressive dog onto its back would more than likely be reduced to a stain on the pavement in about 0.03 seconds.

To be fair, he must have SOME sort of affinity/ability with dogs, simply to still have limbs left.  Unless the dogs are just too taken aback by his cheek to react.

I must admit i disliked Cesar Milan because everyone else did,and because of the terrible stories of alpha rolls etc etc. that i have heard.
But i do watch his show every now and then,eagerly awaiting some kind of negative training move,so i can see first hand what everyone is talking about,but thus far i have seen nothing negative.I have seen that he is hugely into exercising dogs,a positive thing,he seems to be able to read dogs and their problems,which must be the affinity everyone talks about.
Admittedly i have only watched around 10 shows,but i have seen nothing negative in any of them.And believe me,i would see a tap on the nose or bum as harsh/negative!

He does on first glance seem ok, someone who thought he was ok watched it with me the other day and suddenly she said 'hey, did he just jab that dog in the neck'... and yes he did, that is one of his trade mark moves tbh...a sharp jab in the neck with stiff fingers.

Often i find its good to watch with the sound off so you can see whats really going on and not be fooled by the rubbish he often talks (not always, granted - exercise and understanding the needs of each breed are important, describing learned helplessness as 'calm submission' is not!).

Look for the subtle body language, dogs dont want to make eye contact with him ever, they look away, they put ears back, lip lick, turn away from him - these are all calming gestures from stressed animals trying to stop the pressure and bullying he puts them under.

I dont think for a second dogs always respect him, nor that he has any particularly great affinity with dogs. Each dog he meets he goes in there with a very dominating challenging attitude/body language. This is why occassionally you will see dogs have a go at him almost immediately.

I say occasionally because it will often be edited out except where it makes good tv and adds to the 'case' in question (the episode aired this week or maybe last, with a pitbull mix, a pair of shelties and i forget what else.... the pitbull mix was frightened and reacted badly to his rude, challenging behaviour almost immediately. The dog was scared and was trying to climb onto the owners lap, Cesar challenged him and hoicked him off in a very confrontational way, and as a result the dog growled and i think snapped at him. ).

It isnt always shown though, there will like any tv program, good or bad, be a lot that ends up on the cutting room floor!

Oooo a CM discussion, these are always intresting! :D

Im gonna stay out of it as I see some sense in his works and he does have a connection but think that simple training when the puppy is very young will easily implant good behaviour in later life, if you have done what you should have done when the puppy first came home at 8 weeks old IE  train it, love it and feed it and where needed disciplin it, then you would have no need for all these fancy collers anyway as your dog would have already been trained.

I think these collers are for people who cant really be bothered to train the dog with reward based training and want fast results rather then good long term results.

As for greeting dogs when you come home, I have a flannel on the ready for the slobber attack I recieve when I get home every day, Kisses and hugs the lot, and I wouldnt stop that for anything, I mean what a greeting home!! :P :D

i bought CM's book but stopped reading it i must admit when he said to run with your dog for four hours every day! sorry but i couldnt manage that. i dont like the way he kicks the dogs with his heel although they seldom notice, to me its still kicking a dog. i dont think he 'cures' eveyone, a pair of small dogs fighting still couldnt be safely left together when he finished. i dont think my dogs would pay any attention if i made the hissing noise he does either!

quite agree. when i get to my parents and mine all rush up i shoo them off till i've put everything i've got with me down then greet them all, they are showing their love! they should wait if asked but i generally don't need to ask for more than a minute

But i do watch his show every now and then,eagerly awaiting some kind of negative training move,so i can see first hand what everyone is talking about,but thus far i have seen nothing negative.I have seen that he is hugely into exercising dogs,a positive thing,he seems to be able to read dogs and their problems,which must be the affinity everyone talks about.
Admittedly i have only watched around 10 shows,but i have seen nothing negative in any of them.And believe me,i would see a tap on the nose or bum as harsh/negative!

You obviously haven't watched the same shows that I have (I watch him regularly too)... In practically every show, he jabs the dogs with his fingers, he kicks them with his heels... and in many, he alpha rolls them... even to "submit" to rabbits ! The other day, he pulled a very nervous GSD out of his hiding place (under a desk) forcefully... and the same dog was then used as a PAT dog being terrified of everyone and shut down. CM thought it was great to see the dog "helping" people... he obviously didn't see how very dangerous this sort of interaction was... a PAT dog is calm and confident and loves people, they are not nervous of being with people and being touched by them. It's an accident waiting to happen.

He often yanks on prong collars... how painful has that to be for the dogs. Unbelievable. Unfortunately most people don't see that many dogs are wearing prong collars as they don't look so bad unless you recognise them.

The dogs he trains are not "cured", they have just shut down and are now hiding their emotions and the symptoms (barking, lunging etc.). That again is a very dangerous state of affairs as the owner now has a false sense of security as to the dog's emotions and motivations! The dog is not cured, the problem is still there... just hidden... and waiting to explode like a time bomb.

Turn the sound off and watch just the dogs... and then tell me, that the dogs he trains are happy!

Vera

I turned him off after he had tried to rehab an APBT that was obsessed with stones by slapping in it the face for FORTY FIVE minutes  

>I  originally dismissed Cesar Milan as " just another trainer " but having watched his methods I found him to be a saviour in many ways by teaching owners to be pack leader and not be ruled by their dogs.

What's pack leader?  IMO, a group of dogs is about being in harmony as a single cohesive social unit, constantly communicating, constantly interchanging, taking the lead role and giving the lead role to another when the situation warrants it and knowing when to do it.  That's balance.    

I also believe that humans can work with dogs as part of a group, and dogs can and do see us as part of their group; they can and do nominate another species to take the lead in situations, i.e. human, providing that person is worthy of the privilege.  I also think dogs feel more secure when there are capable others in their group.  There is nothing as wonderful as working with dogs as a single unit.  Communication is a 2 way thing, not only do we teach dogs but they teach us too and we should give them respect by watching, listening and taking heed. 

As for CM poking dogs in the neck, alpha rolls and throwing dogs - utter tosh, totally unnecessary and demonstrates a failing as a dog trainer and human being IMO.  However, I completely agree with energy, dogs are very in tune with energy, feel and nature IMO.  

My 2 get loads of greets when I come home, I get a licked face - yes I often greet them down on my knees because it's important to them; Shebs gets up on the sofa, Spender sticks his head in the cupboard to pull his treat out when I open it amongst other things:rolleyes: :-D, but most importantly we listen and watch.  Never had an Alfa roll or pain enforcing collars in their lives etc, etc and I am both humbled and honoured to have a wonderful and extremely close relationship with them.   

"gentle leaders and haltis were not around then"-but they are now, so why not opt to use them? i won't critisise the use of a check chain, we have used them for all of our dogs, but when used correctly they are not painful to them. "we are dealing here with dogs coming in  rescue that  can weigh 8 stone and can drag us everywhere" well my Tio ways about 12 stone i'd say, he's a big boy and my 8 stone mother can walk him, as can my dad with terrible neck problems, by correct use of encouragement and firm (but not brutal) use of a check or a halti. you however are talking about rehab of rescue dogs rather than pups trained from infancy, however the BEST behaved dog we ever had on lead was our rescue mastiff. Odin had never been walked on lead before coming to us, a few weeks with a halti and some treats had him walking to heel perfectly, even off lead unless at the park. i really don't think you need to throttle a dog to get it to do things your way. I'm not going to villify cesar milan as i think a few of his ideas have merit but i don't like the overt dominance, imo an alpha doesn't need to try that hard, it's in the bearing and behaviour with the dog.

Comments in earlier posts about chains- I agree not using a big link heavy chain on a small dog and fine chains are ok on trained dog BUT a lot of people will get a 'nice light 'chain for a bigger dog as 'its not as nasty' as a heavier/bigger link one. what they don't realise is that something like a 'show chain' for a dobe is like a cheese wire with the wrong hands on the lead.
Chris

Know what you mean Chris.  It happens often in my breed (but not my type) It's not nice.  It doesn't look good and it's quite obviously not comfortable for the dog.

your right about that i think, you do need to opt for the right thickness of chain for the breed/individual dog