Today I caught an episode of DD&D.   One was lying with his top off on the floor, the other was kneeling beside him with a young woman holding a bottle of hot chilli sauce.  Two children aged 9/10 were on stools either side.   The hot chilli sauce was poured into the belly button of the one on the floor and the other licked it out.  Is this what is deemed suitable for children today?? I find this totally unsuitable for a children's programme, and more suited to a drunken club 18-30 party.  But am I over-reacting?  Is this considered normal  now?

Where do we draw the line?  how far a step is it from that to more adult behaviour involving  chocolate sauce and a child/chilren?  After all they have seen it on a children's TV Programme    We worry about our children being 'groomed' online, but where does the 'grooming' really start?

What is DD&D?

What you describe sounds sick and a complaint to the Broadcasting complaints people would be the next step.

I'm guessing it's 'Dick & Dom'? A children's programme? If so you're right and it's completely unsuitable. As you've seen it yourself you should definitely complain to the Broadcasting Standards people.

what on earth are you talking about? what is dd&d?

I don't know what DD&D is and I don't have any children but that sounds totally unsuitable - what next   However, I am really surprised at what my young nephews see on TV on programmes supposedly aimed at children.  Call me old fashioned but I wouldn't allow them to watch half of it.

CG

It's the name of the programme - Diddy Dick and Dom :rolleyes: 

Normally tv wouldn't be on at that time on a saturday, child and at least one parent, often both, are at orchestra, where child can do something a lot more fun than watch rubbish on tv ;)

Floella Benjamin, I believe, is trying to ensure that childrens' tv will be available in the future.  Can't see the point myself, there's almost nothing worth watching :(

I'm definately going to complain about this, it's totally inappropriate material for children of 8-12 (the age I believe it's aimed at) to watch :(

I'm sure many parents would consider me very old fashioned, but I do believe that children should be allowed to be children before they become adults, I'm sure Little-Un hasn't seen a quarter of the films/programmes many of his classmates have seen, but in my mind there's a reason for the ratings on movies and programmes.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth bothering to complain.

http://users.telenet.be/bartvanneste/stripanddom.htm  this makes for interesting reading, seems that the bbc censure on the one hand and encourage them on the other :rolleyes:

I've never really censored anything my kids watched,but what you're describing Dill sounds like an adult movie,not  a kiddies program.If this show is meant for kids then the content is most probably appropriate for children. My kids are 13 and 16 so can pretty much watch what they want now,(within reason ofcourse,sexual type movies are a no go),they know it's not real, and i tend to worry more about the real world outside than what they watch on the television screen ;)

this is a really interesting discussion actually. i'm a socology student and in one of our gender modules we were discussing the way in which sexulised gender seems to be being ascribed much much younger- even if you look at girls clothes now- knee high boots, halter tops, short skirts etc. these items are intended in adults to hold some connotation of sexual attractiveness, are they then appropriate for a nine year old? i know i started wearing 'older' stuff when i was about 12 but frankly thats mainly because when i was 12 i looked 16 and was er...fully formed shall we say so womens clothes were all i could get. the media does introduce sexual subjects into younger childrens socialisation. now i am all for children having sex education as early as possible, my mum (a nurse) had explained everything about the human reproductive system to me down to the last zygote by the time i was 8, but that the facts, not the suggestion that its something they should be interested in.

When magazines aimed at pre-pubescent girls started giving advice on how to perform various sexual activities I thought the bottom of the barrel had been reached. Apparantly not. This TV programme seems to have found a new low.

i think that magazines etc should discuss sexual issues but regarding sexual health and contraception. many kids don't have open minded parents who choose to fully educate them so they need to get their info from somewhere, the sex ed you get at school is laughable! they barely touched on it when i was at school, i had to explain things to friends of mine simply because my mother thought i should understand it. sex and an interest in it is natural part of growing up, but its a scary and dangerous thing, kids need to be prepared. but i quite agree that "Jackie" (do they still sell that??) and so on shouldn't be teaching technique or definitively kids programs should not parade itin such (its sounds like it anyway) a frivilous way- this is one of the ways that my city ends up with the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country

editied to say, i miss the great shows i had as a kid in the 80's, BRING BACK THE THUNDERCATS! they had morals at the end of the show!

>i quite agree that "Jackie" (do they still sell that??) and so on shouldn't be teaching technique

"Jackie" was defunct many years ago, and was one of the magazines that actually recommended chastity as being of prime importance, and was aimed at teenagers. The modern magazines are aimed at 10 year olds (think "Bunty" or "Mandy" in our day) and they also have articles on 'techniques', which I think is shocking.

lol, sorry jeangenie, jackie was a wee bit before my time, just said it as its widely known... what kind of techniques are we talking about? ifsay its contraceptives i'm all for it, but if it's for more intimate skills thats not really on

>what kind of techniques are we talking about?

There was an article in one magazine - average readership age of 12½ - about how to perform oral s*x.

Are these magazines actually aimed at pre-pubescent girls though.. or are they aimed at older girls and younger ones buy them?

(I dont know, but i used to read Just 17 when i was probably 11/12/13 (though Horse and Pony was more interesting), and that was aimed at the 15/16 ish age range NOT my age range. I used to read More magazine and that had sexual positions in it and was aimed at the age range 17/18/19 ish..).

16-19 ish for MORE! though is i think more appropriate as at least its legal. i wouldn't say its for that young though, i read it occasionally for a giggle (its so bad its funny!). i know what you mean aout j17 though, it did used to have that sort of stuff in it- though as i recall it had a lot on the dangers (medical pages etc) as well. a magazine aimed at pre teens that discusses oral is just not right though. i wouldn't be so naive or stupid to suggest that under 16's don't have sex (know for a fact they often do) but come on...

Oh was in the 'works' book shop today adn saw a Jackie Annual, so Jackie must still be around.

No, the annuals started being done as a retro trip down memory lane for us 70s gals a couple of years ago. It's not a regular magazine any more.

Suh :rolleyes: I did think the cover looked a tad dated, but I thought the fashions were just goign even more retro.

And I'm sure the print was never quite so small back in those days! ;) :D

Jackie, Mandy, judy
ALL grey type face!!!!!!!!!
Lea.

LOL JG!!

Oh how I agree, there are no children's clothes anymore, from the cradle apart from baby gro's they are scaled down adult clothes and I think it is horrid, especially the saucy provocative stuff for girls of four upwards.

Totally agree :(

I hate to see very young girls parading around (often at school parties :( )  looking like miniature prostitutes :( :(
When my daughter was little she wouldn't wear the provocative stuff - thank goodness as she wouldn't have been allowed!  We'd have had terrible rows over her clothes.  She still doesn't wear provocative clothes, thinks it's tacky ;)   

It isn't that I want to avoid my son knowing about sex and reproduction, in an appropriate way.  He knows all about the facts (also down to the last genome :) - love that! but so true)  I just don't think it's appropriate for him to be watching lascivious behaviour on a children's tv programme. 

I agree too. Many programmes shown before the watershed are a bit near the knuckle I feel. I know children are growing up more quickly nowadays but is that really something we should be proud of? Shouldn't we treasure their childhood. How often do you see little girls pushing toy prams around now? If you do then they are likely to be preschool age whereas we were still playing with them at 9 or 10.

Watched a programme the other night about a girl who had a baby at 13, they were trying to warn others off, not making it look wonderful, but with soaps portraying stories like this on a regular basis what are our kids supposed to think? The one on Corrie (sarah) really annoys me as she had an easy time bringing up a baby she had at 13 with lots of support from everyone around. I'd have portrayed her getting kicked out, struggling to cope and having a h*llish time of it, not playing happy families :( . Now we have a 17 year old having an affair with her teacher -do they all have to have the morals of an Alley cat?

I hate seeing kids in backless tops and mini skirts too, wouldn't buy them even if my daughter would wear them (she is more covered up than a nun by choice!! :D ) . Parents are lambasted from every direction but if your kids see stuff like this as being the norm then it makes it even harder to be a responsible parent. My daughter is 13, but looks 17 or 18 is 5ft 9 and needs adult size 12/14 clothes but I am always conscious of what Im buying and whether its appropriate for her age.

As the mother of a 12 yearold  girl, I have read the 'mizz' magazine.
Shocked as I was at some of the story headlines, actually reading them made it a little easier, they dealt with issues that I'd probably have been flustered at!
On the whole I had to appreciate the contents!
My daughter can be quite moralistic and while wanting to be fashionable is very aware of what is nice and what is not nice.
The girls are fairly pressurised by their peer group to conform, and we do have to support them the best way we can. That includes pointing out what is tasteful, they are quite harsh on each other from an early age, and girls in particular can be very unkind to each other!

Karen :rolleyes:

I no longer watch early evening news when my 6 yr old is here, I don't want him hearing about paedophiles (sp)? and rapists at his age and would prefer this kind of thing was saved for the 10 o' clock news.

back to the dick and dom thing, I wonder if parents are getting a little over protective ? dick and dom have always done stuff to make people go "urgh" and licking chilli sauce out of someones belly button would certainly make you go "urgh" especially a child who has no sexual experience, they wouldnt think of it as a sexual thing, and obviously its not intended as that, its the adults who read more into it (although I certainly wont be taking the chilli sauce to bed with me tonight )

and no, before anyone says it, im not a parent.

I have to say I watched that programme about the 13yr who was pregnant and was shocked that the boy wasn't made to face up to his responsibilities.
I was talking to my friend who works in a secondary school and she was saying about 90% of 13-14 yr olds are sexually active in their school. I know this isnt everywhere but in this area there are so many children pushing buggies around its scary. I dont want my children to ruin their lives by having children too early.

in my city it is, we have the worst teen pregnancy rate in the country. its so unnecissary...there are brilliant facillities here to help people avoid it- free advise, contraception and morning after pill etc are all widely available from (and i do know tis from experience) non scary sources. we have a place here called the corner that is only for under 21's, mainly aimed at a lot lower than that and the staff are lovely, not in anyway judemental etc, they just want to help. our local family planning are great to, with drop in all the time etc. it just makes me so sad that kids are so poorly educated about the help thats available :(

Eeeeek, my 12 1/2 year old boy goes very very embarresed and VERY bright red when you mention nacked ladies!!!!!!
Now he sees me naked, so not a taboo subject but he is embaressed by  seeing me naked and sex!!!
When I DARE to mention girls then he goes red!!!!
But then again, I coach kids that are very forward and even one the other day said he would like to be in bed with his chick Now from him I belive it was his bravado, but might not have been!!!!
Not all 12 YO are into sex, but I do know where you are coming from!!!
Lea.

>Now he sees me naked,

Far out,you're game My son is the exact same age and there is no way i would let him see me naked,same with my daughter who is a few years older,they arent innocent toddlers anymore ;) I dont want to see them naked either.I could not handle the thought of walking in and seeing either of them in the nud,that would just be weird and a little innapropriate.....

But just because we cover up doesnt mean we dont talk about it,there is nothing taboo in this house and never has been.

that would just be weird and a little innapropriate.....

Curious as to why you'd think it's innapropriate Kate?  I just don't see it
I used to sit on the loo seat whilst Mum was in the bath and have a chat, probably still would if I lived at home :-D

Same here I don't deliberately walk around naked in front of my kids age 16 and 20, but have never ahd issues with it and again don't lock the bathroom door and if soemone needs to use it while I am in the bath, or vice versa not a problem.

We never lock our bathroom door. I once had my 16 year old son bring a school form in for me to sign while I was sitting on the loo :D

hmmm, its strange isn't it? i'm fine with that with my mum and she seems to object to wearing clothes in the house lol :D but think it would be inappropriate if it was my dad

>Curious as to why you'd think it's innapropriate Kate?

Jmo ok? :D  Walking around naked infront of my 12 year old boy would be innapropriate,he is a young hormonal fella,as they all are at that age.Boobs are boobs,plus he and i would be very embarrased! My daughter has caught me out getting dressed on numerous occasions and i'm sure they heard the screams all the way down the street,LOL..accompanied by my daughters wails of "My eyes have been soiled" ala' Ralph from the simpsons.
They both come into the bathroom when i'm in the shower if they need something but they duly cover their eyes :p
And to be honest i really do not want to see my mum naked,never have,and i highly doubt my kids want or need to see me in the nuddy.
My daughter spends hours sometimes in the bathroom and i have been so tempted to peek in to see what she's doing,but the thought of seeing her naked stops me,i could not bear the thought of seeing either of my kids naked,it would really bother me.Like i said it would feel too weird and almost pervish.They arent babies/toddlers anymore.
I feel the same way about women who breastfeed for years,i've seen 3-4+ year olds hanging off their mothers boobs,this just makes me ill Kids dont need formula/breastmilk after 12mths of age,and to do it after that just seems odd.....
Like i said earlier wee can talk about anything without getting squirmish,we are far from a prudish household,very much the opposite,but i feel there is a time to draw the line.

Once again, I'm a little lost :-D  Forgive me!  I don't see the relevance of the breastfeeding for years point?   Maybe it's just me.

and i highly doubt my kids want or need to see me in the nuddy.

I'm confused at that bit too.  Where does 'need' come into it?  Isn't it just one of those perfectly normal things?

Of course, as you say, it's just your opinion, however, I find it strange that you would consider seeing your daughter naked as 'pervish' 

It seems a strange view for a parent to have, but then I'm not a parent.....though I do have parents...and same as you, my Mum and I are far from prudish, and we don't have a problem being naked in front of each other.

Each to their own I suppose :-)

I have to say I agree with Kate, I would have been very embarressed as a teenager to see either of my parents naked and although I obviously see my children naked now as they are only babies once they get older I too would find it a bit weird to see them or for them to see me naked. I'm not saying its wrong, each to their own some people feel comfortable with it some people don't.

Actually optimally children need milk for two years or more so in fact we are designed to produce milk for them for several years. 

We now take the milk of cows, but it isn't as good for a child as mothers milk.  Scientists now feel that unaltered Cows milk should not be fed in quantity until a baby is over 12 months so really a baby needs breast milk for at least a year, but we often compromise on a few months (6 or so)of breastfeeding and then move to formula gradually moving to cows milk, but this does mean that many many people have varying degrees of lactose intolerance, often manifesting in poor skin issues and unrecognised.

My kids have never had a smutty or embarrassed attitude to boobs as boobs are boobs an for feeding babies, not a sexual object so no more embarrassing than any other body part.

Maybe breeding the dogs helps but my two have never had the ooh er nudge nudge giggle giggle attitude to sexual matters.  they have been at matings and even helped out during a difficult one giving the dog a helpful shove or helping hold a bitch during the tie.  My son saw his first litter of pups born when he was 5 years old.

When they had sex education at school he came home and complained about his peers being silly as 'it was only sex'.

I haven't seen mien naked for a while, but no-one has problems with wandering around in scanty underwear, and no-one needs to close their eyes to use the bathroom.

What abotu chaging for swimming, often there si only a communal changing room and showers and you will ahve complete strnagers changing together, though sexes are segregated. 

What about saunas.  When I was in Finland I ahd a sauna with my hosts (3 geenrations of ladies not the men) and they were so relaxed about being nude together that I felt silly being all wrapped up prudishly in my towel and after a while relaxed and had no problem showering etc.

Kate i really take offense at your comment here

I feel the same way about women who breastfeed for years,i've seen 3-4+ year olds hanging off their mothers boobs,this just makes me ill mad Kids dont need formula/breastmilk after 12mths of age,

You obviously know very little about breastfeeding!!!!!!!!!! 

maybe before you make comments about things yuo know little about you should educate yourself to realise EXACTLY the benefits that are provided by nursing your child longer than a year...... for those of us who chose extended breastfeeding we do our research and we know exactly what benefits we are providing for our children.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html should help you out if your actually interested as opposed to making inaccurate comments!

I think this is slowly going off topic....

Everyone has a different view when it comes to raising their children and no 1 person will be right. Perhaps better to agree to disagree?

Mobby i read your link,and it still doesnt sit well with me. Once a child is up and running around i just dont see the point.At 12mths of age they are eating normal foods for each meal and the breast feeding thing is more of a comfort than anything.
I breastfed both my children,for various reasons they both moved to the bottle/formula <Blech> before 12mths of age,and at 1 year old the bottles went in the bin as they were drinking out of normal cups by then.At around 2 years old i encouraged them to throw their dummies away as they were toilet trained and wernt babies anymore.
Mobby you probably feel just as strongly for children(not babies) breastfeeding as i do against it.In my opinion there is something just not right about a 3+ year old on it's mothers boob.I agree there is nothing better than mothers milk,but for how long they need it is up for debate IMO.
What about those mothers that come into school at their kids lunchtimes and breastfeed their kids,eg 5 year old boys,do you find that ok aswell? I would love to debate this,but in a new thread perhaps? :)

Lissie-Lou you just wait till you have kids,i bet your attitude will change ;) :)

Brainless we have no problems walking around in underwear either. Up until recently i turned the shower on for my son as he could never get the temp/pressure right,however he could rest easy that i would never watch him undress or look at him as he was getting in the shower,which i never ever did.Just the other week he said he would feel more comfortable if i didnt do it for him anymore as "he's getting older now and doesnt think mum should be in the room when he's naked" Fair enough,i said :)

I've never used communal showers or changing rooms,neither have my kids i dont think,it's never been an issue. I used to hate,hate,hate it when i went to the pool as a youngster and the older women wandered around naked without a care,i thought they were so rude and inconsiderate :D :p

What is so different about a child drinking out of a bottle than a breast?? womens breasts are designed for feeding children! it is the most natural thing in the world!!!!!! 

I personally wouldn't breastfeed a child of 5, but then i doubt most 5 year olds would want it. The point im trying to make is im prochoice... if someone wants to, fine.. if they dont.. fine, but dont judge others because of it.

Parenting is hard enough without turning on each other because of choices...... i dont believe in using dummies, but i wouldn't look at a child with one and critise his/her parents...... just as i dont expect to be judged.

would welcome a debate on it :)

>What is so different about a child drinking out of a bottle than a breast??

What do you mean??Like i said  my problem is not against "Babies" being breastfed,like you said,it is the most natural thing in the world,it is the older kids,and i feel the same about those older kids that have bottles aswell.You regularly see kindergarten age children with a bottle in one hand and a dummy in the other :rolleyes: What is the point of this??? I have a huge gripe with parents who put their children to bed with a bottle aswell
FTR i stopped night time feeds at 8 weeks,and if memory serves they were down to 2 milk feeds a day from 6 to 12mths.

well mine slept through the night at birth :P

sorry couldn't resist! :D

got to go to work now but will come back to this later :D

>well mine slept through the night at birth

ROFL :D Touche'! I deserved that :p

I brought the subject of nudity and our kids up today when i was at the families,everyone was there with a huge mix of different opinions and ages,and the general concensus was "Respect".We dont look at our kids naked and vice versa out of respect for one anothers privacy and personal space.

I was reading an old book yesterday and it was all about children seeing you naked from early on, then they won't question it if some time they see you naked.  It was quite interesting actually.

It was a 1969 book on what to do around the house and your family.  Some of it was really funny though and I couldn't help laughing at many comments.

I'll bet that was one of the books that we had :D - did the illustrations show a guy with a beard ????:D :D :D

Margot x