Lissie-Lou you just wait till you have kids,i bet your attitude will change 

:-D Kate, I haven't got a maternal bone in my body, I won't have any :-D

Hmmm I said that too and ended up with three...

Hmmm I said that too and ended up with three...

Lol, loads of my friends said the same too Anna and have 2 or 3 children now.  I remember telling my Mum when I was 13 or so, you'll never have Grandchildren from me, after watching something about somebody giving birth.  I'm 30 now, and have never changed my mind.  I'm just not at all maternal (I possibly need to grow up myself first!!).  Who knows though?  I might change yet!

Same here my very good with children neighbour having seen the mess some of her siblings made of marriage and children decided with her partner not to have children, after 20 years together and careful family planning she ended up pregnant, she just had her second 2 months before her 40th birthday.

i went to the pool as a youngster and the older women wandered around naked without a care,i thought they were so rude and inconsiderate

Not getting at you Ktee, you feel how you feel and you cant change that..

But I wonder WHY being naked is 'rude and inconsiderate'... its only skin!

I was brought up probably the polar opposite of you - naked people from kids to adults were whilst not every day nor was I surrounded by them, were nothing to raise an eyebrow at.

(Dont start thinking i spent time on nudist camps or naturist colonies... lol i didnt)... I saw both my parents naked, i ran around naked on various beaches until i was probably six or seven and then i wore knickers, didnt start wearing a swimming cossie till 8/9 ish.

I saw other kids naked, various other adults naked (communal showers at the caving club, required or we'd have been very muddy for entire weekends!, or swimming in rivers/lakes etc)...

So i grew up knowing what people looked like without clothes and being thoroughly unconcerned by it. I still hit my teens and didnt want to be naked in front of others but that was more about the cruelty of children and everyone making rude comments about everyone else (and id say THAT stems from NOT being comfy/at ease with nakedness).

But when my peers were interested in what the opposite sex's bits looked like, I wasnt bothered, I already knew and it was no big deal. I had no interest in the 'ill show you mine if you show me yours' games that small children play. There was no burning desire to do these things, nor any feeling that such thigns were 'naughty' because they werent, they were just bodies and skin and thats all, so there was no urge to break any rules and do 'bad things' because to me they werent bad!

I think these things, like the original topic - licking food off another person, only have 'rude/bad/naughty/sexual' connotations if we ADULTS give them those! If we tell children that these things are sexual/wrong/bad then thats how children will see them.

Case in point, my friends 4 year old, going round a party kissing everyone nightnight - he's a sneaky habit of sticking his tongue in your mouth. Sexual? Of course not, he just thinks it feels nice and also he finds it HILARIOUS when the adult in question goes 'blarghhhhhh'.

If someone TOLD him that that was wrong/bad/etc because we adults do that as part of sexual practices, what would that achieve? A horribly embarrassed little boy, it would inhibit him, it wouldnt serve any useful purpose.

He will grow up and he will learn you dont stick your tongue in peoples mouths naturally, without any horridness.

I think its shameful really, what has happened that parents cannot see their own children naked without feeling that that is wrong.

>But I wonder WHY being naked is 'rude and inconsiderate'... its only skin!

I think the main issue was that they were always fat with huge saggy bosoms and an overly huge black forest(sorry),it was just really gross to look at and we really thought that they shouldnt be subjecting us all to it.Then you get the young nubile things who were/are seen as exhibitionists,the same could also be said for the older ladies.There was no discretion or modesty,they walked around as normal,the least they could have done is held a towel over themselves when they got dressed.
As is the case now as it was then there were always changerooms with doors on them and the same with showers,there was no need to parade around in the public area.If i want to see nigedy people i'll go to a nudist beach :D
I just dont think it's appropriate for children to be subjected to nude adults,parents and especially not strangers!

Theemx my folks have got plenty of butt naked shots of me running around on the beach,i wasnt into swim wear when i was 7 and younger either.

As for the 4 year old sticking his tongue in peoples mouths I would like to know exactly where this habit came from,most children wouldnt even think to do this and would find it pretty gross.Havnt the parents told him to stop if only for hygeine purposes,not to mention the fact that it's a pretty rude thing to do?

>I think its shameful really, what has happened that parents cannot see their own children naked without feeling that that is wrong

My kids arent children anymore,they are teenagers and i feel they need their privacy in this department,not that we have ever discussed it indepth,i've made sure not to give them a complex about their bodies,but they can rest assured that they can leave the bathroom door unlocked and that i'm not going to walk  in on them.

sorry to post twice on this but i've only just read yours properly. gotta say that "they were always fat with huge saggy bosoms and an overly huge black forest(sorry),it was just really gross to look at" is surely a bit harsh? who are you to say that they are gross? that sort of shape used to be worshipped (lol a younger version still is by my boyfriend ) overweight people exist and by the way often have quite nice bodies and do not always have saggy boobs thanks very much. so to confirm your issue is not with the nudity itself but with the lifestyle choices and age of the people involved and the natural condition that that age leaves the body in? as well as potentially the genetic component that can dictate the shape of a person? if there were "always changerooms with doors on them" why not use them and not look?

Slightly off topic to this, but I find it rather comforting to be around real women of all shapes and sizes and ages, as otherwise the only nude women we see are in the media and their perfection makes the rest of us feel pretty inadequate. 

When I was in the Sauna with the Finnish ladies, one nubile early 20's the other a child of 10 and the hostess a lady of around 50 who had 6 year old twins the 10 year old and kids in her 20, so her body had taken some knocks, made me feel far better about my own plus size bod.

The Dove adverts are similar in that they show real women.

dunno ktee, in a public changing room i don't think its inconsiderate to be exposed, and why the specific older women? surely its a good thing that these women were comfortable with their bodies? women all have the same bits so i doubt anyone would be to shocked.

>and why the specific older women?

Because we werechildren,anyone over 30 was probably ancient to us :D And just to reiterate i did mention the young nubile 20 year olds who paraded around aswell,so it wasnt always the older ladies!

This topic has really got me thinking and i was wondering if i was a little strange not wanting to see my teenage kids naked,nor them me,but i have asked literally dozens of friends and family over the past few days,most of which have teenage/adult children(i also asked them) and NONE of them did the naked thing on both sides after toddlerdom,all concurred that it would be innapropriate.Absolutely none of the teens would be seen dead naked infront of their parents,and apparantly neither would their friends or parents.So i think the free approach people are in the minority.
I bought my daughter a lacy bra and knicker set for christmas which she happily tried on and showed us(me,my mum and her brother),but i think thats as far as she should/would go.My sisters girls,aged 13 and 17 wont even walk around the house in their bra and undies!

I'm by no means a tiny size 6,more a generous 14, which is why  my OH hasnt seen me naked in a lot of years.But i admit thats a big problem on my behalf,if i dont like my body i cant expect anyone else to.

no i agree, not all 12 year olds are interested in this, but in general its the sort of time that many become interested as they go through puberty

Yep it was about the time I became interested in my body and curious about others.  Thankfully and unusually we had a very with it home ec. teacher who called a spade a spade and was very modern in her sex education program. 

She talked to the girls and boys (separately and together) about how they may feel arousal, masturbation, anger etc and how the hormones influenced these things. 

Birth control was firmly covered and she was very non judgemental, but heavy on the responsibilities to ourselves and others.

She used humour a fair bit.

This was 1976 - 78

well done to hersounds like a wonderful teacher

I find it hard to explain to my six year old daughter why two men are kissing in Emmerdale which is on at 7.00.:rolleyes: They don't show heterosexuals kissing and getting out of bed all the time so why do they have to show these two men doing it?

It shouldnt be difficult to explain it these days, being gay is very open, kids need to learn from a young age about different types of sexuality, it stops homophobia later in life.

I personally think there is plenty of time to learn about that when they are a bit older.:rolleyes:

anna it is the kind of understanding that is best socialised from a young age, then they don't have hangups to overcome or become confused about it when they may be older and are not sure how to approach the subject (for example self conscious teenagers)

How is it hard to explain?

"Why are those two men kissing each other"

"Because they like each other a lot."

Shes only six, that is surely sufficient.

I think you'll find they do show hetrosexuals kissing all the time, you just don't notice it, lets hope one day people will just not notice when two men or two women kiss. Thats why it is important to show it on the tv :) I always think it's funny that people don't notice a man and a woman all over each other at a bus stop, but complain that two men holding hands walking down the street are 'ramming their sexuality down others throats'.

Thinking of Emmerdale recently, and I don't watch it that often, but I've seen the vicars wifes parents ripping each others clothes off, That pollard bloke kissing two different women (including reference to some 'strange' fun) the young king girl kissing Daz, Andy and his missus kissing, the older king brother kissing his dead dads ex mistress, the journalist girl kissing pollards son...sure there's lots more :D

Must just be me that's uncomfy with it then.:rolleyes:

Hopefully just you, and hopefully you're not passing your 'uncomfortableness' onto another generation :)

If I am I am...:rolleyes:

Anna, it isn't just you!!  :)

Thank goodness for that.  I have no problem with gay people at all but I think that Emmerdale is going a bit over the top lately.  I wasn't happy about the Eric Pollard sex scene either - after 9 oclock it would be fine but at 7 o'clock right after Cbeebies goes off I just find it a bit much.

um...other programs etc do show hetrosexual relationships all the time...for example does your daughter ever watch disney films? neighbours? i think its great that popular television is openly supporting the socialisation of homosexual relationships as natural things

Just a point raised.
I have never let anyone but Boyfriends, doctors or my kids see me naked and have never been in a changing room with loads of women getting undressed and showered until the other week.
We got back from running, me and a mate, to shower before all the rest got back as it was communal showers.
We showered together (she had never been naked in front of anyone before either) and then got ready. Well all the rest got back just after us and started stripping off and showering, me still half naked. Made me realise it is normal and they dont stare at you, judge your body etc etc
So will be more inclined to have a shower after running more often instead of wipeing over with baby wipes ;)
Funny how your perceptions change over the years as always said I would never get showered in a communal shower!!
Lea.

I've had to go back and undo my "ignore" button in order to make sense of this thread:rolleyes: :D

In response to your first question, Dill, no I do not think you are over-reacting - and I have no doubt that complaints will have been made to the TV programmers about such actions on a CBBC network :  this is certainly not the sort of thing that I would think that anyone other than a teenager would feel appropriate TV for children!  Likewise, I share the concern about the "Tarty" clothes available for little girls - I shudder at the "I love Troy" teeshirts produced by DISNEY, for goodness sake, as a spin-off of the High School Musical mania at the moment - available in size 4-5?????!!!

But I do cringe at some of the posts here directed at nudity - I think that I only once ever saw my mother naked as a teenager and it horrified me - as did the communal showers that were compulsory at my school - only able to skip them if I "had my time"......so many of us claimed this every week that the gym teacher started making notes and threatening to send us to the school doctor for having problems at such an early age..........

However, I am of the Hippy /Feminism generation :rolleyes::rolleyes: and soon realised that nudity only becomes a problem if it is treated as if it IS the problem ......at home, our children were used to seeing us wandering around naked if we were dressing/bathing etc - and in fact we took our attitude from them - once they started to feel self-conscious about it and wanted towel/dressing gown/underwear on before venturing out of the bathroom/bedroom, then so did we - but at the same time they would come in and chat whilst we were dressing etc with absolutely no embarrassment.

To complain about the "ugliness" of the naked body shows great immaturity - surely one should applaud the elderly women who are confident enough to wander around showing stretch marks et al - they are the markers that we should be giving to our teenage daughters, not those of the skinny size zero model with stick thin arms and legs and augmented breasts!   We should be teaching our youngsters that beauty isn't in the appearance of the body - its what comes from deep inside the head and heart.

I've been lucky enough to use the Onsens (hot baths) in Japan - and there, you will get complete families - from babies to grandparents - using the hot springs - it is bad manners to look at the other bathers, just as it is considered bad manners to wear a swimming cossie (unless one is a gwei-jo - furriner :D) the bath is the important thing.

And although I do use communal showering areas now if I have to, I do prefer to use a private changing area, just so people don't see my fight to get into my clothes!!

Margot 

Margot

Well said, Margot.

I was once reminded that we're told that Adam and Eve were thrown out of Eden for being ashamed of nudity - that the shame was sinful, not the nudity ...

People come in all shapes and sizes, and it's through only seeing young, thin, 'perfect' (air-brushed ;)) bodies that results in so much unhappiness and discontent, and is the cause of so many eating disorders. No wonder people find reality hard to deal with!

It's quite a mixed bag of reactions which I guess is pretty normal. :-D

My two penny worth is that, I was brought up with a very prudish mum, she would have died if we'd walked in on her naked in the bathroom. :-D Even today she turns around to try on a top or something I have bought her. Now that makes me laugh (inwardly) as I think she is being silly, but that is her and I'm respectful of that, to be honest I think it made my brothers when younger more inquisitive as to what she was hiding. :-D

Now, I'm different have never had a problem with my boys catching me naked in the shower or bath or getting dressed.  As they have got older they have automatically knocked, but they are not like their friends looking in mags and getting excited at seeing the odd boob here and there, as it is nothing new to them. ;-)

Nudity is fine as long as that is all it is, anything steering towards being sexual I don't agree with before 9pm. Personally I think it makes young children more aware of sex, asking questions about it well before they should, leading to some wanting to experiment themselves and copy what they have seen. Everything in it's own time is what I believe in. There still may be just kissing going on, but now it is touchy feely, sometimes downright groping then you see them in bed in the morning, so it leads to questions?????

I breast fed until my youngest was 2, but I agree I would inwardly cringe at seeing a child between 3-5 breast feed, each to their own but not my thing.

And although I am not prudish with my own body with family and friends, I hate open changing rooms, because I don't want to be forced to look at others. And yes, I too didn't like seeing others no matter what their body shapes walking around naked at swimming baths, I used to always go in the changing units if poss I don't enjoy anyone seeing all my bits at all either, I still have that 'my body is for me, my hubby and whoever I wish to share it with' not for the woman down the road at No.9 to see. :-D

Nope we never watch neighbours and I have never seen anything in the Disney films she has. 

Wow!

Such a mixture of reactions, but so glad I'm not totally out of touch (thanks Brainless et al. ) 

I don't have a problem with my child watching Neighbours, Emmerdale, Corrie, Eastenders, James Bond etc.   Showing Loving relationships of whichever kind isn't a problem, we use these programmes as material for discussions/education ;) but we are aware that they aren't aimed primarily at children and may contain adult content ;) :)

What I have a problem with is Lascivious behaviour on CBBC !  Programmes aimed specifically at children, which I wouldn't expect to have to supervise or vet

Similarly, we don't make a fuss about nudity, but I don't parade around in the nuddy, it's not a pretty sight these days - I look a bit like Frankenstein's wife LOL. 

lol, dill can i say WONDERFUL use of "lavacious", its a lovely word to say, great sound to it

'Lascivious', not 'lavacious'! ;)

hetrosexual kissing is what i was refering to as you mentioned homosexual kissing in your previous post...ariel/eric, beauty/beast (when no longer beastly), cinderella/prince charming... (myself and my flatmate enjoy the childish fun of disney i must confess)