Have just watched this on Channel 5 and although I cried through some of it was pleasantly surprised that it made the dogs, in most cases, appear to be victims and that people were to blame for allowing their dogs to be out of control. I was stunned at the so called 'character' test for those poor German dogs. How many of our dogs would react well whilst being walked into, hand waved in front of the face and having a bin banged right next to you?

After such a positive without over sentimentality of the BBC1 prog 'Man Meets Dog' I thought oh no another demonisation of mans best friend. I am releived to hear it wasn't as bad as I feared, I missed it due to being at Richmond, followed by a family reunion!

Sorry, didn't see that you were cross-posting this on the other boards, so I'll go ahead and ask my question here since I only occasionally read the responses in those other places:

Not having seen the program, I would like to know what the character test (sounds much like the American Temperment test)involved and why you were stunned. By stunned, did you mean dismayed, horrified or did you mean amazed (in a good way)?

I dident see the program but know alot about the situation as a Staffie and English Bull Terrier owner (2 of the breeds included in the ban list)
I just think its horrific that a nation can bann Breeds of dogs after a few incidents!
Why on Earth dont the goverment pass a law that makes it difficalt for people to buy dogs and make sure everyone registers with the police and micro chip all the animals surely this would stop the problem of unsavory charecters owners Dogs with agressive backgrounds and bringing out the worse in the dog??
Its not just Germanys problem, this is world wide.
In America, if your dog savages a person the dog is destroyed and the owner faces charges because they are responsable for training and supervising/caring for that dog at all times.
People dont need to take responsability for their actions anymore because there is always an easy way out, just bann the breeds that look nasty!
Im disgusted.
Sorry to vent
Lucy X

I did see the programme, and it did seem to focus on the bull breeds, one couple in America are being charged with murder and manslaughter after their dogs killed a neighbour in the block of flats where they live.
As for the character test, well I'm not sure my dogs would pass it, but to be honest all the things were what you would face in normal life, people brushing past the dog in a hurry, children waving toys or hands at dogs face level, things being bang as you are passing, other dogs passing by, ok perhaps they were taken to the extreme, but the dog they showed did pass and I think that shows in itself, what lengths the owners have gone to bring up a well mannered, well socialised dog and thus saved it's life, something we should all think about, after all as the programme pointed out the anti dog laws are spreading around the world.

Sounds like the way a temperment test is conducted by the American Temperment Test Society after reading your explanation. The site also has statistics for breeds. The whole purpose of the test is that any dog with a sound temperment should be able to pass the test without 'training' for it. The various stimuli used correlates to sights, sounds, and even textures that the dog may come across in everyday living. A dog that jumps back from an umbrella suddenly popping open would not be failed *if* the dog then recovered quickly and was inquisitive (and had enough self-security) to approach what had scared him and ascertain that it was nothing to be afraid of.

You're very correct in saying that in the US, dog owners are responsible for the actions of their dogs, both criminally and civilly. There are various cities, towns, and even states, though, that have their own 'banned dog' lists. In some cases, owners of banned breeds (which include rottweilers, staffies, gsds, etc) take a risk in bringing these breeds into dog shows held in these cities. You might be able to get further information on dog legislation effecting various breeds by contacting the American Kennel Club. Hope this helps.

Hi Lucy,
I did not see the programme, do not get BBC in Germany. Was the programme mentioning the situation in Germany, and that is why you mention your two breeds, or are you in Germany, Sorry not seeing the programme don't know why you mentioned this. But It is a big problem here with these banned breeds, I know many British Forces that have requested to return to England because they own the category 1 breeds. It is very much the Staffordshire Bull Terrier that has had the biggest problem, I have only ever met lovely staffies that I could have easily taken home. I have to carry a licence for my dogs, at all times when they are with me. Thankfully in the Lande where I live a cat 4 dog (over 40cm to shoulder and/or 20kg) if owned for more than 3 years without any reported problems you now do not have to take a temperament test. But I still have to register as owning cat 4 Dogs, where the paper states it is a dangerous dogs. Absolutely crazy, My Tess being 16 partially blind, deaf and not always steady on her feet and she is classed as dangerous! Oddly enough the GSD is a cat 4, my other dog, It is not cat 2 like the Rottie or Dobermman (not that I have a problem with thiese dogs I hasten to add) And my German friends have explained that the SV is a very powerful club, both in size and influence, so the GSD was not actually Catagorized other than its size. I dont know if this is true.
My point is that I feel very sorry for the Staffie and their owners here in Germany.
I have heard of some terrible stories, especially of incidents in Hamburg, but I do not how much truth there is in them or whether it is just the hysteria that is still felt. I do know that it is not an unheard practice here of pulling dogs teeth! Also I know and have been officially informed that if anyone makes a complaint about my dog, being in any way vicious without any investigation the german police can enter my house whether I am here or not and if they feel it is needed shoot my dog on the spot. This is if they feel the dog is threatening them, but what dog is going to OK about someone busting into your house. So as a dog owner it is always there that someone could maliciously report your dogs. Only being informed recently of this fact I am concerned about having to spend another 3 years here.
Beccy

For details of breed specific legislation and the situation in Europe have a look at Dogwatch. or Dominodogs.

Leigh

Neither of my dogs would retaliate in an agressive manner if a bin bag was dropped near them or an umbrella put in thier face. I know Beau (my 4 year old Staffie) would probably jump out of his skin but would never turn and bite, with or without reason, hes just not been brought up that way.
I myself have a 2 year old son and completely trust Beau with him, they are and have always been inseprable. I certainly would NOT keep dogs in my house around my family if they were in any way agressive!
Bessie is only 10 weeks old so I cant really bring her into the issue. All I know is she is brought up in a happy family with kids and other dogs and will be obedience trained as Bodie was.
I do feel all these breeds have a bad name because of the "status symbol" they seem to be.
Its all wrong, I just hope it doesent go to the extream where they ban the breeds here aswell. I will lose my 2 most loyal best friends I have ever had the pleasure to know.
Sadly yours
Lucy

As was said in the programme, the German reaction was to a 6yo child being killed in a park by 2 bull terrier type dogs, owned by someone known to the police, once again an irresponsible owner brings about yet more trouble for responsible dog owners.
Lucy being a GSD owner I have suffered these prejudices for many years and like you cannot understand why an entire breed is condemn for the behaviour of a few bad owners who do not bring up their dogs properly. All the staffies and english bul terriers I know are lovely dogs and no danger at all and I am sure your Bessie will grow up in the same way.

From what i read, the owner of the 2 dogs was not just irresponsible but downright evil, as he had taught his dogs to fight other dogs and trained them on tyres etc in the playground where the child was. He used his dogs as status symbols of the macho type - stupid stupid man.

He was also a drug dealer and apparently the dog who attacked was also high on drugs.

I feel that this "owner" should have been locked away for good and the key thrown away. Well actually perhpas the death penalty, becuase a little child died because of him and now dogs all over the place are suffering. He is really a murderer.

Hiya Beccy.
I mentioned my Dogs as they are both on the breed Ban list in Germany( I currently live in the UK)
Aside from the programm (which I also dident see)this issue in Germany has been advertised on Staffie and Bull Terrier related sites since the beginning of the year so I was just saying that this is not a new problem.
I agree 150% with Lindsay, the owner should have been punished for his dogs actions because he is reponsable for thier training and up-bringing.
I was appauled when I heard that because od this sick, ignorant man millions of dogs will suffer the consiquences all over Europe.
The trained dogs that attacked this poor little boy were actally American Staffords (considerably bigger than thier British Cousins) unfortunatly people dont see that, any dog that looks remotely like that breed will suffer....even dogs that dont resemble will be punished! Its crazy!
It started with a Ban on Pitt Bulls, I know every Staffie/ BT/ Rottie/ Dobe/ (Far too long to list) will be praying that this bill is not passed here.....I for one would stand outside the houses of parliment with my 2 so anyone walking past could meet them just to see how wonderfull these so called "dangerus" breeds can be!
Hmm thats not a bad idea actually!
Lucy X
Ps: sorry for ranting....I cant help but feel sadened by it all

Hi Lucy,
You are right to rant on. You are also so right that it was an American Staffie that was involved in this tradgic incident. The german authorities do not differentiate between the English and American, not that I have a problem with the American. The couple and the two dogs involved have already had problems with their dogs and the man I believe had an interesting criminal record, drug related I think.
There are parts of this knee jerk DDA here that I do agree with. It does target people, for instance if you have a serious criminal record you are not allowed to own certain breeds, which I think is a good move, as it is keeping these dogs out of 'bad hands' which has to be good for the dog, the breed and the rest of the people. I understand peoples comments on owning a breed that there is an obvious bias towards, I own a GSD, although I do not think we have as much bias towards us as other breeds.
Beccy

The point that a lot of people are missing is that in some 'Lands' any dog over 20kg and 40cm height can be in danger, that is a huge number of breeds. That would oinclude most Gundogs, hounds, and Some of the larger Companion breeds. I don't know if my breed would pass the temperament tests, as most spitz will bark at anything that interests, or surprises them, does having big gobs make them dangerous, you should see how loud they can be when they play!

We all need to take our 40cm and 20kg plus dogs outside the German embassy, to show how ridiculous the laws are. Take lots of Guide Dogs and all those that are normally perceived as inoffensive. As well as the misunderstood breeds with bad PR.

Hi Brainless,
I take your point about the 40cm and/or 20kg, it is crazy. In my previous posting here I mentioned that living in Germany at present I have had to registered my 16 year old Border Collie bitch as a Cat 4 listed dog under the DDA. The paperwork clearly states that this is paperwork for a Dangerous Dog! As you would expect at her age her sight and hearing are failing and she is somewhat unsteady sometime and the only danger she is, is to herself. I really resent that she has to be registered and to top it all I had to pay 170DMs for the pleasure (not that the cost is the issue). I have to carry her 'licence' when ever she is with me, as I could be asked to produce it at anytime.