my 12 week old cocker puppy has started to show a worrying change in her attitude and behaviour over the last 1-2 weeks? getting to the stage that she is biting a lot at my self and the kids also if she is playing with her toys and you try to take them away from her she starts to growl!! i have read the bite stops here, so i am looking for different advice as well.

Hi kopkid,

with due continuity and patience you will almost certainly find that the bite stops here article is your most useful tool in this situation ;)  At a mere 12 weeks your puppy is still VERY young and it is much too early to expect to have any typical puppy behaviours turned around - so try to stay positive and upbeat as progress may seem little and slow for now but should soon start to become more obvious :)

Re toy guarding issues, it is better to remove them for now and only provide one toy at a time for supervised games - ideally without the children having too much interaction as kids can easily become over excited and this will encourage a similar response in the puppy.

If the puppy needs a "time-out" situation, it is better to remove the humans from the room than the pup as ideally overtly demanding behaviour etc should be ignored and lifting the puppy away from the situation can be in its eyes a form of attention - it's not always easy but try to think of how you would behave with a toddler's tantrum for example and apply similar tactics :)

HTH, keep up the hard work as it will pay dividends in the long run.
best wishes. Teri

Are you just trying to take the toys away without offering her anythign in return?

As far as a dog is concerned, what is in it's mouth is it's proprty, and it will try and 'defend' it if you try and take it. I strongly believe that growling is a good thing, as it is not being aggressive, it is a warning behaviour to let you know the dog doesn't like something. You need to get your pup to accept, or like, the fact that you are taking something  that is hers. The best way to do this is to offer something to pup will percieve as 'higher value' when taking something from her. So, for example, offer her a tasty treat. She will then drop whatever is in her mouth to get the treat, meaning you can safely pick up whatever she had.

Also teach her the 'off' command using food treats at first, then progressing to toys, bones etc.  (Gwen Baileys book 'Puppy School' has lots of traning tips in it, and is very good, as is her book 'The Perfect Puppy')

Don't let her get the upper hand, keep taking the toys away from her, she must learn that you say and she does.

Under no circumstances do I ever allow my dogs to growl at me!  If they do, they are told off and put outside for time out.  Billy used to growl at us when we disturbed him by moving while we were all cuddling up on the sofa and got repeatedly (but gently) pushed off for his cheek.  He soon learned his place!  I also get them in the habit of taking things away from them and still do so even now they are both adults.  At the end of the day, we are the top dogs and any property of theirs is theirs because of our benevolence (as far as they are concerned).  They also have to work for any special treats and are not allowed to assume that they have a divine right to everything.  This includes toys and we always have special 'reserve' toys that 'belong' to us and the dogs are allowed them when we choose to play with them.  I am sorry if people do not agree with this but we have two lovely, sweet, non aggressive, happy, non snappy jrts and little Billy was really quite wilful and snappy when we first got him. 

The problem with telling a dog off for growling is that it learns not to growl. It doesn't learn not to be upset by whatever was making it growl in the first place, which means it could well still be upset by those things, but just doesn't growl. It probably still shows other dog signs of displeasure, but most of these are too subtle for most humans to notice, which means that if they do bite, people say they are biting without warning.

'Pack theory' or being 'top dog' is hugely flawed for several reasons. Pack theory is based on wolves, dogs are not wolves. We are not dogs, and dogs know this, plus, the reasearch done on wolf packs was a very small study and it is now proven that wolves do not even behave in the way they were thought to. Our dogs do not need us to dominate them, what they need is to have a leader they can trust and respect. THAT is how dogs would behave in the wild, and it has nothing to do with eating before them, going through doors before them or anything else like that.

I happily feed my dog before me, treat her with respect and have never resorted to physical punishment. She has growled at me twice in her whole life. Once when she was a pup and once as an adult whens he had her first chicken wing! She was never told off for it and has never done it again, purely because I understand her behaviour, that doggy behaviour is not the same as human behaviour and i don't push my luck with her. She is a working trained dog and one of the best behaved I have ever met.

Sorry - I really cant condone that sort of attitude as it could very easily have the reverse result :(

There is no need to play power games with a 12 week old puppy!  As Jackson has said above, and as aknowledged by a great many involved in training and behaviours, far better to play "swap" - IME there is no need to turn anything into a battle when there are far more effective ways of avoiding issues in the first place ;)  Possessive behaviours only become that (whether over toys, food, fave spots on the furniture etc) if we give the cue to our youngsters that there's a need to be possessive/defensive in the first place.  Such as in adopting the attitude of "if I want to take it away I will!"  All that serves to do is prove to the pup that it's fears of losing its much prized possession were well founded - not exactly the best footing IMO for a happy and trusting relationship :)

There are so many different thoughts on this one and yes swaps does work, but surely it does depend upon the character and breed of the the dog in question? What you as the owner expects in your own home matters, as old fashioned as that may seem. I have had Dobermanns, hounds and JRT's and I just won't have possessive aggression in my house. It shows in my dogs who will share everything, even with a strange dog in the house, there'll still be 4 noses in one bowl.

>but surely it does depend upon the character and breed of the the dog in question?

Perhaps when dealing with an unknown quantity in an adult rescue for eg, not IMO when dealing with a 12 week puppy of ANY breed :)  I have a hard wired guarding breed and mine too can happily share and relinquish anything and everything with humans and, at a push with other dogs (although personally I dont consider that to be the same issue - I wouldnt expect a visiting dog to necessarily be happy to share!)  However they were raised in the swaps and also bite inhibition methods, long before I'd heard of Ian Dunbar ;) ) yet they are well mannered and, apart from usual and perfectly *normal* puppy behaviours haven't posed a threat (obvious or otherwise) to anyone :)

All this aside, even those who choose to have more challenging breeds and opt to raise them in a more "challenging" manner need not (IMO) encourage strong arm tactics to an anonymous poster with a VERY young puppy that is behaving in a VERY puppy like fashion and so is hardly deserving of being regarded as possessive or agressive    It's just a puppy being a puppy - not some latent fiend harbouring notions of world domination :)

"At the end of the day, we are the top dogs and any property of theirs is theirs because of our benevolence (as far as they are concerned)."
I definitely can't agree with this comment.  I've never had to show my dogs that I am the boss, or dominate them.  I have both toy and working breeds, and I am with Jackson 100% on this one.  And I am chuffed that my vet always comments on the temperament of my dogs.  I could leave a dish of food in the middle of the room and tell them to leave, and they will, but I don't see that I have to do it just to tantalise them, or prove anything.  I can hold a door open, and allow a stampede as they all run out - but I can also say a name, and have only one dog come forward as requested.  And I've never had to show any of them who is boss!

The problem with telling a dog off for growling is that it learns not to growl. It doesn't learn not to be upset by whatever was making it growl in the first place, which means it could well still be upset by those things, but just doesn't growl. It probably still shows other dog signs of displeasure, but most of these are too subtle for most humans to notice, which means that if they do bite, people say they are biting without warning.

'Pack theory' or being 'top dog' is hugely flawed for several reasons. Pack theory is based on wolves, dogs are not wolves. We are not dogs, and dogs know this, plus, the reasearch done on wolf packs was a very small study and it is now proven that wolves do not even behave in the way they were thought to. Our dogs do not need us to dominate them, what they need is to have a leader they can trust and respect. THAT is how dogs would behave in the wild, and it has nothing to do with eating before them, going through doors before them or anything else like that.

I happily feed my dog before me, treat her with respect and have never resorted to physical punishment. She has growled at me twice in her whole life. Once when she was a pup and once as an adult whens he had her first chicken wing! She was never told off for it and has never done it again, purely because I understand her behaviour, that doggy behaviour is not the same as human behaviour and i don't push my luck with her. She is a working trained dog and one of the best behaved I have ever met.

What an excellent post,  I completely agree with all you said.

We are not dogs , so how can we take a role of "top dog"!!!!!!!!  we are leaders, we ask/teach our dogs to respect us, as we respect them,  we teach them manners.  Most dogs live to a "whats in it for me attitude"  (mine do , anyway")  so as humans,  we have that as a tool to work with,  they soon learn   to comply gets them rewards,  no need to use dominance or force to get what you want.

Mine are fed before us humans, they dont barge out of doors/car before me, and as yet I have not seen  any signs of them "plotting to take over"

also there are 2 sorts of growling, a real warning growl, (low and steady)and a playing growl (which is noisy and undulating )and the two are distinctly different(in my dog anyway) he play growls when im messing around with him with toys but i only have to stand up and say "thankyou" and he will give me the object, obviously with a  puppy that sort of control is a way off but its something to work towards.
If i had told my dog off everytime he made a growly nioise we would never have had any fun.

All lil puppies like to growl while playing and as long as you are controlling the play time, then its fine :)

The puppy would have no reason to growl at you threateningly as thats the last thing on its mind, like the rest has said make sure you say when playtime starts and ends and if she does get past the point where you feel comftable, then give her a little time out on her crate if you have one, or behind a baby gate in the kitchen, she will soon learn that to get too excited means play stops all together! ;)

How old are your children?  How do they interact and play with your dog?

thanks to all the replies everybody. my children are ages 9 and 15

Well, here's my method :)
For relinquishing toys I teach my dogs that giving up the toy keeps the play going. So we tug for a few seconds then I stop moving completely and very flatly say mine thank you (whatever you want to use). You puppy won't have any idea what that means yet but if the toy ceases moving and play stops it should let go after a few seconds. The second the pup lets go give her a big 'good girl' and toss the toy for her or start waggling it about. It usually doesn't take long before they catch on that if they want to keep playing, let go when asked. Giving something up means they get it back again. If the pup won't let go when you freeze, you can try offering a treat. They let go, good girl and get the treat, start play again. I hope that makes sense.

Can I take anything off my dogs any time - absolutely. Do I do it unnecessarily to prove I can, no. Most of the time when I take something out of my puppies' mouths I evaluate it as a hazard. If it's a leaf or something that I'd rather they didn't chew but it won't really hurt them they get it back. It does mean I can fish the dangerous stuff out without a fight and without a chase. :)