Hi
Don't know if this will be of any interest to anyone - it is aimed not at you 'professional' guys :-) but more at the 'amateurs' like myself who perhaps for the first time find themsleves with two entire dogs of the opposite sex or who are maybe contemplating making an addition to their household.

I have a 4 year old entire male and for various reasons decided it would be better if the second dog to join the family was to be a bitch - the only reservation I had was the obvious one about coping when she was in season.  I think it is fair to say that many people tried to put me off and say that it would be difficult or impossible to cope.  Well, she is now 16 months old and has just finished her first season, so I thought I would post about what worked and what didn't.

I have a small house (two up two down with a small extension) with large rear garden and small front garden. The bitch had the rear and the dog the front.   I live on my own which is both an advantage and a disadvantage in this situation - the advantage being that you have no-one else to chase after and check that they have shut gates/doors etc, the disadvantage being that when you are out exercising the male, the bitch is left on her own and towards the end she did get a bit of seperation anxiety which she had not experienced previously. (Does this mean I'm going to have to get a THIRD dog? EEK! )  Soooo, for the last few days I borrowed a friends aged bitch as a companion.  I ensured that the male had plenty of exercise - he normally gets 2 hours free running and that was upped to 3 hours.  I had two very large crates in the living room where the dogs could see each other and also I used a Lindam dog gate with a Lindam baby gate upside down above it in the door ways.  A DIY friend adapted the pressure fixer pads so that they screwed into the wall to make the gates more secure, but this was fab as the dogs could see each other but not get to each other.

My male had been around in-season bitches quite a bit ( a friend has a pack of 4) and so had learnt/been taught some manners by them.  The 'leave it' commnad was worked on ad infinitum for a number of months.  I did a lot of clicker training with both of them to mentally tire them and RMBs and Kongs were in constant supply.  For 99% of the time the male preferred food to the thought of sex!!  (My type of boy! :-D )

Things I hadn't anticipated was the bitch deciding that she couldn't possibly urinate on anything other than grass !  Bit of a bugger really as my entire back garden consists of slabs, gravel, and borders!  Have you ever tried buying rolls of turf in December???

She was also sick for the first couple of days of the season, which I hadn't expected.

The first ten/eleven days were very easy.  We then had 3 days where things became more intense, but I was VERY lucky in that the male only got slightly whiney and kept his appetite and was not really stressed at all.  I had stocked up on a couple of potions from Dorwest herbs to take the edge off him but did not need to use them.  I also had a number of contingency plans - people lined up to take the male.  Also, the last resort was to kennel the bitch.  One thing I learned though was not to rely on the 'volunteers'......amazing how many at the last moment suddenly remember an aged aunt coming to stay who is allergic to dog hair or go out and buy their own entire male who is dodgy with other males!!!  Grrrrrr. 

So, I guess what I am saying is that it is possible with a lot of planning and fore-thought plus a good bit of luck as you never really know how the dogs are going to react until you are in the situation.  Also, I am fully aware that subsequent seasons may be more 'difficult', but let's meet that one when we get there.

Hope that helps anyone contemplating going down the route of getting two opposite sex dogs for the first time and if anyone has any other tips for future seasons, please share!  :-)

Good post! You were prepared for trouble so forestalled it before it happened. Excellent! :)

What good advice. But be prepared for things being worse next season - quite often a bitches first season is "dumbed down" and the scent etc wuill be worse from second time around.

Also dogs have been know to mate through chainlink and gates, don't know how but it is supposedly possible.

A friend with a toy breed, had her bitch back up to a baby gate - hussy!  She did get pregnant too!

You mentioned exercising the male,but i dont see what you did with your girl. I've always been a great believer in if people want to keep entire females then they should be prepared to keep her life as normal as possible when she's in season,other than letting her off lead etc.But i hate to hear when owners of females in heat shut them up and not let them out for 3-4 weeks. :(

Just because she is in season doesnt mean she should be punished by being unexercised and segregated from the outside world ;) :)

Jan not saying this is what you did,but i know many people do...

Hi Kate
I  know that this subject has been discussed on here before and that people tend to have very strong views on it.

Before the bitch came in season I came at this from the angle of having an entire male and having had some bad experiences of people free running their in-season bitches in public places, so was determined not to be inconsiderate and cause problems for other male dog owners.  That was my starting point. What actually happened was that for the first week to ten days the bitch became very soft and clingy and just wanted to curl up, cuddle and sleep, which was quite a shock as she is a hyper, full-on GSP.  :-)   After that she wanted to do a bit more - the garden was okay for a few days (supervised of course!) then after that I took her to a friend's farm where there are currently no dogs and there is a large indoor school.  She was able to hoolie around in the school and we used some of the show jumps to set up a mini agility course for her.  She also managed to dig a very interesting irrigation system down the long side of the school!  (Sorry Steve if you are reading this!  :-(  )  We also used a couple of the barns (one with a dirt floor and the other with concrete) to lay trails for her to try and progress her tracking work and move on to different surfaces other than grass and stubble.

Whilst her life for the duration of the season was 'different' I don't think she felt that she was being punished ..........she appeared a little sad at first but I think this was more the bewilderment of what was happening to her body and the probable tummy ache she was experiencing. She got plenty of one on one attention, be it grooming, clicker training or just curling up on the sofa with me. Towards the end as I said before she did get whiney at being left as I was exercising the male so much.  That is when I borrowed a friends dog for her as a companion.  In retrospect, I should probably have done that sooner and would aim to do that earlier next time round. Lesson learnt.

I guess everyone has to do what they think is right - that includes 'reading' their own dog and trying to accomodate those needs as best they can bearing in mind others around. 

The other thing I should say is that whilst I normally work from home, I took the entire period off work so that I could concentrate totally on the dogs.

In season bitches free running no, lead walking in areas dogs are not allowed off lead yes, (practially speaking theis means road work, boring but very good for toning them up).

Exactly Brainless -whether you exercise an in season bitch or not depends entirely on where you live. Where we used to live, (AND where I lived before then as well) there was no way on earth you ever could step outside the door with a bitch in season due to the many latch key dogs that ran around everywhere with no owner in sight. Road walking would have been no safer than offlead in a park due to this. Here however things are entirely different. I have two bitches in season at the moment and yesterday took one of them for a long walk. We only saw one other dog (and that's rare) so we just turned and walked in the opposite direction for a while (didn't even bother to get close enough to find out the sex of the other dog -could have been a bitch). She was able to be offlead most of the time as there were no other dogs in sight and any dog that might appear you'd spot at a great distance.

Sadly in my village we have an entire male rhodesian ridgeback that runs loose - the dog warden has been informed (several times) and the owners have been sent a letter!  :rolleyes:  He is but one of several roaming dogs, but the one I worry about most.  Walking around the centre of town at ungodly hours is also not something I would relish - more due to the possible intimidation of some of the two legged latch-key-ites rather than the four legged ones!  :-)

But tell me.....I have read that the recall of an in-season bitch is likely to go out of the window......how true is that in your experience?  Or is it only a problem for the middle week? 

Cheers

My very first bitch of a different breed to that I own now did a runner out the front door on me when at the height of her season.  I would never trust a bitch to obey me when in season any more than I would trust a dog to resist and in season bitch.

My bitches are tarts.  I took Lexi out on what was the first day of ehr season ans all she did was flirt with every dog we met and was slow to take notice of commands.  I only realised she had coem in season when I got home.  Normally she isn't that bothered about other dogs.

Yes, I had heard that too.  Someone on here once posted 'where there's a willy there's a way!' :-D Should have added that the dogs were never left unsupervised.  For three weeks life was basically put on hold and if I went out one dog always came with me in the car.  Even if crated in the house they weren't left - the male has opened crates before when he has been loose and I could see that the little s*d was starting to try and problem solve how to open his from the inside, although fortunately didn't succeed.

Hi Gunner,

sounds as though you've done a fantastic job with this pair and you deserve a HUGE pat on the back for handling everything so sensibly and efficiently :)  It isn't the easiest thing in the world but until recently I'd done it continually for 16+ years straight and managed without accidents and without sending any of the canine gang "over the edge" :D

Dogs can mate between bars/mesh/cages - I've personally known of 2 litters in my own breed where this has happened and from a practical POV (think *positions* ) it is less likely to be possible if the male is crated rather than the bitch ;)

Similarly to yourself I've found it much less traumatic to let the dogs see one another as much as possible and it's really only for the crucial 3-5 day period that I find them too hyped to allow that so that then involves splitting them to opposite ends of the house.  As for exercise like you I keep the male(s) pre-occupied with extra and the girls get lead walked away from doggy areas for the first and last week (maximum) and confined to our garden in the middle week.   Interestingly I had both girls at our beach based caravan during their seasons and they were out and about a fair bit more than usual (due to necessity - no "private" garden LOL) but even then it was manageable - it just needs due attention and due consideration to other owners etc. which is clearly demonstrated by you anyway :)

You've done grand!  Teri

Well done! We've had 4 seasons now with a bitch, an entire male and a neutered male. The neutered male hasn't been bothered much, though for safety's sake we haven't left them alone together after the first week as he does make an occasional half hearted attempt to climb on, easily diverted if you are there. My poor entire boy though is ok for the first week / 10 days, but for the final week whines constantly, either won't eat or throws up, and is generally inconsolable. Luckily my OH can take him to the office most days so he can have a peaceful day, a nice walk at lunchtime, and an early enough dinner that it's digested and can't be thrown up! The bitch isn't really flirty, this last season was the first time I've seen her bumping the neutered dog with her bottom a bit. She gets annoyed about me taking the others for walks, but will settle for a short road walk every few days. :-)

I have to say you are all very brave, there is no way i could keep both sexes un neutured as with young children i would be a bag of nerves about them mating!

I couldn't keep both sexes, it would be too stressful to me let alone the dogs.

Oh no, I could never do it with young children - I barely even trust my OH to remember how important it is!! My friend's had several accidents due to young cousins visiting and not keeping doors shut. :-(

That's interesting, thanks. :) It's the reason I got another male dog - by preference (both mine and Dorain's!) I would have added a bitch, except for the whole season issue.

We put our in season bitch into kennels, not cheap, but an option?

Now I wouldn't trust my in season bitch away from home and would prefer to board the Male, which seems to be the usual option with those who board away when a bitch is in season.

My bitch used to go into kennels until the owner sold up. I don't think I would trust anyone else with her either, you just never know.... ;) Mind you, the owner of the kennels was also the bitches breeder, and a good friend :D

It's not easy keeping them separate, and I now have another bitch in the house, I must need my head examined.......... ;)