I said the learn far better

A toddler does not need to understand how to care for an animal, they just need to understand respect, which is learned through boundaries and constant supervision when around an animal

We had our first dog (and cat) before we had children.   We never thought of them as "substitute children" - just part of our family.

Simba was 2 when No 1 son was born - he'd watched with interest as we got the baby room ready - he took quite a fancy to the teddy placed in the crib, but was told no - baby's!.    When I came home from hospital with baby, Simba was kept in the kitchen until baby was installed in crib - then he came through and I gave him a big fuss - then he went over to the crib and sniffed with interest the bundle therein.    He learned to give the crib a push with his nose when Al squeaked and was very attentive when he was fed.   As Al grew, so did the fascination - on both sides ....Simba would watch a rusk being waved around in the air, drooling as it moved so close to him - but wouldn't go near it - but when it was dropped, it never, ever touched the ground!  Al learned to walk, pulling himself up by Simba's tail - Simba would obligingly back up to him, and then he would stagger a few steps, holding on, then drop to the floor, giggling & Simba would come up, give him a lick - and back up again!

He taught all 4 of our children to walk - and they also learned to respect him - he would give the slightest rumble if they ever took advantage of his good nature - but, like his grandfather (our very first lab) who would allow my sister to dress him up, so Simba allowed our kids to dress him up (including frilly pants, because my daughter thought he looked very rude :rolleyes:).

I wouldn't automatically preclude selling a pup to a family with children - although we did turn down one family who had three young children and a fourth on the way when we had Loki's litter - mum seemed to have enough on her plate, and they did seem to have rather a romantic dream about owning a dog!  One of the litter went to a family who had a 3 year old - but this was a 3-year old who sat down quietly among the puppies when they came to view them!

It depends upon the family and upon the puppies.

Margot

Have to disagree with you there Carrington. My kids have all had a LOT of animals around them since birth, and I notice a huge difference in them and their friends, who have not. Even when taught properly by their parents, children that haven't been around animals from birth don't have the same natural ease and respect around them, because it is something that you cannot teach, it only comes by exposure/experience.

That is what I was trying to say.

My son who's 4 can sit on the floor with a litter of 6 week old puppies chewing on his fingers and he laughs, but have had friends children or prospective buyers children here who scream the place down.  He has been raised with dogs, knows when they need space, and generally is very knowledgeable around animals for his age  

Totally agree Marianne - my daughter was 10 months old when I had my first pup and I was expecting my second child! They have grown up with a healthy respect for all animals. I had pets as a small child - most of my childhood friends also had many pets, they were part of the gang! :D

My daughter was brought up with dogs as we had the dogs before her so she has always known how to behave around animals (she's 16 now). I agree with the whole learning respect thing. As I have only bred one litter in 30 years selling to people on a regular basis is not something I have much experience of, I have on occasion sold on a slightly older pup that hasn't turned out for showing.  Recently I had to part with my 18 month old standard poodle, a couple called about him and said they had a two year old son and I said no because Lawrence was a huge standard that tended, when excited, to run towards you at a 100 miles an hour and just land on you so didnt feel he would be suitable for them but they said the child was used to great danes and could they at least come to see Lawrence and bring the child with them.  As the couple seemed so sensible and asked all the right questions I agreed to them coming to see the dog but told them the answer would most likely be that they couldn't have him.  How wrong was I, the little boy came into the house and was totally unfazed by this dog that was taller than him even though Lawrence knocked him down a couple of times initially there were no tears or tantrums he just got back up and went to pick up the dogs ball to throw for him again, his mum and dad were very sensible and didn't make a big fuss.  They know not to trust any dog completely and said they would never leave the two of them alone together.  To cut a long story short they took the dog on a two week trial, and its has turned out that Lawrence and the boy are now inseperable and Lawrence seems to calm down when he is playing with the child and not be too rowdy.  So sometimes it can work out but it depends greatly on the child and the parents, if he had been a child that had come and screamed the place down or grabbed the dog there was no way I would have let them have him.  And to look at it another way the couple wanted a poodle themselves they weren't getting one just because their child was old enough to say I want..

I would still say that is more to do with good parenting skills, there are plenty of children brought up with animals, who are cruel to them, do not behave well around them and do not understand them and parents who allow their children to behave this way too.  I've had children come to my home who have never had any pets at all, and they are very respectful and behave well with animals, IMO respect for animals has absolutely nothing to do with growing up with them or not, but what we teach our children.  Perhaps on this board there are more young children who behave well with dogs, but again I don't believe it is because they have them around.

That's a fair point. I know too many in the vilage who keep rehoming or putting down their family dogs because they're 'bad with the children' - explaining that the dog snaps when the toddler bounces on it. :rolleyes: When I've suggested that perhaps they tell off the toddler for being horrid they look at you as if you're insane.

We actually got our dog when our children were aged only 5, 3 and 18 months! Naturally they are used to dogs and very relaxed with them and know how animals ought to be treated. I do find that it tends to be the case that other children we meet who are not used to dogs often behave pretty badly with ours - but I wonder if this is less to do with not being used to them and more attitudes they have taken on from their parents who don't like dogs! Obviously we got a dog because we love them and tend to pass this on to our children.    

I prfer the term 'Childfree' than 'Childless'-I am not less anything.

Yes I do sell to people with kids, in my last litter i sold to a fmaily who had a 2 year old and a 6 month old.  They have owned the breed over 20 years so were exp and already had a dog in the home.

I have also sold to a young couple who did not have kids at the time but a baby came along when pup was 11 months.  Bitch now over 2. and dog still with family and baby.

I think it takes alot of questions and go with your gut feeling.  I own a working breed and certainly would not rule out families with kids, its not the kids that cause the probs its the parents for not supervising and educating.

I always invite the whole family to vivist dogs in advance of litter and then when litter here - watching how the kids behave and how the parents discipline them is an eye opener at times.

I'd hazard a guess that nearly every breeder on this forum grew up with dogs, and that they too, were once children Or am I wrong?
This question would make an intresting new thread me thinks? :)

Nope sadly not.  In my childhood we had two dogs and both were got rid of by my parents when no longer convenient  

To my parents a dog was just a dog, and easy come easy go.  I think in both instances soemoen Dad knew expressed adn interest and he gave them away.  Both were Lab crosses, one with spotty legs the other was black with white star on chest and rather whippety, don't think either lasted 18 months.  Both came from accidental litters of clients or their freinds in pretty much the same way as the cats.  The cats sadly never lasted more than a few years because of the busy road.

That's sad brainless :( You've certainly made up for it now though ;)
What do the parents think of your brood?

They think I am crazy, I am the only animal lover in the family, always have been animal mad.  They just don't get it,a and have given up on the idea of me growing out of it. 

I started up my rabbitry in the Dad's garden while he was on holiday (12 hutches in blocks facing each other and roofed over) and travelled all over the country by train to shows from London. 

Had to give the bunnies up when I got married and moved to a flat, but as soon as we moved to Bristol to this house I already had my first dog booked and she came three days after we moved in, my daughter was 14 months old.  Got rid of the husband two years later, and have had up to five dogs at any time.

I was 15 before I got a dog.

I have had a dog in this house since I was a baby (I am 23 now).  Started off with a Doberman named Cuda, he was a good dog, totally blasted any stereotype for the breed.  He was a 90 pound lap dog in his eyes. 

Then we got Joy.  Joy came into the house when my sister and I were 8 years old.  I think Joy really helped my sister, who was visually impared, and had some learning disabilities.  Joy was patient with her, since my sister would get hyper, and then bump her on the way through the hallways (sorry Joy!).  She also was a companion to us, and we looked forward to Joy either meeting us at the door after school, or being at the school out for her daily walk.  I think dogs, and animals can do a lot for people.  I know my sister benefited greatly from Joy being around.  My sister settled down, learned to groom Joy (although grooming meant brushing and thats all for my sister).  It taught her to take care of something.

That being said, mom knew she was the one with SOLE responsibility for Joy.  Mom was the one that trained her, worked her, socialized her, etc.  Mom was the one paying for vets appointments, food, and other incidentals needed for her.  My mom was also a single mother of TWINS, one being the above mentioned girl, and the other me.  It did take a lot to raise Joy, but it became a team effort with certain things.  Picking up in the yard, feeding her her breaky and supper, brushing her, it was shared by all.  I think Joy was the one that taught me responsibility.  But in the end, it came down to the fact that when mom brought the 8 week old sporting dog home, she knew what she was getting into.

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I personally, look at the circumstances.  Coming from the family I have, I know the benefits of having a dog with a person with disabilities, although a lot of people wont think twice about selling a pup to a person that has a learning disabled, or otherwise disabled child.  I am not saying that I wouldnt tell them it wasnt suitable for them at the moment, when interviewing or chatting with them, but I wouldnt take them off the list before I even met the family.
Some people wont sell to single mothers either (have noticed that, not on this forum, but in life in general).  Again, situations are different.
The breed I have now, tends not to be patient.  So I would be more "hard" for lack of better words, trying to make sure these people have done the research, know what is expected, etc before selling a pup.  The only time I say outright NO, to a person with a child, is when the baby is a right newborn.  To much stress, so it isnt good for a pup. 
I make a lot more decisions based on what people say to me, then a persons age.  I have had more people come to me asking for a "Miniature Doberman".  Right off the bat, no, you are not getting a pup.  Things like that.
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Growing up with dogs, I dont know what I would do if I never had the opportunity to learn how to take care of a dog when I was younger.  I dont know what I would do if I didnt grow up with Joy. 

Long post, but thats my opinion.

> I would still say that is more to do with good parenting skills, there are plenty of children brought up with animals, who are cruel to them, do not behave well around them and do not understand them and parents who allow their children to behave this way too.

Definitely true in some cases. The chap I went to for my back problem a couple of times told me how he'd used to have a dobermann, which he said was the most wonderful dog etc etc, and gave examples of how good the dog was with his children when they were small   - like how he was a 'target for pencils' as he was docked. I must have looked , so he explained pencils up the bottom. :rolleyes: I think the dog must have been a saint!! And the friend who'd recommended him to me for my back and was also friends with him said she had to put her dog out of the way when they came round - even though the kids were a lot older by then - because of how they behaved around him.

I agree it is the parenting of individual children that plays a big part in how kids act around dogs or cats for that matter.

My own children were 6 months old + 4 years old when i brought my first dog into our home, since then they have both been taught by watching me + my action on how to respect dogs/pups + handle them etc with confidence but also gently.

I have had 2 small litters with my children helping out + learning first hand the responcibility of owning a dog.

I personally feel it is our job to educate youngsters - as young as poss so it becomes a way of life - on responcible animal ownership so we have less people later on buying a dog for instance + rehoming it when they realise what they have taken on.

I would sell to people with, without, or planning children aslong as i was happy with them + felt they fully understood what they were getting themselves into.

Each to their own i say as at the end of the day each individual breeder has their own views + it is them that has 2 feel comfortable with where they have placed a puppy, but this is my view + thoughts for what its worth lol. jo xx

Well i must admit we got Ruby our great dane when my son was 11 years old thinking that was it as far as kiddies went.
Getting such a big clumsy dog that was doing zoomies everywhere at the time i was glad i didnt have a little one to worry about aswell, but 2 years later we have a baby boy and im not over worried about it now but i think thats because Ruby isnt a pup anymore and know not to zoom in the house ect,,, but how on earth can people give away their pets after owning them for years without a care my god i cried leaving her in the vets overnight and when we go on holiday i phone the kennels to make sure shes ok :0)
i must admit i dont think i could have a new puppy and new baby at the same time but thats just me just as i dont think i could have a lot of kids close together!!!!

dawny x

I will and do sell to people with children. I assess every family as individuals and have turned down some when I believe that they haven't got the time to spend with the puppy. I love Goldens to be part of a family unit but I will not sell to anyone if they say 'the children want a dog'. I do not believe that a dog should be homed on the whim of children but if the whole family is involved then all the better.

Hi All, I'm new to champdogs (so HELLOOO) and have read this thread with interest. I am picking up a rottie pup on Saturday, I already have a 4 1/2year old female rott .two cats and a 16 month old baby boy. I can understand where alot of breeders are coming from with regards to not homing a pup to people with a young family, I can honestly say that we have thought long and hard about this ( about 18 months) ...do we have the time, space etc and also how we think our son will react to a small (OK Big!!) bundle of love and fur coming into the house!  We have came to the conclusion that we are responsible enough people ( at last!) who can hopefully rear a well mannered dog as well as bring up a Son who has both love and respect for animals as we both do! He did as I'm sure I,  and many others did when they were small have to be taught to "touch nice".  I do think that some families see a puppy/kitten as a real live teddy bear that the kids can do whatever they want to and because of this responsible people with young families are not given the chance to be dog owners, I just think that families should be judged as individual cases. Having said that if I was a breeder who had one or two negative experiences I may change my mind!!
Rotties have had so much bad press that I want to take pride in the fact that my son, myself,my other half and my dogs can live as a happy respectful family.  So there! Rant over! Nice to meet you all,
Emma

Welcome to the forum Emma :D

>I do think that some families see a puppy/kitten as a real live teddy bear that the kids can do whatever they want to

Yeah,i agree!

If my kids so much as pulled a hair out of my dogs head then they would get the same done to them!! :D  This is especially more so important with the large powerful breeds of dogs and young kids,the kids can not be allowed to get away with anything that is to the detrimant of the dog..

I can not stand stand it when i hear parents gloat that their children can pull their dogs ears and tail or jump all over them from great heights.I just tell them to please not blame the dog when their brats get mauled :rolleyes: