Hi all, im new :) was introduced from another one of your members :)

Im looking to get a lab puppy, i initially tried rescues because i do believe in giving a dog a forever home, and my cats are rescues so it is soemthing i feel is worthwhile - however *omg im actually nervous lol* the rescue centres wont let me have a lab because i have 2 children??!! eldest is 4 and about to start school, youngest is 2 and goes to nursery.

I work 3 days a week but could easily coem home in my lunch hour to spend time with puppy and also have looked into training classes, im not taking this on lightly iykwim? I also bought Laboradors for dummies to read up on the breed as much as i could from a novice area *dont laugh :D*

Anyways, would like opinions on whether a lab would be a suitable family pet with young children and if so how i go about getting one? ive looked on a free ad website and got kinda scared by some of the people i spoke too, they seemed a bit "desperate" which didn't seem like a plan!

But ive also looked on the KC website and nothing seems suitable or its sort of £600 which whilst not financially impossible would tighten the purse strings and as i would like it for a pet more so than showing etc i dont think i can warrent that kind of money?

Anyways would appriciate some replies with opinions :) be gentle, im a dog forum virgin! :D

My only advice is that if £600 tightens the purse strings then wait until he comes home! You have to buy all the items he needs, pay for the vet bills, food, kennelling, insurance, neutering etc. Having a dog is not cheap! At least with a dog that you know is healthy, usually those that cost more as tests for parents aren't cheap either, there may be a higher possibility you will spend less time popping in & out of the vets with an unhealthy specimen!

Good luck with your search, however. :D

Virgin??  *sniggers*

Don't be shy Mobby, they're all very knowledgeable on here and I'm sure you'll get lots of replies! Remember, not all forums move as fast as  the one you're used to ;) xx

PS  I can totally see where you're coming from re: £600 tightening the purse strings.  While  "running costs"   occur over time, £600 is a lot of money to find if you haven't been saving, isn't it? xx

Thank you :)

Im ideally looking at £300/£350 we are getting married October next year so whilst we aren't broke we dont have huge amounts of cash to spend out, however insurance and neutering etc are expenses that would be paid, but even that wouldn't total an extra £300 all at once kwim? :) :)

I assure you that the puppy would be very much loved and cared for and would want for nothing (except a bit of piece and quiet at times LOL)

Ideally i would love a puppy that loves to play, wants to be a part of the family..... we have huge fields around us and love going on long walks, i want a dog that can enjoy that with us?

Do you think having the two young children could pose a problem? i was quite shocked that a rescue centre wouldn't rehome with us just because i have young children, i mean surely its better to have children THEN want a dog, instead of geting a dog that gets pushed out when a baby comes/??!!

AHhhhhhhh a friendly face :) :)

OMG I just had to edit cos i didn't know if i could call you what i called you just then :P ;)

*LOLs uncertainly, not sure what Mobby called her.....*  :rolleyes:  :D

It had a swear word, but was compliementary :) :)

I think some rescue centres cut off their nose to spite their face, I am afraid! I am sure you are an excellent mother who will take the time out to teach the little two about respecting animals so it won't be a problem. Be warned that ALL puppies go through a nipping phase, though.

I'm afraid £300/£350 is very little for a well bred dog. I fear that you may only find puppy farmers offering puppies at that price - with those, you WILL be in & out of the vet with all the excesses mounting up & even possibly the whole treatment if your insurance doesn't cover hereditary problems (most don't). I know exactly what it is like to have a very tight budget, I'm a full time student at the moment! I bought a puppy on the cheap side from not a great breeder & I have been to the vet already with a big problem & she's only ten months old. :(

Have you actually tried Lab rescue instead of general rescues?   Mattie who's on this board runs NW Labrador rescue, she may help with the criteria they lay down & why.

I haven't tried a lab rescue no, tbh i assumed that if 3 centres said no then they all would.

I even told the woman from the centre i had no problems adopting a "teenager" puppy (1+ years) but that i had to be 100% that it had been raised with children and ENJOYED being with children, but they can't/won't guarentee that (understandly so really)

Well, it's not going to hurt to try them is it even if all you get is advice and if you do get lucky, then just think of all the hassle you haven't had trying to sort the wheat from the chaff with responsible breeders.   Pedigree certificates don't really guarantee anything, it's checking the hip/elow scores on the KC registration certificate which is better although no-one can guarantee low hip scores even from low scoring parents.

Oh i really like you :D

Yes i have already had the dramas with 4 cats and a toddler who adored tail pulling, luckily he is now amazing with the cats and they actually snuggle up to him..... drool and all ;)

Yep, im thinking too that the budget is too low..... but what worries me more is how do you know what your getting? i mean what stops a crappy breeder offering a puppy up for £700 but then saying Oh yes its an amazing pedigree??

Does a pedigree not mean its got a clear history then? how do i tell??

I swear having children is easier than getting puppies, at least 9/10 you know there parentage (i know the parentage of both of mine btw!!) :)

What stops it is that you aren't a mug & know what to look for! I am sure there are many Labrador people on  this forum who will be happy to point you in the direction of what a pedigree of a well bred dog should look like or include - who are good or bad dogs etc.

The best bet is to contact the Labrador society, if you Google it, as they have an ethics code that all members should comply with. It's not a guarantee but it's a safe bet. They usually are more strict than the Kennel Club alone & know which breeders in your area are reputable for whatever you require off your puppy - showing, working, training or just a pet as they all need to be healthy specimens!

Just check out what health checks that are required for Labradors (should be on the society's site or you should get help if you contact someone on the committee) & demand to see the certificates from the breeder. Many good reputable breeders are trying to cut out the farmers so keep low prices but there are some who will rip you off like in anything - but a reputable breeder should be questioning you as to why you are good enough to care for their baby & very keen to prove the dog's history through it's breeding whether the parents grandparents or greatparents were good at showing/working as well as the health tests/temperaments!

The key, quite simple, is research! Meet or talk to as many Labrador obssessives as you can. :D

The best way to get a well bred puppy from a good breeder is to go via the breed clubs There is a list At the bottom of this page they will put you in touch with breeders that do all the recomended health test and who will give you the back up a new owner can need from a breeder.

"IF" you were going to be spending £650 ish on a brand new puppy, there are certain health tests that need to be done to the parents, although these don't 100% gaurantee that you'll get a 100% healthy pup, it's better than spending £300 on an untested healthwise litter of pups.

Labradors (parents....not puppies!) should be hip scored with the total score of the 2 hips combined being no higher than 15, i.e 6/7 = 13, 3/6 = 9 etc, ideally, they should also be elbow scored with a total score of 0
They should hold a current eye certificate (valid for 1 yr) so make sure it is in date, and also 1 parent should ideally be Optigen clear of GPRA.

If you see a litter of pups advertised where these tests have not been done, then it's best to walk away, the breeders are not responsible

I don't think that you working 3 days a week should be a reason to turn you down for a puppy, providing you make good provisions for it whilst you are not at home.
Having 2 childen would give me personally, a little cause for concern, mainly because Lab pups can be very demanding as can the younger child, having said that, some people cope perfectly...................I'm not sure I could though :D

If you need any other advice, please pm me ......oh, and welcome to LF :D

If anyone can cope with 2 kids and a puppy, it's Mobby.

And she absolutely will not be fazed by poo. She loves the stuff :)

I dont actually love it CK, it just appears to be attracted to me :D

and tbh, once you have held a 2 year olds poo in your hand, looked at it and not even blinked, i doubt puppy poo is going to effect me!! (as long as i get to it before ds does!!! :D)

If you source a puppy via the breed club puppy co-ordinator, there is far less, practically no, chance of it being badly bred. Parents should have had all relevant health checks and puppy should be properly reared etc. You do get what you pay for with dogs, breeding costs a fortune if done properly, and costs have to be re-couped.

Are you from a certain wedding forum then? If so, there are a few of us on here. :-)

Ooo no, i know CK from another forum a parenting one :)

Like bounty? but not :)

Thanks for the tips girls, i just figured if they were KC registered it was fine :rolleyes: lucky i was pointed in your direction really! :)

KC registered means nothing unfortunately the parents don't even have to be hip/elbow scored to register the pups...................any breeder should be able to provide copies of the mentioned test too................

Wow, they do like to confuse you dont they?? no wonder so many people get pups and have no history!!

A friend of mine got a lab from ***** recently, said on the advert KC registered etc... took him home, didn't know that he should have papers.... he started being violently sick and then threw up worms?? cue a vet trip and £500 down..... little lad is fine now thank goodness, she fed it back to the breeder and his response was "well none of the others had anything like it" 8)

Shes reported him to ***** but i dont know what has happened (if anything) since.

What would be really nice is for someone to say "ooo you look nice, take this lovely friendly healthy puppy" and then i will go on my merry way lol, its a total minefield! i had no idea!!  My mums dog (a shepard x) has very very bad hip diplacia (sp?) and arthritus, vet suspects it was interbreeding :( very sad.. but she bought out of a pet shop (last puppy left, mum didn't even want a dog, just felt sorry for it) Taz has cost her 1000's what with water treatments, medication etc..... :(

Here you go..a useful website to look at before you get a Lab

http://www.lab-health.co.uk/

I fully agree with what pretty much everyone else have said, i.e. you do tend to get what you pay for, and a cheaper pup, or a rescue dog with unknown history, may end up costing you a LOT more in the long run. Also with small children it is safer to get a wellbred pup than an adult rescue as you cannot be certain of the temperament.

HOWEVER, I also wanted to point out that there are rescues that basically will sell anyone a dog that hands over the money, and they are usually the council run stray kennels. They get so many dogs in, become so overfull, their only priority is to move dogs on and hence many of these have a lot less strict criteria than other rescues. I'm not saying this is a good thing, for the dogs' sake it usually ISN'T, just that it is something you could look into IF you have enough knowledge to trust your judgment on any dog you pick, and realise that healthwise, you will not know what you get. My mother in law wanted an adult rescue dog and as she is disabled she couldn't be accepted by any of the usual rescues, even though it was sorted out who'd walk the dog for her. We ended up getting her a dog from the council kennels -and yes it is a Labrador. She'd been a stray. She's turned out to be a great dog, excellent temperament, and we paid £100 for her. We don't know what her health will turn out like in a few years, though. Nor do we know how old she is or anything of her background.

Hi

I just wanted to say that although the advice you have been given does point you in to putting a lot of effort into getting a pup and you are probably so excited you cant wait.....  Please follow their advice - I have a dog as most people on here will have read threads about that costs me £150 per month in medication - he's only 3 years old so I have this for a long time to come.  He would have come from a puppy farmer/bad breeder I'm sure - I got him from a rescue.

So that extra bit of research could mean the difference of thousands of pounds in the long term

best of luck

Maxine

Hi

I work for Lab rescue so wil PM you :)

Lucy
xx

THANKS GUYS !! :)

".....vet suspects it was interbreeding ....." 

This is something often said and is untrue of itself.  Inbreeding causes no problems of itself other than if practised over and over for many generations (especially with no selection for these traits) an eventual lack of vigour and drop in fertility.  It can only cause a problem if there are recessive problems already in the animals being inbred, the more closely related they are the higher the chance of the offspring also having the same problems. 

The reason why inbreeding is practised as ti also increases the chances of producing the traits the breeder wants from the parents, a two edged sword, and should only be practised by those breeders with an in depth knowledge of all the dogs for generations.

To practise inbreeding the breeder must be as sure as possible that there are no health/temperament or breed faults that will be accentuated.  In fact it can be used as a tool to eliminate an issue as it will show up a problem far more quickly, while the dogs can be removed or limited in the gene pool.

In reality inbreeding even in its weaker forms is practised far less than many people think, and in fact the reason for most poor health is indiscriminate breeding of poor examples of a breed by people who do not care if they are perpetuating poor health and temperament, let alone poor conformation to breed standards.

A Crossbred like your parents was badly bred probably for a parent with HD, and as this problem is found in all breed and crossbreeds and no-one tested or selected against this trait the pup had it.

Thanks for that information :)

Tbh, in 2 years i will be qualifying as a counsellor (im in year 3 now) so i will be working from home, so that wont be an issue. I have re-read back and actually neglected to mention that my mum doesn't work (shes on disability due to a long standing illness) so she will be caring for the puppy on days i work at my house..... and i will come home lunchtimes to see him and walk him, so he would rarely be alone at all, maybe just for 2-3 hours a day before mum comes and after she leaves :)

The reason now is probably one of the best times is because everything is quite settled in my family, the kids go to nursery 3 days a week so i will be with the pup for a few hours before and after work before they come home.. uninteruppted training times ;) also if i wait 3 years like you said, my eldest will be 8, and i really want her to grow up with a puppy so that its truly part of the family :) another reason is we already have a 7 year old cat, who is adoredby the family, at the moment she is very active and kittenish and generally excepts new things, however i think at aged 10 it would be unfair on her to introduce a new pet whilst shes in her twilight years, i would hate to have her feel excluded and also threatened :) (btw we have 4 cats but shes the eldest) the twins dont care who comes in as long as they get attention and we have a siamese who adores dogs and actually thinks he is one 8) (well he sits on request and begs for food haha)

I do really really appriciate the advise though so please keep it coming, i am leaning towards getting an older puppy, maybe 6 months or a bit more..... but still not really sure where to look, will try the lab rescues though :)

ALso forgot to mention, we have a run in the garden which lab will have full access too (we built it for our cats when they were kittens as they were housecats for the first 3 years untill i felt they were old enough to be safe outside :)) a garden but also not be able to get out or people couldn't get in, which means we can have a large dog flap so that he can have as much outside time as he likes (we also have a kennell (again for the cats, well it was a littertray house but thats not been used for ages) so that if he wants to stay outside (Will have full access to the inside) he will have a little "get away" outside :)

Sorry, i ramble like you wouldn't believe, i just want you all to realise i honestly dont do anything without consideration for my family and our animsls and am usually very responsible! :) Hence why im looking into it so much and not just buying the first thing i see for under £300!

Welcome Mobby, :-)

Glad that you have come onto the site.  Can I give you some real solid, honest advice.......... it is the wrong time for a pup.

Let me explain puppies need not want, but need someone home to play with, to bond with to teach them, to train them, if you are at work 3 days a week even with coming home at lunchtime this just is not enough, they are social animals, brought up in litters with siblings to play with, they are not unsocial animals, they need someone home with them, at least for the first 6 months of their lives.

On top of the fact you have a 2 and 4 year old, puppies, scratch, bite, tug, jump, pounce, children smack, scream and send out the wrong signals, even if you are on top of your game and your children behave imaculately with a puppy and you keep them segregated when not around to supervise, it is hard work, lab puppies especially are generally puppies for 3 years and are boisterous and quite hyperactive.

My advice to you is to save up for another 3 years, to get a good quality, well bred pup, on here we can point you in the right direction of many, really good breeders and you will get a brilliant pup. In 3 years time your children will be older and more responsible, hopefully you will be able to organise your job around a puppy coming into your home, or to go part time for a few hours a day, with more time off for the first 3 months of your pup coming to your home.

If you want to do things right, to give your pup the best start, to make sure of your children safety and want a good quality dog, give it 3 years. :-)

In the meantime stay on the site gather information and knowledge, you will have a good 10-15 years with a lab you choose there is no rush, your children be able to grow up with your future pup more aware and so with more enjoyment rather than getting one now. ;-)

carrington not every household with children or workers is unsuitable for a puppy. the op said her mother is free to look after the pup on the (limited as far as i'm concerned) times she's not there. three days a week is not a lot to work, many full time people sucessfully raise dogs- obviously you should not leave a pup alone for that long but there appear to be factors in place to meet this requirement. as to the children, my parents bred a litter when i was 1 and i grew up with the dog we kept from it, he was impecably behaved (appart from some small dog aggression issues, but he was attacked by a collie when he was about 6 months which threw him with other dogs). my sister and i grew up respecting our animals and knowing exactly how to behave around them and treat them. my nephew has grown up around our bullies since birth and his own whippet since he was 3, he knows exactly how to treat them and would never "smack, scream and send out the wrong signals" because we have taught him not to. i think its very valuble for a child to learn as soon as possible the responsibility of caring for an animal.

Thank you Astarte, that is exactly what i was trying to say only you said it better

Im never going to be in the position to work less than 3 days a week, unless northern rock shares quadrouple in price ;) but i dont think that should stop me getting a dog..... i do however think it wil have to make me work harder :D

Just to add I had my first dog when daughter was 14 months and my second (when first died young) when she was 3 1/2 and my son 14 months, daughter didn't go to school for another 6 months.

I was home full time but alone with no other adult help with children or dog.  so coping with dogs and children really has to be taken on an individual basis, as for example my Jozi came back at 8 1/2 months old a wild untrained ladette from a couple with a toddler, nursery age and school age child, but they didn't cope when the kids were all home, and weren't making time to take puppy training or for proper walks.

exactly! there are loads of situations that the owners make work to have the pleasure of owning a dog. mobby as long are your responsible with the kids and puppy i think its really important for kids to have dogs about. my flatmate and i are always stunned at the reaction of her boyfriend/my friend when we visit my parents house, he's so uncomfortable with the dogs. now mum and dads dogs are big but kizzy and keeper are very chilled out and tio is a sook. apparently he was the same with my flatmates mums yorkie. dogs are something you learn to be comfy with, you learn to interpret them- i can tell if my dogs are cranky, ill, happy whatever and i couldn't tell you how, its instinctive now- and it needs learning early on.

carrington not every household with children or workers is unsuitable for a puppy. 

I agree, but have a look at rescued and re-homed dogs, I don't sell my pups to anyone with very young children or that works more than a few hours a day, my choice :-) due to the facts that those who do sell to homes like this get a high percentage of their pups/teenage dogs returned to breeder as the owner can not cope, or forwarded onto rescues. It does happen a lot, which is why rescues themselves will not allow a dog/pup to go to such homes, their policies are based on years of experience, teenage dogs especially are more prone to be re-homed when in the wrong homes. Labs are highly active dogs and placed in this scenario any breeder is risking a re-home, a Cav may be more appropriate to a home like this or a more laid back dog.

Of course there are times when everything works out great, but I see no rush for the OP to get a dog just now, especially as in 2 years time she will be working from home, why not get a pup then? They are not going to all disappear in the next 2 years.

I just don't want to see another pup/dog end up in rescue due to a wrong descision. Again my own opinion, but rescues are full of labs, infact overflowing. :-(

I'd say the main reason for so may Las in rescue is unsuitable people breeding them badly and then not caring at all who they sell to, and with no breeder back up these people dump the dog.

They are the most exploited breed ever, with more than 46 thousnad pups registered annually and probably as many unregistered.

Yes and at the moment alot of rescues are full and at crisis point

We get all sorts going through rescue and it is right that people are sold puppies without realising that a bored puppy will be destructive. They are an active breed but given the right amount of excercise and mental stimulation they can be good family dogs even when they are teenagers :) In the home it is about teaching the pup what is acceptable behaviour in the home. Young children and dogs can also live in harmony. the children need as much training as the dog and that is where people also go wrong :(

Surely it's not up to you to decide for OP whether it is a wrong decision based SOLELY on her having children? Surely the research she is doing suggests it's not a whim.

i'm with you messyhearts, the op appears to be being very thoughtful and practical about it, shes going in with eyes open.

Surely it's not up to you to decide for OP whether it is a wrong decision based SOLELY on her having children? Surely the research she is doing

Funny statement, of course it is not up to me, I have stated all along that it is my opinion, we have free speech and free desire to do whatever we want. A forum is for everyone to express their opinion and this is mine, listened to or not it matters not but we are all free to give our own opinion and expressions on subjects, being someone who breeds, someone, who has trained over 30 pups and dogs of many breeds over the years, including a couple of lab pups and someone who is in daily contact with lab owners, and many other breeds of gundogs I do not base my opinions on a whim.

I don't know the OP, no disrespect intended (your probably a lovely person with a good heart, and yes, it is great you are doing research :-) ) just what I see in black and white which is a 2 year old, 4 year old, 8 year old, 3 days at work, a disabled mother who will pop in to a pup/ dog when OP is at work. (How much training walking she is capable of I don't know) Wishing to take on a high maintenance and highly active breed of dog for at least the first 3 years of it's puppyhood to me is madness. Sorry, again just my opinion.

It is the breed of dog which is my main concern. If this were a low maintenance breed then my opinion may not be quite so ridgid. ;-)

IMO having a 2 and 4 year old they would be my only focuss, at present they can not be in nursery for longer than a couple of hours a day, that means for the rest of the day/night they are going to quite rightly be the main focus of the OP.  :-) An adult lab unless you want a fat unhealthy one, needs at least 2 hours exercise a day, needs constant training, and full focus for the first year to get a well rounded, obediant dog. Anyone with an adolescent dog will understand what hard work they are and how important it is to get it right. Unless the OP is wonderwoman, (you may well be ;-)  ) How will she do all of that will two toddlers?

I believe in giving 100% to your children and of course to your dog, doing both at the same time is hard, especially with a breed like a lab. This is why so many people get fed up and re-home the dog as it does not behave, (due to lack of training, commitment and time) It is not just my opinion it is unfortunately a fact and as Brainless says, bad breeders and wrong homes and 40,000 pups being bred is also the problem, but this is why the right home is sooooooooooo..... important for this breed of dog.

Of course the OP can ignore me, may well do and probably will! :-D But I can not, not state my opinion when I know it is possible a dog bought now may end up re-homed, the OP should not just have one opinion and state of mind, but other options and opinions to add to and think about. That is what a forum is all about.

With motherhood we don't always get to choose the right time to have our babies and most of us cope whatever, with puppies and dogs it is a choice we can make for the right time, if the wrong time, some will cope very well, others won't.

I wish the OP luck.

Actually, not all Labs bounce around like they've been on "speed" or have ADHD :rolleyes: if the OP had Labs like mine, she'd have no problem.

Puppies do need company, but they do also sleep alot too, well, mine always did. Working 3 days a week is no real problem when there is help lined up, why should the OP miss out on a wondefrful breed because she goes to work

>An adult lab unless you want a fat unhealthy one, needs at least 2 hours exercise a day,

An adult Lab does NOT need at least 2 hours exercise a day, mine are both happy with what they get, whether it be 2 hours or 20 mins...............they are even content when they are in season and having VERY limited on lead exercise.

>I believe in giving 100% to your children and of course to your dog, doing both at the same time is hard, especially with a breed like a lab.

Maybe the OP should have stuck with just the 1 child then, if 100% attention should be given. if you're giving 100% to the 1st child, what happens when you have the 2nd or the 3rd?

:rolleyes:

, hurrah! another passionate ranter like me! totally agree with you.

Thanks :D

Hi I tend to agree with Jolene here as none of my Labs have been loopy :)

They have been hard work at times but once they know the ground rules and are made part of the family then it can really work even if the owners do work.

As for children I had Labs before I had my children and the children came second but the Labs have never been put in second place as many people tend to do I have had them for 20 years now and have been an integral part of our family. Once children come we see (rescue) so many people give the dogs up claiming 'they don't have time for the dog' :rolleyes::rolleyes:

My two don't get two hours everyday and the are neither fat or lazy :D (says me as both are snoring away at my feet :D )

Exactly! Especially the last comment.

I don't think it is for anyone to say she cannot cope with two children & a puppy. Many have before & many will do again. Children are sponges & will very easily learn how to act around dogs just like the puppy will be a sponge & learn very quickly how to behave around children. That's the wonderful thing about having them both grow up together.

makes for a better socialised dog to i think, there will forever be kids in and out i'm sure.

"rescues are full of labs, infact overflowing"- so a well set up home with a family to love one is a bad thing? i quite agree that rescues and breeders need to be very careful where their dogs go. in the case of rescues the dogs have often been through enough already and need a good forever home but to write off people because they have children is madness. how many very sucessful breeders and owners on this site have kids? i know several have mentioned them in the past. it could be argued that having children has taught the potential owners more about responsibility, patience and training than those without (though i obviously wouldn't segregate those without kiddies or i'd be stuck :D). i think an all out no to families with kids is losing out on a lot of great homes for dogs in need of them. why not practise a long term, indepth check on the potential owners, have visits with the dog to the house etc, see how it all works as well as offer rescue owners the same support after getting the dog as a good breeder would. it would take rescues more effort etc i appreciate but would work better in the long run.

addtionally, why is it better that the op will be working from home in a couple of years than pt now? she will still be working at home, i believe she said councelling- i can't see her going to her clients "oh hang on, i'm just going to bring my lab in for your session..." it'll still be alone just as often i'm sure.

so a well set up home with a family to love one is a bad thing? 

Sometimes, what we think we can do, is not always what we can do.

Certainly not talking of the OP in this next statemtent but as a generalisation. Many people although they know that dogs need training, exercise, full focus throughout their various stages, don't actually do it, they think or more so expect a dog to teach itself, most of us at times have bumped into untrained, disobediant dogs.

You could have the most wonderful family, the most wonderful plans and set up for a dog, but reality is not always the same. Puppies/dogs in reality are not the fluffy dreams people aspire them to be.

carrington i quite agree that some people do not go into getting a dog with their eyes open about the commitment that caring for them is going to take, however that is not the line of discussion, we are discussing whether a person who only works pt, who has kids but is fully anticipating the level of work training both dog and children will take, who has someone to look after the dog when they are not there and who has begun research into the breed, age etc that would suit her family is suitable to have a dog. the op is quite clearly trying to do the best thing for everyone by researching the issue first, including coming onto a site full of very experienced owners, breeders etc and asking their opinions. i don't believe anyone who reads any thread on this site would continue to prescribe to the "fluffy dreams" idea of a dog, theres far to much experience sloshing around.

(ETA) sorry if these posts are starting to come off a bit cranky, i've an exam tomorrow and i'm stressed....