Before I spend the £130 (!!), is it worth it? Do they work?

If you look at my earlier post, you'll see that I have a 3yo scavenging GR.  She excelled herelf by running out of the park to scavenge through the bin liners that had been left out for collection.  In and out of traffic (side street, so not too busy - but busy enough!) to sniff out the goodies in each bag and totally ignored the recall, which is usually good.  She's been on a leash since.

I'm considering buying a remote spray collar but need your views before ?wasting? my hard earned cash.

When I used one a few years ago for dog agression, it worked.

Little tip, try ebay! There's brand new ones on there for £45.

Have you tried getting a dog trainer/behaviourist to help with your recall? For me, a spray collar would be the absolute, absolute last option. In the wrong hands, or used even slightly incorrectly, they cause more problems than they solve. If you do chose to use one, it should be with professional guidance only. Spray collars are not a substitute for correct training or effort.

The problem with them when they are used for 'aggresion' is that very few dogs are properly aggressive, most are fear aggressive, which isn't the same. Using the collar doesn't stop them being scared of whatever they were scared of, it just makes them afraid to express themselves. So you have a frightened, quiet dog.

For example. If you have a phobia of spiders and I put you in a room with one, you would be terrified. If I put you in a room with one and everytime you reacted to the spider I used a shock/spray collar on you, you'd sill be scared of the spider, you'd just be more scared/upset about the collar.

Hi,

There's lots you can do to imrove a recall - I'm sure if you let us know what you've tried in recall some of us can suggest things that will help.  What do your normal walks entail - do you spend time playing and training with him on a walk or is a walk a chance for him to go off and do his own thing? 
Is he toy focussed - he is obviously food focussed, if you take out very special treats that he only gets for doing a recall he should learn to associate the special treats with coming back to you, obviously it will have to be something really yummy (kibble and boring biccies need not apply :-) ).  If he's on kibble, take a portion of his daily rations out with you and do somne training on the way round your walk so that he's working for his grub!

I would also keep him on a long line until his recall is reliable in this area - as it only takes once for him to get spooked or be distracted near a road.....

Another thing you could do is enlist the help of others.  Get friends to come bearing yummy gifts that he can see - but he must not get any of  - when he leaves them alone you reward him for doing so.  Working on a strong leave should also help.

Spray collars can do a lot of harm on sensitive or nervous dogs, even some well balanced dogs can become nervy and flitty when people introduce these collars.  Alternatively some dogs get used to them and it appears to work a couple of times and then they learn to ignore it.  Spend time working really hard on recall and your much likely to get a better result that will last and you can be proud that you've achieved it through hard work with your dog rather than spraying him with something yuck! :-)

Used one on my Golden as she has a very high prey drive and it stopped her enough for me to gain control. She would run blindly after moving objects (even plastic bags) but the main problem was that she would wind the others up and they would run too, even towards main roads! By using it on her I gained control of the whole 'pack'. It worked by just breaking her concentration on what she was chasing.

I bought one for exactly that reason - well, sort of.  I got it for my dobe boy, as whenever he finds a dead rabbit I can't get it off him unless I manage to catch him unawares or grab it when he's distracted.  I did use it for his recall as well - and it did work.

BUT: if it ran out mid-walk, he knew.  And would ignore me again, run off with rabbits, etc, etc.  If the battery went flat mid-walk, he knew.  If I forgot to put it on him, he knew.  And it certainly didn't stop him if he was chasing something live.

I wouldn't recommend it - if for any reason it goes wrong, then you're back to square one with a disobedient dog.  If it worked, I wouldn't have posted yesterday asking for advice on training a recall away from prey animals - he wouldn't have ignored me to start with!

On top of that - it doesn't work on all dogs.  I used it on Opi for her recall training, and it made absolutely no difference at all; even though I took great care to teach her what it meant (without doing that it's just a meaningless punishment and may distress/confuse the dog or even make them panic and run off).  She just ignored it.

I wouldn't waste your money - if you have it to spare, and if she's that much of a food hound, then check out the replies on my post and spend the money on fantastic treats, and get training!!

Thank you all for your replies.

Her recall and leave are excellent - except when its garbage collection day!  Or when there are people feeding one slice of bread to the ducks on the lake and another to her.   

She just frightened me so much last week when we were well inside the park and I let her off lead when she turned on a sixpence to run out of the park to get back to the bin bags we'd passed on the way in.  The more people who tried to "help" by catching her, the worse it became.  Eventually I caught her and frog-marched her home.

She's not aggressive, ana x....just bliddy minded!!

I don't want to use it as a punishment - I just need something to un-focus her from what she has in mind at the time she's running off, or before she's in the "red zone".  I've used a squeaky toy or a whistle to get her attention in the past - but she's now learned to ignore them.

Karen: I've tried everything I know of (mostly learned on here but also at training classes).  She's not into toys, balls, etc but will do anything for a goodie.  I vary the treats (liver cake, sausage, dried liver, Primula cheese spread etc). She doesn't have one favourite food, all of them are her favourites. She only gets a piece of kibble or boring biscuit if she doesn't come immediately to me when I call her.  When she does a good recall, then she gets lots of praise and a good goodie.

Alison: That's exactly what made me think of buying one - just something to break her concentration and get her out of the red mist she's in.

I've had her on her lead for the past week and will now begin to use a long line.  I also take her into the enclosed tennis courts in our park for training for 15/20mins before we walk and again afterwards - and she does everything I ask of her when she's in the tennis courts or when she's on lead. Passers-by have complemented me on how well she does - if only they knew what she was like off lead.

Nikita:  Are you selling yours cheap?!!!! (only joking). 

I notice Carrington mentioned in another post about training to a whistle - can you suggest where I learn more?

Thanks again to you all.

She is probably clever enought o knwo the treat isn't as goo dif she doesn't do a 'good' recall, so in that instance, when she's half way across to whatever it is she was going to get, carrying on is more rewarding than coming back to you.

Have you tried setting it up so you go to the park when no-one else is there, and have a friend throw bread for the ducks? They can then limit the amount they throw, and when your girl comes back, give her a handful of treats, and just keep repeating in different scenarios.

Also, what does/would she do if when she ran off after food she came back and you weren't there? If you are somewhere safe, hide from her so she learns that if she wants to run off, you might not be there when she comes back.

My girl has run off into the woods at the farm chasing deer before. I used ot try calling her back, and she'd be gone for about 5 minutes. It felt liek forever. Then I stopped calling her, and she came back within 10 seconds. That happened a few times, and she doesn't go out of sight now. I also hide from her on walks, whch she loves!

Can you borrow one? I have two but I find them useless . The first I bought but it turned out it was not water resistant and as the dog I was training the device was to train it not to jump into water it wasn't really helpful.

The next one was water poof but I don't know if it s the way it is activated but the battery runs down very quickly. and both the batteries run down very quickly so you need to remove them when you are not using the device even if it is switched off.   with the waterproof sealed product it is difficult to remove the battery for storage.

If the dog is very fixed and already has a strong habit I think they easily ignore the spray. When my girl switches off into the food mode and noting will stop her. It's not a matter of training recall she is well trained but just the food obsession drive simply overrides everything. The only way is to predict and prevent the situations as much as possible. I have spent a great deal of time training mine out of this and I really don't think it is possible with some dogs.  Some very god trainers tell me it is some when they see what I m dealing with just say they knew dog lie that and it could never be solved.  It all just depends on the intensity of the problem and how intelligent your dog is.

To be honest no matter how well you train a dog if they have a strong will and are intelligent they can override anything.  Mine would do so well in agility and obedience but she just clicks suddeny into food mode and she suddenly leaves the ring for a bread crumb she saw half an hour before even if she is in full flow in agility.  She has ended up in the judges food tents before nd at the burger bars. I seriously don't think it is always an issue that can be solved.  

Even if yuo follow the instructions and leave the device on the dog for two weeks before starting to use it and even if you make sure the dog is wearing it well before you want to train with it they very quickly know when they are wearing it and do associate the spray with the collar. They also notice your body language and the device in your hand and know when you are going to spray them. They know when they don't have the collar on or most likely  when you are not going to use it because I think of your body signals. Like they know when they have a lead or long line clipped on or not.  I can train mine around all kinds of foods just left around and she won't even look at them and I can tell her leave and o problem but I can't extend this to an unpredicted situation/environment. 

Just as some togs totally ignore the spray or the beep others can be terrified of it and the fear can add to the problems you are dealing with.

If the dog is relatively  untrained yes then it can be easily sorted but if so training wuld also easily sory it too!  And if your dog is really very well trained and you already done all you can I don't think the spray collar will be much help. And if your dog is intelligent I don't think it will help.

If you can't borrow one shop around because the price varies and buy extra batteries with your order to save postage  because you can't get the batteries in any shops, they don't last long and they are expensive!