Hi Champdoggers, i'm hoping for some advice to pass on to a deseparate friend.

My friend has a small breed dog and was walking in our local forest when her dog was attacked by two Rotties.  The owner of the Rotties was unable to recall them and my friend was desperately trying to rescue her dog.  The situation was very serious and my friends dog was rushed to the local vets and sadly was so seriously injured that he passed away a few days later.  My friend is understandably distraught and wants these two Rotties destroyed having found out that they attacked another local dog the week before.  She has been to the local Police who were totally disinterested and said the owner could not be prosecuted.  The frustrating thing is that the dogs are owned by a lady who works at the local vets so you would have thought she would have had some sense and kept them on leads and/or muzzled them.  She is also uninsured.  My friend is trying to seek further advice from our local dog warden but I wondered whether anyone could help with an answer to this problem as if it is not dealt with it is likely to happen again.  Would be very grateful for your comments and advice.

How terrible for your friend, my thoughts are with her.
I have no experience of this but surely if your friend contacted the Dog Warden to report something could be done??
And if she knows who the owner is and has been told that this is not the first time her dogs have attacked then there are grounds for something to be done

Does she know where they live?
If she has the brassness she could go round there and threaten legal action but that is a big step to take, unfortunatly the cops are all too often not intrested in dog affairs unless theyre tryinmg to ban a breed then they are all gun ho!

Before you knock the police - do you know if this is a crime or a civil matter? Find out the facts -maybe it is something police have no power to deal with....

Ask for more advice from the police, the dog warden or if you have legal advice as a benefit on any pet insurance or anything?

Maxine

Try Dog Law they may be able to answer her question. I would have thought that is was a Civil matter. Very sorry to hear about this, she must be devastated.

is this scotland or england? just spoke to a legal student friend of mine about it, up here you could argue it both ways- criminal in damage to property etc or civil in negligence. definately take it further. its awful for your friend, terrible thought. its also awful for rottie owners generally, its fools like this that give such breeds the terrible reputation they have

What a tradegy and how devastating for your friend. My thoughts are with her. Unfortunately this is a civil matter not a police one, the police would only become involved a, if the dogs fell under the category of DDA breeds b, the dogs had attacked a human. However all is not lost as she can enlist the help of the local dog warden/council, they have powers in these cases albeit the owner may be just told to keep the dogs muzzled and on a lead at all times, they may back her and bring a more serious case (civil) against the dog owner. She could bring a cicvil case in the court for damages, loss and stress caused by this attack. If she knows where this girl is employed at the vets I would be tempted to see one of the vets and make a formal complaint there also. Good luck

I thought part of the DDA applied to any breed of dog out of control in a public place?  Oh yes, here we go:

"Section 3 of the 1991 Act created a new offence of being an owner of a dog of any type or breed which is dangerously out of control in a public place or a non-public place in which it is not permitted to be"

Reading the above I say straight back to the Police and say you want them done under the above act. They have to follow up.
I do know of a case were someone I know with 3 GSD's chased  a dog into its garden and it was found with some bite marks. The Police came to see her and they said that they hadn't wanted to follow up but the complainant insisted and therefore they have to.

I know the bare bones of a case locally - around 10+ years ago - where a large breed of dog was known to be overtly agggressive as much by the owner (who in fairness kept it on lead but wasn't strong enough to hold on to it :( ), other dog owners in the area and the community police.  It had seriously attacked two dogs before, one which was pts from related injuries, and it attacked and killed a third dog :( :( :(   The Police did follow things up and the owner eventually removed the dog - but to who knows where!

I'm afraid I dont know what powers if any the police used at the time but certainly the insistence of the last dog's owner did ensure that they responded.

Tragically these things happen - how I could cope were it to happen to one of my own God only knows :(

Teri

I think the dog would have to be dangerously out of control in that it was a danger to people.

I think any dog dangerously out of control in a pubic place is and could be a danger to people.  

A person walking their dog in a public place under control has every right to be protected from out of control dangerous dogs as the next person.  They should not be exempt simply because they have a dog with them. 

It only takes a person, a child maybe....at the other end of the lead when their dog is being attacked to be under threat and in danger. 

I got bitten myself years ago when an off lead GSD took a dislike to my GSD who was on lead.  My dog didn't have a scratch; I on the other hand ended up in casualty.  Nothing came of it, I knew the dog and owner; we went training with them, his dog got me accidentally and he wasn't a vicious dog, just didn't like Spender and I don't think Spender liked him either.  However, if that had been someone else, they could have taken it further...

But any owner has got to bear in mind when having dogs, that if you intervene in a fight or if your dog gets attacked, you could get bitten too.

There was a case years ago about a GSD, off lead, owner somewhere over 100 yards away; attacked a dog on lead and the owner of the dog that was being attacked got bitten trying to separate the 2.  A destruction order was served on the GSD.

What I meant though is this is why the Police aren't taking action as it was a dog on dog attack, not one on a person.  I agree that the owner should be made to keep the dog under control.

to right, what if they'd gone for her when she tried to get the dog away??

I am so sorry for your friends loss.

8 years ago my dogs were attacked by another gundog breed. 2 of them ended up at the vets and had to be stitched back together. One of them was only 10 months old :( I reported it to the police (it had attacked previously) and I also went to the owners door and confronted him. The outcome was that the dog had to be muzzled if it was ever taken off the owners premises. Luckily both of my dogs made full recoveries, but I do know of one dog that it killed (small terrier) Don't let it go. Take it as far as you can. My fear is always along the lines of what if..... in my case it was what if I had my daughter with me that day, what could/would have happened if she had intervened (she was a toddler at the time) If the police won't help go to the dog warden/council, even to the vets where the owner works and shame them!!! If they can't control the dogs they shouldn't have them.

The police do very little for a dog to dog attack sadly.

There was a case round here where a dog killed another, the owner complained to the council (it happened on council property, public space) and the council took it to court and a control order was served.  The owner wanted a destruction order but I understand the max they will do is a control order for a dog to dog attack. 

My understanding is that it would have to be a dog to people attack before they will serve a destruction order and even in some of those cases, it is still only a control order depending on a case by case basis and how good the solicitor is.

The other way is through the civil court to sue for damages. 

My friend is being taken to court for having 3 dogs out of control, next week.  They rounded a corner of a country lane and met a lady with a dog that started barking at her dogs.  My friends dogs then barked back, the older dogs were successfully recalled but the pup jumped on the dogs back and broke the skin. The police had been round several times, but the lady wanted to press charges.  My friend was under the impression that the police thought a warning would be sufficient, but the lady was insistent on pressing charges.  My friend was obviously shocked and upset at what had happened and has totally changed the way she walks the dogs (separately or on leads).
So I am sure your friend would be able to press charges, she just has to be very insistent.

Firstly I have to say so sorry to hear this awful story, your friend must be devastated.

Sadly these incidents are becoming more common, not in my opinion because dogs are becoming more agressive but the lack of training from owners and the attitude of owners.
If you know youre dog has a tendency to be agressive with others it shouldnt be let off the lead in public, full stop.

I work in a police control room and have to deal with these incidents week after week, it breaks my heart, although we deal with all sorts of horrid things, fatal rtc s on motorways etc....nothing upsets me more than things like this.
Sadly a dog on dog attack is not a reportable crime, the police will not charge the owner or take further action, they will however in our force visit the owners and warn them about the dangerous dog act and try to persuade the owners to pay the vets bill (if dog still alive)
But the most that will happen is the owners will be warned, not much consolation to the victim I know.

The dog warden can be informed and they will also go and speak with the owners but like some of the other posters have said you can try taking civil action to recoup costs but this would end up costing you, and still then no guarantee the dogs will be removed or destroyed.(If thats what you wanted)

We had a case just this week a chap was out walking his Collie Cross when three German Shepherds approached and set upon his dog, he obviously intervened and was bitten on the hand.
However it was his wife who had called the police and had exaggerated the story and said the dogs were still attacking her husband (this is the only time the police will attend if the incident is ongoing) , several patrols were allocated including a dog man .
The chap was fine with just a nick to his finger, his dog was shaken and had been bitten but not badly so, the dog handler shooed the three offenders into a front garden whilst trying to locate the owner of the dogs.

In the meantime, this chap went to hospital (just for a tetanus I could only imagine) , the owner of the dogs were found she was distraught, someone had unlocked her rear garden gate where the dogs were in the garden, she had been lookig for them everywhere, the officers said her garden was properly fenced, and she was a responsible owner, the dogs showed no agressive tendancies to anyone at the scene and were more frightened if anything.
The owner took them home and was given the telephone number of the chap whose dog they had bitten to apologise, which she did.

However when the wife received the phonecall from the gsd owner she was furious the dogs were returned to her and wanted them destroyed!! She was advised the dogs were not agressive towards people and although her own dog had been violated this was not sufficient to class the dogs as dangerous.  her husband had a minor finger injury where he had intervened between the dogs.

Each case is different, dog attacks should never happen but ones like this are genuine mistakes on the owners part, so think it unfair to say any dog which attacks should be put to sleep.

Now the incidents we deal with week after week where a dog looses its life to a thugs trophy dog is a different matter, these idiots find setting their dogs on others funny, we had a spate of them a few weeks ago where a dog killed several cats in the same street and a poor elderley ladies Yorkshire Terrier, she was about 87 and this will probably finish her off.

How sad that people find pleasure in doing such awful things.  I bet you would have a lot more stories that would shock us Ruperbear!

Thank you all for taking the trouble to reply.  It is very sad that you can't enjoy taking your dog for a walk without fear that something like this will happen. My friend was devastated that she couldn't have done more to protect her dog but it could have been far worse had they attacked her too.   She knows where the lady lives and she had agreed to pay the vet's bill but whether she will still agree to this now it is over £3,000 remains to be seen as her dog's were uninsured.  I am waiting to hear what advice the local dog warden has given her but something really does need to be done.   Is it only the council that can apply for a court order to have the dogs muzzled or can this be done through a civil action against the owner and would this be costly?

I know it is a terrible thing to say, but if the woman herself had been bitten in the process, the police would be interested and with a lot of pushing would help.  Police are for human problems unfortunately dog on dog is not their jurisdiction.

Can the RSPCA help with anything after all they are what I call the 'animal police' would it be worth your friend contacting a local branch for advice as well as the dog warden, I have a feeling the RSPCA will be more helpful and could help with advice towards a private prosecution it is the only other way, ask your friend to take some legal advice, once taken down this route there is nothing to stop her from winning the prosecution along with back up from other owners whom have had attacks from these dogs too.

To repeat as others it is a terrible tragedy, it needs to be stopped.

I have heard of the RSPCA getting involved in a case near here where a youngish male of the human species allowed his dog to attack and kill a cat - as a cruelty case, I think.

I would have thought the police would be interested purely on the basis that it is damage to property, since dogs are count as property - they would get involved if someone took a mallet to your car or burgled your house (though admittedly you can't often get a long way without witnesses and knowing who did it).

As a matter of interest was your friends dog insured, because if she was then I would expect that her insurance company would like to recoup their 'losses' from the offending dogs owner. I certainly would not expect your friend to have to pay this huge sum after her trauma and also being the injured party.

So sorry. Your poor friend. I can think of no worse way to loose a dog.

Yes it is fortunate she wasn't hurt too as her loss is hard enough to suffer. At dog club here a lady was attacked by a Rottie and with just one bite it tore through to the bone.  With out any request for action the next morning the owner had her dog pts.    I've heard of A Rottie breaking the bone too so these can be terrible injuries. Your friend was powerless to do anything and it really is good she wasn't injured.

  Owners especially ones with any medium to big  breed absolutely need to be aware of how quick and easy it is to main and kill. It's not enough to buy  public liability insurance just in case things go wrong. Nothing can bring that poor little dog back.

Hopefully you can ge action to place restrictions over these dogs but given the seriousness of this  I would genuinely expect the owner to opt keep the dogs muzzled and on a lead. And to walk them one by one to try to break the pack mentality and gain some training. And hopefully some  civil action can be taken out against her as she knew her dogs had a history of aggression.  

I hope it helps just a little for her to know we are all thinking of her and sending loving thoughts her way. She must be so devistated.

So sorry to hear of your friends dogs, you don't mention how this came about (not that it matters coz it shouldn't happen) but with rotties and any big dog GSD's etc, they are natural guarders, just like a jack russel is to hunt. If these big dogs get in the wrong hands and are not trained properly this is what happens. Personnally i think the owner should not have had the dogs of the lead at all, as she obviously has not trained them or they would of come back to her recall. Unfortunately I also believe that certain dogs should not be of a lead simply because of their breed and public opionion no matter how soft they are, its a dog owner responsibilty. When two dogs get together they are in a pack if these dogs have not been trained which they haven't they have power. She needs to be reported to police, local council, RSPCA, at least get someone to log it so if they get any other complaints its all logged, it could be a child next time. This lady will not be able to control 2 rotties on a lead some of them have been know to get to 11 stone so if her two are 22 stone how on earth is she going to control them they'll just drag her. Send my best wishes to your friend. RIP little fellow.

So sorry to hear of this very sad story :(
I would agree that it is a good idea to contact Trevor Cooper at Doglaw, as he will know for certain what can be done.
I until recently assumed that the DDA applied only to human/dog problems but have been told otherwise, that in fact section 3 can apply
to dog-dog problems, although I am not certain under what circumstances.

Lindsay
x

I took this up with my local dog warden some time ago when a similar incident occured in our local park. I was reliably informed that the DDA did not apply to dog on dog attacks but was in fact there to protect humans from attack in a public place. It's a very grey area & according to our dog warden the DDA could not be used in such incidents.

I would be more inclined to think about private prosecution against the owner - i'd certainly confront her in person.

My girl was attacked a while ago, and we called the local SPCA.  They (with the support of the new Pit Bull Ban - although I am against the ban totally, but it gave the SPCA some place to stand on), deemed the dog dangerous.  They made the owners follow certain rules, or they would not be able to keep the dog.

Unfortunately, when it comes to dog on dog attacks, without the breed bans (they are more likely to act if it is a pit bull then any other dog) police are not quick to act.

It is such a sad thing, to loose a dog.  I know how scarey it was when my girl was attacked, and she survived.  I dont know what it would be like to loose one. 

Hi, I am very sorry for your friends lose. It is very distressing to loose any family pet, but in such a way is criminal.

I have read all the comments, it seems Dog on dog attackes, the police are just not interested in, sad but I think true.
You said the owner works for a local vet! Would your friend consider approaching her employe, local MP, or local newspaper? I think if the police will do nothing, then your local community have the right to know the owner and dogs so they are able to protect their pets / young children, to prevent this happening again.

Due to attacks in my area, I rarely walk my dogs- and if i do i do not go in local parks but only on pavements, sad but true.
Can we not name and shame these people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would contact the local newspaper if I was being civil or go round to the owners place of work or home if I wasn't being civil!