Hi all...I am new to the site, and have a toy bitch who is pregnant...She was due yesterday, today is day 63...For the past two nights, she has kept us up, panting heavily and then stopping, can't seem to get comfy...Puppies have so much movement it must be awful for her...She never was a big eater so I can't really rely on the backing off food.  Temp dropped last night and she has been having little episodes (for lack of a better expression) where she will be laying on side and her legs start shaking and the panting gets heavy, then she calms down for a few minutes and starts over.  I'm worried because she is really wanting to stay with me, if she thinks I'm going to sleep for the past two nights, she wakes me up as if to say, "Please don't leave me".....My male and her are very close and we lost her sister a few months back and since then, they both had a rough time of the "grief process" and another concern is that they are sooo close and she gets really nervous when I make him leave the room....I tried separating three weeks prior to her whelping date but she was way overly anxious not having him around....I have been watching him as well and he seems to want to help....I know that sounds retarded but true...My lab had pups and quit nursing so I had to take over and he constantly stayed with the pups, looking over the box if he heard any crying or noise....I am at a loss...I know they are supposed to be separated, but don't want to cause her any undue stress as she is a small bitch and gets nervous really easy....Any suggestions??? I'm rattling, sorry, just exhausted and quite anxious myself...Thank you.

Hi

You have to do what you think is right for your bitch, When my small bitch had her litters my GSD male was sitting beside me helping her deliver. They were very close and both of them would of hated being seperated. Once the pups were born she got protective for a couple of days and wouldnt let him look at them but he understood and stayed away but still in the same room. I would be guided by your bitch if you feel she will be stressed without him dont seperate but again if you think that him being around is causing her concern then remove him. They tend to act differently once the pups are born to.

Hope this is some help

Wendy

Wendy,

Thank you.  I agree with that really.  He wanted to play and didn't understand at first that he was too rough right now and he has now become the "overseer" persay.  I just really wanted to know what others thought as this is my first go round with small dogs such as this.  I had a litter that the mom had stopped feeding.  I had to take them on and they were brought into the house with me and my minis.  Midnite became really "possessive" of them, hurrying to where they were if he heard them crying or moving about to check on them...He would only look over the edge.  I've tried separating them for a night and no one got any sleep.  They were both very uneasy (I believe due to the loss of curlysue's sister a few months ago) and when they did get back together, they went straight to sleep curled up together.  Thank you, I think I will leave them together unless there are obvious signs of problems...Thank you so much!

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I stand by my believe and personal experience that when the temp drops ( I mean reall drop where it has been prolonged)  that puppies should be here within 24 hours.   When they are not here naturally every personal case i know has required a section.

Just went through it with my freind a couple days ago temp drop down low for 6 hours, and 24 hours later they still were not here,  I didn't want to pressure her of course as it was not my bitch but she finally decided time to get to vet. Inertia.  

My last litter just a couple months ago, I had temp drop 24 hours on no puppies off I went to vets and after Oxi a section was performed, 4 massive pups, 1 was so big for my breed it filled one horn. It would have held them all up.

Both were not delayed past the 24 hours both litters all survived.  

It is without a doubt the hardest thing to decided when is it too long but you have to go with your guts and you can usually with a bit of common sense just sense when things are not moving as they should be.

Thank you Blue...I am taking her today as last night she was very "lazy" and panting and because of her breed, she pants alot even when not pregnant.  I called the vet last night, he told me to rub some Kayro syrup on her tongue, or sugar water.  He said if she "perked" up, bring her today.  She did.  Has been up and acting like normal since.  We are going this afternoon.  I pray all goes well as it is very emotional for me to loose a pup, not to mention her and the strain it seems to be putting on her.  I think this will be my last of this breed as I don't like
putting my animals through so much....Thank you again!!

A little concerned that she is already at day 63.  I breed toys, and mine rarely go much over 8 weeks.  Without being alarmist, I would have had her at the vet by now, due to her discomfort and panting episodes.  (Just my experience with toys.)

In 20 odd years of having Pomeranian's mine have gone before nine weeks for first litter but usually after 9 weeks for subsequent litters.  If the pups are moving like mad that's a good sign as they usually go quieter a day or so before.  But I would take her to the vet if she is in discomfort and has been paniting quite a bit on and off.

Thank you so much...The panting hasn't really become the main concern as she did that when she was hot before being pregnant...I understand that toys should not go this long, that is alarming me...She really doesn't look like she is in pain, but she is not active at all the p ast three days...If I get her up to go to the bathroom, she gets there and then lays down....Unless she thinks I'm getting her some table food....lol.....I know that when I separate her from my male chi, she gets very anxious and looks for him....And yes, the pups are really going to work in there...I can see progress as far as her shape changing dramatically...She had pups up to her neck (lol) and they have moved down and now looks like a small tube around her middle to back end....I'm really sorry to sound so unknowledgeable, but as I said before, I usually breed ***  and this is a first for me and so much different obviously.  Thank you so much for your information.

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Thank you for your response.  I just had her at the vet last week and he thinks I'm being overly concerned, maybe a bit anxious myself.  I will take your advice though and take her tomorrow. 

Last week that may have been the case, but once they get past the due date is a whole different kettle of fish and if she is having episodes you need to get things checked have an ultrasound to check on the health of the pups.

I once had a bitch having her third litter after 3 years from the last one, and she had unproductive labour showing similar signs to what you are deceiving, she was overdue and in my breed they rarely go to 63 days, she needed a C section and we lost one of the four pups.

I also once had a litter 4 days late according to the mating date, but as I had the pregnancy monitored and at the time of the vet palpating the abdomen 28 days after mating, he was pretty sure the pregnancy was not that far advanced, so we expected her to go over.

Brainless, thank you for your information.  I am taking her today.  I pray this is not the case however, I need to know now....Thank you, will keep you informed....

If she's past her due date, in labour, and there's a possibility of whelping complications due to the head size that some toy breeds have, I'd certainly want to get her checked by a vet asap.

You are absolutely sure about the dates they tied?

if temp is down and has been for 24 hours, and sounds like labour has started but not going anywhere I would get her to vets now. A pup could be stuck in the cervix or could be inertia.

>if temp is down and has been for 24 hours, and sounds like labour has started but not going anywhere I would get her to vets now. A pup could be stuck in the cervix or could be inertia

This is what happened to Mysty(Wukee's mum)she had a C section on her due date & the puppies were like three day olds she was probably over due. Thank goodness her owner & vet were aware & did the elective C section before it became an emergency

Lokis mum,

As far as the tie date, yes, I'm sure....Maybe I'm doing it wrong....The first tie date was October 7...The second was October 9....Let me count the days again...Maybe I miscounted...I marked days on my calendar, maybe I made a mistake...Let me check....

Please could regular members NOT re-state the breeds involved here when it is quite clear they have been previously edited out to comply with the TOS (a number of posts have been removed from this thread as a result of members ignoring this). Constructive advice can be offered to the OP without making reference to any specific breeds or cross-breeds.

Thank you

Going by those dates, the expected whelping dates would be the 9th or the 11th of December.

Hi all and thank you for all your advice...I am sorry about mentioning the breed of dog etc, I was not aware of that rule...

Anyways, the news is that curlysue had the pups last night through the night.  I was up with her and she did it like a champ....Never said a word...She climbed into a bag of clothes I had gathered for the homeless and went to doing her business before I realized what was happening.  Rather obvious I was a bit anxious.  She had them the night of the 9th....I am exhausted but proud!! She had four.  All healthy and happy and hungry....

Thank you all again for your help and advice.  This is awesome....

curlysue