right so once youve done a microchipping course and passed what else is there to learn?

>right so once youve done a microchipping course and passed what else is there to learn?

No you dont as my vets found out when they couldnt find my dogs micro chip. And there was no reason for it.
And the time when they microchipped 2 dogs, Scanned one to make sure it was in right, and no reading, looked around the floor, found the microchip. But it was the chip from the other dog.
They didnt know that could happen!!
Lea.

i did as its happened to me. and the vet should have know that

But only do you KNOW it from experience not from text books!!!!!
Lea.

who many dogs have you actually owned since 1960 then and how many litters have you bred?

I'm not sure thats relevant, are we going to go down the line of ...Ha I've bred 2 more litters than you so my advice is better?

I think from the replies so far on the subject you must see that the majority of people leave fresh water down for their dogs all night, and the dogs don't have accidents. Maybe you'll reconsider the way your own dogs are kept.

The original posters bitch is still young, and giant breeds do take longer to mature. Withholding water isn't the answer, letting her out for the loo half way through the night will probably solve the problem :)

Isn't that 'mine's bigger than yours' attitude a tad childish? But let's see - I had five from pups till their deaths in their teens, and three adults now; I bred my first litter in 1976 and the last (great-grandchildren of my original brood bitch) in 1999.

correct me if im wrong but does that mean youve had 8 dogs and and 3 litters of pups? im not very good at the whole great grandparent stuff

i agree with lots of people come here for advice, in another topic i said something along the lines of that so other people wouldnt think the advice given was the way to do things but bascially all i got told was that im wrong.

Even the RSPCA site says that a dog requires "A constant supply of fresh, clean water".

This is quite right.  My daughter bedwetted until after her younger brother (3 1/2 year age gap) was dry.  she was encouraged to drink more so that her bladder got used to holding more water.  Alarms were set and the periods lengthened until she was dry.

Lots of people making the same mistake does not make it the right thing to do ;)  I have never restricted water intake with my dogs or my children or now my grandchildren. They have all become dry through the night at the appropriate age without the need for this.

how can you say 'lots of people making the same mistake does not make it the right thing to do' how can it be a mistake when it works for lots of people?

How does it work ? It is a myth that drinking too much water before bedtime causes bedwetting.
Parents often limit the amount of water the bedwetter can drink several hours before bedtime so thier kids can wake up in a dry bed. This approach doesn't work because the body continues to produce liquid during the night regardless of the amount of water the child drinks before bedtime because the food the child consumes during the day turns into liquid after it is digested. (Restricting fluids is discouraged because limiting water intake increases the risk of dehydration.) It's also important to note that many young children drink a lot of water before going to sleep and never wet the bed because they have learned to respond to a full bladder at night.

well my son is 2 and a half, im trying to toilet train him he used to have 10 ozs of milk a night and his nappy would be so full of wee and sometimes even leak so i reduced the milk to 5ozs of milk and now there is half the amout of wee in his nappy when he gets up

sorry see my edited post above

He's still not learning to control his bladder any quicker though, is he?

how would you know

Because you said he still has a wet nappy in the morning. When it's dry in the morning you'll know he can control his bladder throughout the night.

I would know about children learning to control their bladders because I have done extensive research on it. The people (doctors, nurses, speacialist nurses and padeatiricians etc) would know as extensive medical research has been done into the subject. I also know because after his mother witheld drinks for several hours befor ebed, and then got him up to go to toilet at 11.30 pm, my stepson can still wet the bed up to 5 times a night.

As for what you have said about witholding your dogs water, you are not making much sense. You have said in one post that water is available to them but you know they don't drink it, but then when asked how you know have said you know because they are crated, so can't get to the water. So if they are crated and cannot physically get to the water, how is it available to them?

Especially as there aren't even any bowls of water in the house.

when they go out for a pee before bed time the water is there available outside

"i dont actually take the water away its still there avaliable for them but they dont drink it i know this because i watch them"

So, do you know they don't drink it because they are confined ot a crate which contains no water, or because you watch them? If the water is outside, then your above statement is not true.

i watch them when they go out for a pee to make sure they dont get up to mischief and to make sure they actually pee

There is a danger of contamination by rodents of water kept outside, obviously with dogs that are kennelled it cannot be avoided but the dogs presence would deter rodents, but leaving the water bowls unattended at night and then the dogs drinking it in the morning could cause disease if rats or mice have been able to get to it.  Weals diseases and Leptospirosis (not sure) are transmittable to man.

Weils is a particular strain of lepto.

what even if you wash the bowl and then put out fresh water?

Sorry Hayley but I'm speaking as someone whos son was investigated for kidney problems as a youngster and I worry when advice about reducing fluid intake is given whether it be for a dog or a child. The puppy concerned will eventually gain enough control to be fully house trained just as your own son will become fully toilet trained maturity and training not intake limitation.

The whole point about confining a pup to a crate is that you have to let it out every few hours, so you either have the crate within earshot so you wake when the pup stirs, or you set your alarm. You don't shut a dog in a crate and then go and leave it unattended for hours. That's not how they work.

My dogs don't whinge or howl either. If they get 'caught short' by a tummy upset or something they'll either give a single 'woof' and wait for a minute or two before repeating it, or a single biff on the kitchen door. Both are enough to wake me from the deepest sleep. :)

Just to add, my dogs have fresh water available at all times too. They don't need out while I'm sleeping unless they have an upset tum as JG said, if thats the case they wake me up - either by woofing or simply milling about and I hear them and will let them out. On the very rare occasion that they've needed to go when I'm at work they do it in the kitchen..they're not lying in their own mess - another reason why I don't approve of cages.

>another reason why I don't approve of cages.

Me too. I think it's very important for a dog to have room to relieve itself in an emergency, well away from its bed.

i think people who work long hours and cant get back home to let their dog out shouldnt own a dog

Sweeping statement. Who mentioned long hours anyway? The possibility of a traffic jam, or a dog becoming ill during the morning when you've popped out to the shops, means everyone should sell their pets, does it?

>i think people who work long hours and cant get back home to let their dog out shouldnt own a dog

But often people who work long hours make alternative provision.  We work full time but have flexible hours so make sure that one of us leaves late for work and the other is home early. We also have a dog walker as my OH has to travel with his work and my scedule can be unpredictable at times so we have to have a contingency plan to ensure the dogs are ok at these times.  Incidentally, the last time I came home to find one of the dogs had had an accident due to an upset tum was a day that their walker had been in so it must have happened in the couple of hours between her visit and my return.  However, as they have access to the whole downstairs, they have plenty of room so are not forced to 'lie in it' as they would if they were crated or even confined to one small room.

My bitch has slept in a crate at night ever since I had her (at 8 weeks).At first she woke up once, sometimes twice, between going to bed at about 11.30 and getting up at 6.30 - so, obviously I took her outside. After a bit you get used to it, and as someone else said, hardly even wake up. By the time she was 4 months, she slept happily throughout the night. She has water available in her crate but rarely drinks (she sleeps in my room so I would hear her) but I'd hate to think that she was thirsty and couldn't get water.

I get up if my dogs need to go out. It's not often, but they do ask if they need to go to the toilet. On the rare occasion we have a dire rear in the family we're up several times. :) where's the sleepy smiley?

Both of my dogs have a good drink before they go to bed. My 2 YO will normally go at least 8 but sometimes 11 hours before he needs a wee, the 10 month puppy normally easily makes it from 10PM-7AM

i used to restrict my dogs water in the evening have no idea now why i did it but can only assume it was something i had heard.
i used to pick up water bowl at 9pm and my poor guys would not get water again till about 7-8 oclock, i was doing this regulary for at least 5 months till one morning when taking eris out she crouched down to have a poo and let out the most awful gut wrenching scream i didnt no what was going on so i panicked ran home and getting straight on the phone to the vet, well the upshot of it was she was constipated and had an urine infection vet asked did she have free access to water to which i replyed no and for the next 10 mins he proceded to lecture me on the cruetly of what i had been doing, and you no what he was right i will never forgive myself. now all my dogs have 24 hour access to water.

I get up to let my dogs out for a pee....its better than a wet floor!!! They dont always need to go these days, but when they were small I set the alarm for 3 am and took them out.

I do especially as I have a cavalier on heart medication & he needs to go out frequently to relieve himself I would never ever restrict a dogs water to house train it

Well, I've already answered that I think.  We did it as part of the housetraining process and still do it if one of the dogs asks to go out which is rare these days but does happen occasionally. 

I despair at some of the posts made by Hayley123 are you normally so argumentative? It's not just on this topic either that I have seen it :(

no im not an arguementative person but when someone tells me im wrong and they know best, how many of you would just sit back and take it. sorry but i wasnt brought up to like that

if one person tol dme I was wrong, I might disregard it. If LOTS of people told me I was wrong, I might start to ask myself why popular opinion seemed to go so strongly against mine. if, when I tried to explain myself and my reasons, the majority of people (Or everyone, in fact, in this case) still diagreed withme, I would take time to do more reasearch into what I believed, as I would start to think it was probable that I was wrong.

You are not making yourself look either good or knowledgable.

im not trying to make myself look knowlegable. what you lot say is your opinion doesnt mean everyone has to agree with what you say does it

But peoples opinions are not just based on a whim, they are based on veterinary and welfare association advice.