Someone on an American forum i'm on has just posted and asked if it would be ok to crate their dog for 10 hours a day as she has just been offered full time hours after working part time.This made my blood boil,but i felt ill,literally, after getting to the bottom of the post and realising the dog is just 4mths old

I can not stand the thought of any dog being locked up for that long,let a lone a wee pup.Reading post after post of dogs being crated for  hours a day is really affecting me,to the point of feeling nauseous when i read these posts.

What can be said to put these people off of crating for so long and make them think twice about doing so??

Worst thing is it is considered virtually the norm.  Lots of people never leave their dogs loose In the house ever, even as adults. 

They even have the idea that based on age in months a pup should be able to go x amount of time between toilet breaks.  We all know that sometimes pups will pee every half hour and sometimes every few hours depending on excitement ambient temperature etc.

No wonder I ofter read about UTI's.

When asked why they simply don't ocntain a pup in a safe dog proofed room, it seems homes are much more open plan, so they prefer to use crates.

It may just be impresssion but I got the impression daily walks for most were not the norm either.

yeah I know - I have had numerous heated discussions about this - how thay can possibly think this is ok is beyond me - some also don't provide water but leave ice cubes instead for the poor animals to lick as this stops them from needing to wee so often.

Then they call their dogs 'fur babies' and spend hundreds of dollars on 'cute clothes' for them --many of them don't seem to have any kind of fencing around their 'yards' and cannot understand why their dog won't stay on their property--I tell you it's a whole different culture :rolleyes:

Yvonne

I use a crate for my dogs but only while i am out which is never for long but the minute i am home they are let straight out and spend the rest of the day with me, i could never dream of leaving my dogs locked away for that length of time, we went to the staffy show in wales yesterday and our dogs went to my mother in laws because we knew we would be out all day and i couldnt leave them that long.

>I got the impression daily walks for most were not the norm either.

Actually yes, I think this is true. I know several people in America with Dobes and for sure the dogs don't get walked every day - they get taken to the dog park once or twice a week. It seems to be very much the norm though and they are genuinely suprised that other people (like us!) take our dogs out at least once, if not several times a day.

Same here zarah, this was a topic recently on a US dobe forum  Usually most of the people on there walk ocne or twice a week, this time around more people said they walked more often and several every day so it seems better at the moment.

I wonder if the US lines are more laid back than ours - these owners seem to get by with letting their dogs run in the yard each day, whereas mine would go spare if I did that for more than a day (which rarely happens).

Oh this makes my blood boil so much. Especially on one forum I go on. I can't even talk about it too much as it really does get to me lately

Most of the people on my American cocker forum think it's fine to crate train, but most of them don't advocate crating all day or I would have to say something! Mine are all used to being in crates for journeys and at shows, and if we are away at a dog friendly cottage they often sleep in the crate overnight, but during the day they are out, and if I have a puppy it stays in a dog friendly room with a tiled floor so it's easy to clean up if I don't get it out quickly enough. Mind you I know people in the UK who keep their dogs in crates all day, so....

Oooh just reading about these morons makes me angry... "fur babies".... I ask you.... Grrrrr!

I intend to crate train my impending pup, but only overnight while toilet training  (I shall get up in the night to let it out for wees - god it's going to be like having a baby again!) and for VERY short periods if I have to go out in the day, again only while toilet training and to avoid TOO much chewing... but other than that, pup will be with me, in the house, being part of the family.

It makes me FURIOUS when people work long hours but still insist on having dogs... I have been desperate for another dog for years, but purposely waited for my kids to be at school full-time so that I could devote loads of time to my new pup. It's like they think they have the RIGHT to have a dog, regardless of whether they have the time for it because - oh yes - they buy it cute outfits (vomit) and call it Tinker-%$^*$^% -bell....

Anyone thinking of getting a dog should think not  "Why do I want a dog?"  but  "What can I offer a dog?".

I'm glad I don't visit the forums you mention, I'd get banned within seconds!

Because of the huge numbers of dogs destroyed every year in the states there is almost an attitude of surely this restricted life is better than no life.  Personally I don't agree, there are worse things than death.

Well said Barbara.

i crate 2 of my dogs the other two are outside in a kennel and run as they were outside dogs when i got them. i only crate my dogs at night or when i have to nip out and its not suitable to take them. i walk all 4 3 times a day. and i would never sell a pup to someone where the pup is going to be left alone or to someone with small children, i made the mistake of selling a pup to someone who had 2 small children only to have the pup returned a few weeks later as they couldnt cope with the pup and the kids so i would never do that again as its not fair on the pup.

I really hate people judging all those with children based on one person.

We got our pup when my youngest son was just aged one. He is also 'disabled' as he has Downs Syndrome. I booked the pup before she was born, and managed to make a three hour round trip to see her, three times a week, until we could bring her home. I managed her perfectly well, along with my five horses.

My children are now aged 11. 7 and almost 4. I am managing to rear a litter of 9 pups very successfully, (my first litter) which includes giving all of the pups some individual attention at least once a day, as well as look after my bitch and children. My Fiance works away and I have no family to help with childcare, although they do go to school and nursery, so I am doing it all pretty much single handedly. (Although I admit, my friend is being paid to look after my horses!)

This is the reason I woudl not automatically rule out peopel with children for one of my pups and I get quite cross when people do.

like i said SMALL children meaning kids that dont go to nursery or school full time one small child i wouldnt have a problem with as i had a pup when my baby was 3 months old but more than one small child would be no its hard enough having two small kids without a puppy aswell

This thread is about crating for long periods not selling puppies to homes with young children - please keep on topic

Thanks

When I got my first dog I had a toddler and when I got my second (first had died) I had a toddler and a pre schooler, coped fine, but have also been let down by someone not realising how hard ti would be with small kids and a puppy and had one back.

hi as were not supposed to post about things not relevant to the topic i was wondering if you think im wrong not to home a puppy to somewhere where there is more than 1 small child?

very sorry that was supposed to be sent to brainless through pm

Our ACS is crated whilst we are out. This is simply for safety reasons until he is fully grown up and mature and I don't have to be worried anymore that his teenage hormones might cause him to instigate a fight over something.

He is usually crated 3 hours every day when my husband and I are at work. He has no problem with this. Very rarely and only in cases of emergency, he has been crated for up to 6 hours (e.g. when my brother-in-law died, last week when my father-in-law had a heart operation). If things are forseeable though and we are away more than 4 hours I always get someone in to let him out for a break after 4 hours.

When we are at home, he is never crated! Our other three dogs are never crated and Jesse will be out of the crate too from next summer!

Crates used sensibly are great, but I hate it when they are used in excess and as the norm really.

Vera

The best analogy I can think of is to suggest to these people that they sit in a closet with no books, no radio, ipod, TV nothing for 10 hours. And of course no toilet breaks. If they are happy in there and want to go back in the next day they can argue their case.

Maybe it's more prevalent with the population that visits dog forums but I only know of one person who crates their dog - and it's not a friend of mine! Most of the doggy people I know are either home or take their dogs to doggy day care.

as for the arguement that it's better than death I'm with Barbara - there are worse things. Once a being is dead there is no more pain, no more stress and no more suffering. Death is only sad for the living they leave behind. I think it is preferable to a tormented existence.

mmmmmmm not sure anyone can comment on worse than dead untill they have been dead! so how likely is that?

Hate crates

I crate Piper when i go out and when she was younger she was crated at night. I would never have a puppy and not use a crate, they are great unless they are abused.
Mary

I really don't agree with the current trend that says when you buy a pup you have to buy a cage too

I've never used a cage. My parents always had multiple dogs and cages weren't around in those days, I bring my pups up the same way. They are restricted to the kitchen when I'm out or sleeping until they are housetrained, purely because I don't want to have to be shampooing the carpets all the time. Other than that wherever I go in the house the pup goes too. When they're clean through the night they have the run of the house with the other dogs. Yes, occasionally they have chewed things, but to me that's all just part of having a pup....and it teaches you not to leave things lying around :)

It's a whole different culture over there, you cannot force your ideals onto them and in the same way neither can they do the same to you. 

Different cultures have different ways of thinking, different ways of doing things and different ways of caring for dogs.  That doesn't mean I think crating a dog for 10 hours a day is acceptable, of course I don't, far from it, but that doesn't mean I'm right and everyone in this world has to agree with me. 

When I first got Spender, he came with his very own crate. This was 9 years ago.  His owner crated him when she went out, after she bought a posh new leather suite, despite the fact that Spender had no history of chewing.  :rolleyes: He has no history of chewing with me either. 

To make things more familiar for him at the start, I put the crate up but never shut the door.  Well, he loved that crate, couldn't get him out of it.  Sheba had never been crate trained and after a while she started going in too, then it became a competition to see who got in first, with times when they both squashed in.   But neither of them were ever confined and after a while the cage came down and made a new home for itself in the cupboard.  I still use it for convalescing but the point to this story is that not all dogs see crates as prisons but I agree that the restriction on movement for so long is not healthy.  Just IMO of course. 

>What can be said to put these people off of crating for so long and make them think twice about doing so??

Calmly point out the negatives to long term crating, mentally and physically.  It's up to them whether they take heed; we can't force anyone to see it our way. 

Many reasons why people crate is due to their dogs behavioural problems.That's another thing i've noticed,there are alot of mentally unbalanced dogs over there,that cant handle life at home alone without being caged.This is when i brought up the point of fates worse than death,which went down like a lead balloon :rolleyes:

I've also heard members say how can you bash us about using crates when you Brits let your cats outside! They must just have a thing about confinement and control..I dont know what the hell it is :(

A lot of dogs are not socialized proper over here (Canada), and so crating is a "easy solution", although in my eyes, a wrong one.
I crate my dogs, when I am out, as pins are wonderful escape artists, but thats about it.  The only long time they are crated is when I am out a long time.  Ex.  Last week I had to go to the ER, so I crated them, and they were in the crates for 7 hours.
My springer is NEVER crated, although she was crate trained as a puppy.

I know many people that get dogs and put them in a crate, or small back yard, all day.  To me that isnt fair, as the dog didnt choose to come to us, we chose the dog. 

But crating is good in certain situations, but to be overused is just neglect, and something I dont like to see happen.

I think things are starting to get worse here for some dogs.

My neighbour had never heard of a crate and thought the idea was awful when I suggested it would keep her curtains intact when they went out briefly as they had two young Jack Russel bitches following the death of their old JR.

they find it a God send when they travel away with their caravan (past dogs had to be tied out in the awning, but inadvertent escape was a worry.

It solved their problem and the girls are still crated at night some 8 years later.

In the day it sits on their covered Patio wit a comfy blanket in it and on top, and the crate is open.  I can see them out my window stationed on top of it every day :D

Problem is that often rather than train or address a problem the poor dog is shoved In a  crate where is stays frustrated.

As for socialisation.  How amny peopel regularily walk their dogs down the local high street to run errands any more.  Everyone is now afraid that someone may steal the dog or if soemone interferes with it it might bite them.

People drive their dogs to excersise them, rather than walk to the park, so more and more dogs have issues with traffic and crowds, yet that id the very environment they ahvew to live in.  They can still hear the traffic and people inside the car or home and are therefore always under stress, and so on.