Except that few owners of male dogs think about studding, or are put off because of having to oversee the mating, whereas most owners of bitches will have at some time or other thought about having a litter.  I also suspect there may be quite a few owners of male dogs who have tried mating, but the dog (having been brought up as a pet and with an inexperienced handler), hasn't known what to do.  Whereas the number of bitch owners (particularly judging from another breed specific forum) who want 'just one litter' is very large and probably accounts for a huge percentage of dogs bred.  TBH - reputable breeders are probably in the minority :(

i disagreee that you can make more money off a dog a friend of ours has a dog whos sire is a ch and all he charges is £80 for a stud fee so does a well known border dogs owner so where is that making you more money than a bitch considering if you sold 5 border pups at £450 each youll get £2250 now where does the £80 compare to that?

That is a very low stud fee, but there are also no expenses for the stud dog owner other than refreshments for the visitors and health testing their dog.

Now the bitch owner has to rear the pups ,pay out registration fees etc.

On average it costs me £1800 to rear a litter in my breed I have averaged just under 6 pups per litter, range 3 to 9, but usually 4 or 7 for some quirky reason).  That does not include my time or extra electricity or wear and tear on my home.  It would include the costs of health tests, equipment or replacement of same, registration and identification, travelling expenses, Vet fees, stud fee (price of a pup so currently £550), and of course straight rearing costs.

In my breed you are right you would never get rich from stud fees or even cover the dogs costs even though the stud fee is the price of a pup.  Some champions may never even sire a litter if the available bitches are his close relatives.  Even Imported dogs like the one I have in partnership may have limited use (he is 6 and sired 8 litters most of those for his owners).

I know someone who has a neighbour with a popular Gundog breed where stud fees are about 60% of puppy price.  This person has a couple of males who have done reasonably well, and accepts lots of pet bitches to their dogs.  They probably have one of the dogs mating a bitch  each week of the year as it is a very popular pet breed.  No outlay other than hip scoring the dogs and annual eye tests.

It makes me very :( when people talk of 'making money' from breeding, and how much a litter 'makes'. Or a stud dog 'makes'. I thought the whole point of breeding was not as a money making venture, but to improve what you have and carry well bred healthy dogs forward for the next generations. cost never coming into it. People so often say....£500 a puppy x number in the litter, and come with a total of say £4000 and that is all they see. When people say pedigree dogs have bad health, have bad natures, are 'highly bred' and 'highly strung' I doubt they are talking about dogs bred by work and show people, or those maybe retired from these fields but have the knowledge and keep up with whats happening in their breed, but dogs bred from BYB and puppy producers, whos only though is the sale price and how much they will have made from the whelping. These puppies may well carry a KC doc containing many CH, but to my way of thinking they are no differently bred from the many crossbreeds that are around today.

I overheard someone at the vets once, saying to another person in the waiting room, that they saw two litters, one was a couple of hundred pounds more than the one she had, and as she didn't want to show a ##### breed is a ####### breed, no need to pay the higher price as they are all the same! and she only wanted a pet!

"cost never coming into it "

I know it isn't what you meant, but cost does come into it.  Most breeders need to be in a position to meet the costs of breeding and rescue of their pups if the worst happens.  Being at home full time will mean they are a one income or fixed income unit, many breeders are retired or disabled and have just their pensions, few breeders in their day and age have real money, so they do have to take costs into account.

It is one reason that most breeders worthy of the name average a litter or two at most a year, due to the cost of not only breeding, but keeping the rest of the dogs, and working or showing them.

I know no-one who can afford to give their pups away, and considering that they are looking after the future of their breed as well as enjoying their hobby it is only reasonable they cover some of their costs.

As usual, you manage to see what I write and understand me, thanks brainless :)

I think I should have said profit, rather than cost never coming into it. My use of that expression was to mean a good breeder will spend what it takes to produce a good litter, and pay whatever that takes without thought of profit. You hope when the puppies are sold to cover some or hopefully all of the expences, and if you are very lucky there may be a little left over for you, but nothing like the total 'on paper puppy sale money'.

>i disagreee that you can make more money off a dog a friend of ours has a dog whos sire is a ch and all he charges is £80 for a stud fee so does a well known border dogs owner so where is that making you more money than a bitch considering if you sold 5 border pups at £450 each youll get £2250 now where does the £80 compare to that?

I would say that he does not value his dog much

You may bring in £2250 for the litter mentioned in your post, but you are forgetting about the financial outlay that bitch owners have to produce the puppies, not to mention the time and effort which goes into it.............I read somewhere once, that if you added up all the hours etc you put into raising a litter properly, then your wage for doing so would work out at 20p per hour or something as equally ridiculous but then, anyone worth knowing, would only be breeding to improve what they have already got, not to count the pennies afterwards :rolleyes:

> this neighbour has made more money from the poor quality dog than I'd ever make from my OK bitch ( who, incidently has produced a fab little bitch for me  )

Not a chocolate lab by any chance is it?  :(   all too common, but considering they are a minority colour it always surprises me that far more owners of pet bitches want to breed their chocolates labs than other colours.... or perhaps I shouldn't be surprised :(

The first thing folk comment about my Dobe bitch is, isn't she beautiful and what a lovely colour.....is she a lab

I agree too, all I would want is an idea of price though, because my purse is not a bottom less pit :D and I wouldn't want to waste anyones time if I couldn't match the asking price. if you have no idea, and only have £500 to spend on purchase (knowing that there will be other expences such as vet/vaccs, dog bed, collar/lead, training classes, vet insurance, puppy food, etc all to be budgeted for in a short space of time) then I do think asking the price of the puppy is necessary. It also gives you something to save for, if the breed is way over your present budget. people 'in the know' will have an idea of price, but someone who has seen a breed and has promised themselves it when the time is right do need to know how much it's likely to cost, the same as they need to find out as much as they can about their chosen breed. To me, the cost of the puppy, plus feeding costs, and if vet treatment is likely to be higher because of size or breed, and higher vet insurance because of size or breed, are all part and parcel of the homework needed before a decision on a breed of dog is taken. No point in having one that you can't afford to feed (for example) when its an adult.

having said all that though, once you know you have the finances, price should not come into it, as Carrington says....
Just don't look at the price, if you want a specific breed of good health and temperament the price should not even come into it

My own breed at the moment would be £550 - £600 and we tend to all ask aroudn and charge the same, it amkes it much easier when we swap puppy enquiries due to not enough of a sex etc, as we tend to co-operatee.

I have seen a puppy farmed litter in Ireland with two pups left advertised for £200 less, but pups are genrally cheaper in Ireland.  Here commercially bred pups have largely matched the price of well bred ones, and even been higher in the past.

Stud fees are the price of a puppy, and our studs don't get much work :D

Bernese seen to be around £750 to 950, however I know I would rather pay the £950 from a breeder I trust and who puts time and effort into the litter, even some "Long established" breeders don't!!, just out of interest and twisting the post a bit..would you go for a small not so well known breeder who has the time to spend on the pups or a well known BIG breeder who does lots of winning but maybe has too many litters to spend the time with? Or even pays staff to rear them as lots do (Not nessessarily my breed, and not always a bad thing...some breeders who have been doing it for years are not always the best and the staff they employ often have a better rapport with the dog's??)
I must add that I would always go for the bloodlines and breeder I am happy with..price is a little immaterial if you are after something specific, to a certain degree.

Breeders worthy of the name in my breed only have the occasional litter, depending on what age their current breeding stock will depend on whether they have a litter at all that year or maybe two in the next. 

No-one would breed more often than so that they could give each litter the time and attention rearing a litter needs.  Very occasionally a breeder will have overlapping litters, and we all agree never again :D

Basenjis sell for £500-550. My puppy that I will be getting next March time is costing me 1100 EUROS = £800, but that is the going rate here in Germany. Most breeds over here sell for alot more than they do in the UK for some reason.

Min pins tend to be between $1000 CAD to 1500 CAD.  Thats about average.  I have seen people in the paper advertise Miniature Doberman, and I cringe.  Then they also want a truck load of money. 

Also, the cross bred dogs, like the labradoodles, cost a lot more here than a pure bred pup.  Which is appaling, because IMO you dont know what you are getting, are you getting a dog that has more lab in it, or poodle, and what about health problems, and such?  I hate the people that walk around town going "oh look at my ChiPin, or Chidoodle, isnt it great, I only paid x amount for it"  (which is usually way more than the pure bred counterparts are worth) and they get mad when I dont agree, but all I can think is you paid that much for a mutt?  (not that I dont like mixes, as if you are looking for a pet, and go to a shelter, then it doesnt matter pure or not) But to go around town telling everyone your mix is so great, when you only paid an arm and a leg, is attrocious.  I shake my head to it.

on the back of this thread I am interested to know whether the value/price of dogs goes down in times of recession. 

Someone here mentioned that the price of dogs has shot up in recent years which would also tie in with a boom period and huge increase in house prices etc.  Does the price of animals follow suit?  Is a well bred pedigree dog going to cost less next year or do breeders just breed less often if animals are harder to sell to good homes? 

I'm just curious here as I would love another dog and can afford it just now but who knows in 6 months time or a years time with interest rate rises and lots of job cuts on the horizon.

Well when I bought my first pedigree dog it cost me about 75% of my monthly salary.  The price I am now charging for pups is less than that % of my 20 year old daughters clerical monthly take home salary, so I think the price of pups reflects earnings, cost of living Rather than property prices.

I also paid a similar price for a Sony FST TV about two years before I had my pup.  The current Brand name TV's are still more than the price of my pups.

15 years ago I paid £350 for my foundation bitch, so I think breeders who are only looking at covering their costs and if lucky covering a few entry or Vets fees for the menagerie are still doing the same now.

My breeding costs have certainly risen since I bred my first litter.  My last Hip Score in Jan 05 was £170 compared to £55 for my foundation bitch, and other costs including food and especially vet fees have risen at a similar rate.  Stud fees are price of a puppy, and puppy average has been just under 6 for a litter.

£500- £600 for a clear L2 and Hc health tested stafford from what I would see as a good pedigree

Hi there, i just paid £650.00 for an irish wolfhound bitch.  i think that is fantastic money for what i have got she is kc registered and a wonderful dog and in my opinion is worth much more than this.  i think i got a real bargin!  but i know what you mean, a lot of unreg. dogs are very expensive, but i suppose if they were cheap then maybe they wouldnt go to "good" homes?

I am somewhat embarrased to say that we paid £1750 for our girl. No we are not rich - we had happened to have a bit of inherited money and it is unlikely we will ever afford another!!!!!!!!! She is a Coton De Tulear, this is the norm for this breed and although it is crazy money it was the best value for money we have ever had!!!I agree that at least when something costs so much it makes you think carefully about the purchase. I still think I have got a bargain and as far as I am concerned she is priceless.

hi there, i agree with you completely. I have had many breeds in my time and always thought i was a German Shepherd girl but since having our Irish Wolfie, (only a few weeks) i am completely smitten, she is like one of my own children as far as i am concerned (I am a sad lady!!!LOL) where did you get your dog from, did you have to go far away.  We went about 190 miles which i have heard is really good!

I was lucky, only a few hours drive to get her.  We have had her more than 2 years now and I agree she is like one of the family and we regularly think it was the best money ever spent!

For a well bred either GSP or FCR I would expect to pay £500-700.  My GSP was £400 7yrs ago (but prices have gone up in 7yrs!) and my FCR was £550 2yrs ago.