Hi All

Long time no speak! i always lurk though

Right, i am after some Mal advice, i am seriously thinking of adding one to my family but want to make sure (before i start my search) that i can offer a suitable home.
My circumstances are:
Work 4 hours per day
Have 2 kids (13 & 11)
Own 2 male German Shepherds
Don't have huge garden but it is fully enclosed with 8ft fences
My sheps get roughly 3 hours exercise per day (mostly off lead but a small amount on lead)
I am committed to learning all about the breed and have been researching for a few months now before i start contacting breeders.

Sooooooo, what else do i need to know? i know they are very hairy (used to that with my sheps), i know they can be very vocal (used to that too), have heard some murmuring about same sex aggression but is this breed specific or just down to lack of socialisation??????

Questions, questions, questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will you be prepared to do much more on lead exercising as most sled dog breeds are totally unreliable off lead?  Also many Mals are not keen on their own sex, so I would be looking at a bitch as you have already got two Shepherds.

As a shepherd owner (they are basically velcro dogs) there are traits you may be taking for granted that are less likely to be found in your average Malamute?  I have a smaller hunting Spitz breed and I have often heard it said in my breed GSD's live to please you and Elkhound lives to please itself.  Now I consider my breed one of the easier Spitz breeds for the average home, mine do go off lead and all but one are pretty reliable, but I take extra care to only let them off in safe areas well away from roads just in case of bogging off.

I have friends in Obedience circles who have always owned GSD and Collies and when they had one of my breed that I had back for re-homing, they had quite a culture shock, as she was so different from what they knew, even though they had always had something else more challenging to keep them grounded, training really needed adjustment to teach her to become relatively obedient, they did get her up to basic competition standard, but would admit it was up to her what kind of performance she gave :D  Another freind has taken part in competion obedience with her dogs, and Malamutes can be trained to a very high standard, but are still rarely reliable once away from the handler off lead.

Hopefully those with Mals will elaborate on more specific breed traits.  Size wise you are already used to a large breed.  If I drove and was stronger and had bigger property they are a breed I would have liked to have owned.

Thanks for your response Brainless.  Yes i must admit that only ever having owned shepherds i am obviously used to their traits and my 2 are fabulous off lead so that would be a bit of a learning curve. I am more than happy to provide more on lead exercise. I am very fortunate that i live close to a very large piece of farmers land that i am allowed to use (for a fee of course) daily and that is fully fenced in. It is quite confusing as there seems to be differing opinions wherever i look as to whether you can get a reliable recall with a Mal?!

I must admit i had already decided on a bitch regardless of whether i get a Mal or stick with another shep (better the devil you know):rolleyes:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated guys x

What is full fenced may not be fully fenced for an adventurous breed.  I once took my bog off girl (she came back to me as an adolescent with the habit established) to a friend of hers who had a full enclosed field, but what they meant by fully enclosed was hedged all round, she just walked right though it and was into woodland that bordered the road, with her nose down, turns out there were lots of pheasants and it was Autumn.  My heart nearly stopped.

They own a working breed who would only be looking to see that no-one came into the property not looking to go adventuring as running around keeping an eye on Mum was their thing, ranging ahead looking for something for Mum to hunt is what is in my breeds nature.

Fortunately while I was scrambling about down the bank calling her she had already found her way back to my friend :D

Now she in particular will wilfully disobey, but even with the Good ones you have to bear in mind that they can get into bother by following their nature if your not on the ball, as it is in their nature to range ahead, so you need to know what lies ahead and if it is a danger to them.

I am not sure what Mals would do in an enclosed field whether they would e looking to get out, as I suspect they could easily jump over average sheep or pig fencing, but would they want to.  With mine if there is a gap then we must go see what is on the other side, and I need to be close enough to say no.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Brainless you have given me lots to think about. I must admit the field is fully fenced in with a wire fence that is about 4 ft high at the most, this is more than enough to discourage my boys but as you say i am not sure it would be enough for a more adventurous breed?!

I will keep researching as, as yet i have not heard anything that really puts me off. x

I had a GSD and after we lost her we got a Malamute - you sound like a potential good owner :)

Most Mals stay on lead for walks although mine are fine off lead and I found having well trained older dogs was a real blessings o may work that way for you too...

Many Mals do not tolerate other dogs of the same sex and some don't like other dogs at all .....
Mine are fine - some breeders do work hard to breed for dog tolerance - mine has.

My Moots have no escaping desires and one of them is a very focused dog and will sell her sould for a Kong on a rope - they have been much much easier to train than I expected.

Mine are silent and do not make a sound unless asked or if they think they should be sharing what I am eating!!!

Temperaments are bombproof BUT there are some real monsters of Malamutes out there and some horrific breeders who are able to trick and lie pretty efficiently so you need to be very very careful where you get one from if you decide to - a poorly bred Mal can be terrifying!!!

They do need lots of exercise - but sounds like you do that already - and lots of training - but so do GSD so you know that!!!

>I am more than happy to provide more on lead exercise.

Are you sure? :) For my dogs to recieve the same amount of exercise on lead as they get off lead,i'de be out there walking ALL day :D And mine are a small,but energetic, breed. One other thing for me is that i always feel so sorry for dogs who must always get walked on lead.There's a couple where i go and they always look so sad and frustrated not being able to join in with the other dogs.So for me it would be almost heartbreaking to own a dog who would never really be able to run free.

There's a guy i see regularly who owns 2 male mal's,who get on well by the way,and at first when they were younger he had no probs walking them off lead,but eventually they turned deaf and ran off at every opportunity.Now he has to walk them on lead and he is utterly shattered everytime i see him and the dogs are hyper and still so full of energy.He has recently started running them(they pretty much pull him) next to his bike,so hopefully this is helping them get rid of their energy.

So these are just a couple of reasons why i could never own a mal or sibe,even though they are beautiful dogs.
Oh and the shedding would drive me bonkers

"Are you sure?  For my dogs to recieve the same amount of exercise on lead as they get off lead,i'de be out there walking ALL day  And mine are a small,but energetic, breed. One other thing for me is that i always feel so sorry for dogs who must always get walked on lead.There's a couple where i go and they always look so sad and frustrated not being able to join in with the other dogs.So for me it would be almost heartbreaking to own a dog who would never really be able to run free."

Must admit that is how I feel, ti is one reason that I keep on lead walking to the streets, I do though keep my bog off dog Jozi on a Flexi sometimes in the country Park if I haven't all the time in the world for her antics.  Nine times out of ten she is perfectly good, but on the day she wasn't to be awkward I end up having to wait her pleasure.

When I chose my breed over several other Spitz candidates the off lead issue is what swung it for me.  I think my main problem with Jozi is the fact she already had learnt the bad habit before I had her back, with the others it is just an odd bit of selective hearing meaning they are a bit slow on recall at times, not flatly refuse to heed a call.

I supose they are similar to most Jack Russells etc of my aquaintance and a few Spaniels too.

It does also help that even though they like as much excersise as you can let them have they do not require nearly as much as soem breeds.  An hour on lead woudl suit most of them fien or even a half hour off, though of course I believe they should get as mcuh as you can give them.  I think thsi is the reason so many older owners can still cope with the breed even if they haven't any safe off lead areas to free run them.

Of course I am not entirely unbiased

Hi I am an owner of a lovely GSD.
Could you please expalin the phrase  "they are basically velcro dogs"
I'm curious as to what you mean.
Many thanks.

They like to stick close to you!

Aw !  many thanks for that info.
Yes, my GSD is a velcro dog too.  She watches me all day long, evreything I do, she is there watching and I love it :)
Thanks again, I have a VELCRO dog  LOL   ;-)

BTW The hair thing ..... imagine your GSD at worst ever shedding time then multiply it by 20!!!
I had Labs and GSD and thought it couldn't be much worse - OMG it is LOL

LOL I can just imagine it must be like my lot all shedding at once as I am sure one Mal must equal 4 Elkhounds coat wise.

Good to hear they aren't the escapists that their lightweight Siberians cousins are.

As you said there are sadly some right cowboys in both Sibes and Mals and those crossing both Breeds with whatever, definitely to be avoided.  Check the breeders credentials through the breed clubs Mich and you should get lots of help.

We get asked at least once a month if ours are Elkhounds which I find really weird as I'd expect Joe Public to be more likely to recognise a Mally than an elkhound - I never see any elkhounds although a girl I used to teach, her Nana had one I remember.

The grey bits never seem to shed - only the white LOL

Not surprising where you live as they are sold commercially in your location.

Elkhounds have been in the UK, but not well known since the 1870's, that's right eighteen 70's, about a 100 years before the Mals and Siberians arrived here I believe.

Sadly our numbers are barely sustainable here, yet you still get the odd puppy farmed litter, grrr!!!

Our numbers were at their height (about 4 tiems the current figure) at the end of the 60's and early 70's.

I can certainly see why you like them they are very very striking!

Like you Ktee we wouldn't think about getting one though as we couldn't provide the exercise that they would need!

"Not surprising where you live as they are sold commercially in your location."

Oh I didn't know that - I wonder where they all are then - it does seem that everyone but me sees them :)

have to add here , a lot of people think i am cruel cos i don't let my sibe  off lead (she is on a very long horse lunging (sp) lead when most dog owners give me their thoughts (thats cruel or what a shame she can't run and play ), but how i see it is, when we walk on lead we walk and when she needs a run we get the rig out (3 times a week mostly) and i would not take that slight chance to let her off  unless in a secure area cos she is my girl,  but cos she likes to play rough, i sometimes think that if i did let them off they( the other dog owners ) would be be begging me to get her back on the lead .I always wanted a mal too but wondered about the same sex tolerance and got sibes . Exercising can be easily done on a scooter or rig if you have more than one .( and that is a great feeling being on a rig or scooter you and your dog working together) The moult thing is easy too ,well kind of ,once it starts just comb and brush for about a week (it will be a swing bin liner full every day maybe more for a mal . black bin bag ,lol)and bob's your uncle (not like short hair that sticks in everything)and the birds love the fur we have baby birds raised in our garden from husky moult . i love it . so if you want a mal and feel ready go for it . A dog on a lead is not unhappy just protected .

You sound as though you are doing your homework :) I would probably suggest a bitch rather than another dog as some Mals do have same sex dominance issues :) Make sure that you go to a good breeder, one who can sSHOW you the hip score and eye certificates for both the sire and dam.

I exercise all 3 of mine on a rig (well, okay, hubby does) as this tends to give them a really good run out without the danger of them disappearing (unless you count going off track and into the grass to follow dinner ..er...I mean a rabbit or squirrel :D :D )

They are not huge eaters but will do almost anything for food :D They love their families and are very sociable dogs but they need PLENTY of socialization especially whilst young and training throughout their lives :)

Good luck!

I would say your circumstances are ok as long as you are prepared for the work :) 4 hours work a day is fine, especially if the Mal has other dogs for company. They are pack animals and prefer to be in the centre of things. Your kids are the same age as mine were when I got my first, although well bred Malamutes should be fine around any age. 8 ft fences are fine but if they can be seen through it's worth bearing in mind that they may dig under to get to something the other side ;) 3 hours exercise a day is perfect but as already said, generally they are not to be trusted off lead due to a high prey drive. If they see a cat, squirrel, dog etc. the likelihood is that they will be off and recall won't have been something they ever learnt :rolleyes: Unless like Julie, you are passionate about training :)

Mals are an intelligent breed with an independance that means they will question your commands and will take advantage of any weaknesses. Many people give up their Mals because they let them get away with things as a pup and then can't get them to stop as an adult - it's far harder to tell a seven stone dog it's not allowed on the sofa when it was allowed as a puppy ;) The trick is to be consistent from the start and ensure all members of the family give the dog a clear heirarchy. They will generally try to climb the pack order starting from around 12-18 months and we have the term "Malamonsters" to describe the "teenage" stage. All training will be ignored, all rules will be tested... it's up to you to get them through this with firm consistency :) Eventually the grow up... I'm assured this is around 12 years of age :D

In terms of breeders, please be sure to research thoroughly and make use of the breed club :) As a breed we are likely to break through the 1,000 puppy this year mark for the first time and I wouldn't buy over half of those pups registered due to lack of health testing or ethical breeding (my opinion which I believe I am entitled to). It's an absolute nightmare for people wishing to get a puppy now but there are people who can guide you in the right direction :)

I have no views on Malamutes, but hope people won't mind me saying how much I'm enjoying this thread. I have relatively easy breeds, and I'm really learning a lot about the more 'awkward' ones from the experts here. :-)

Thanks everyone for your replies, i am really grateful. I have contacted a couple of breeders all over the country to get some advice and feel that i can offer a good home to a mal so the search will begin, i am expecting to have to wait a long while to get one and i am prepared to do that so fingers crossed for next year.

Thanks again x

Best of luck and enjoy your Mal visits.

Just thought are you anywhere near Coventry.

This saturday is the once a year Nordic Open show.  It is the only tiem that all the Spitz breeds are on show in one place.

The show is held at the Sports centre. Ryton On Dunsmore.

There is usually a representative entry of Malamutes.

Oooooh that sounds interesting, i am not near Coventry as i live in Kent but am more than happy to travel anywhere so i think weather permitting i may just go and have a look x

hopefully someone can give you the post code for SAT nave, but if you head for Coventry airport you won't be far off.  I think judging starts at 10am, and the show is likely to go on until about 4pm, though many people leave earlier when their classes are finished.

Postcode is CV8 3FL - I shall be there on Saturday too, although in with the Collies rather than at the Nordic.

M.

Sadly I didn't have a lift for the show this year, first time I have missed it in quite a few years.

I have currently a Mal bitch (4), a Mal x rescue boy (6) and a BC (2)...

What a difference between the "big-dogs" and my collie.

I find the main differences are the ones that have already been pointed out. I can get recall with the big dogs, however, it is selective recall and if there is something better out there (rabbits, squirrels etc) then all training is instantly forgotten :rolleyes: My two are very food orientated but even this does not stop them giving chase to a small furry!

They are mostly wonderful with other dogs - we have friends dogs here of all ages, breeds and sex and they are not aggressive at all. The only time they can have "words" is involving food so we do not put them in that situation. They all eat happily together and steal food from each other with no aggression. Sometimes on lead situations can see grumbles. I have been told many different theorys for this but if mine are off lead they are fine. We have had Mals here being fostered, both dogs and bitches and they have seen them as playmates.

Prey drive is high and off lead is not a good idea if they are going to come into contact with any livestock. That said, there are exceptions and I know of Mals brought up with sheep, rabbits, cats etc that happily mix. I keep chickens behind a 3ft sheep fence and they have never been bothered enough to try and jump or dig into the pen. A loose chicken in the garden is another matter and seen as fair game. I guess it depends on how much contact they have with other animals. My two have grown up with cats, but only our cats are not food.

Having a Collie after having Malamutes is wonderful :) I can take him anywhere, let him off lead anywhere, his recall is perfect, he listens to me, he plays with toys and he does not leave tumbleweeds of hair all over the house :D Malamute hair is something else. I have had dogs before but never have I experienced anything like a Mal in full moult...