anyone got any good ideas on dealing with weak pasterns in a giant breed at 13 weeks? Just one in litter like it....biggest boy....almost nil excercise, no stairs, and a giant breed specific diet. I suggested they spoke to vet and asked about some supplements, anyone any thoughts or experiences on this?

Has she not got the breeder to advise? i personally would come off the giant specific food and feed a lower protein adult kibble but i know some breeders do like the Royal Canin breed specific and will know their lines best and i dont disagree with it either its just my personal preference..
Also gentle walking on different surfaces should bring the pasterns right again (ie grass then gravel tightens them up), giant breed boys can be very difficult to rear once you get over one issue another crops up :) give me bitches anytime!!
You see this quite often in a puppy that has been too carefully watched for want of a better phrase never allowed out to romp in the grass, always lead walked etc i let all mine as pups do as they please they are generally self limiting and will quieten down when they've had enough..

As soon as its allowed out you would see an improvement anyway and i wouldnt worry as yet.. you shouldnt really need to supplement with a good quality food, although some dogs are different but i wouldnt be supplementing at 13 weeks as they go through so many growth stages the poor thing would be a rattling medicine bottle if we worried about every turn of foot, slack pastern :D

I have helped at a hydrotherapy pool and we've had large breeds (danes and mastiffs) in from when they were fully vaccinated (around 12 weeks) for non pressure exercise to try and muscle up the back legs and bring up the pasterns.

Kate

I have also seen this when the owners have been almost too careful and the pup has not got much excersise.
Muscles support the growing skeleton and also help in avoiding accidents as the pup is more "compact and held together".
I would say gentle off lead (or on lead first, if the pup is too exitable and might do damage leaping around) exercise in different grounds.
Some people use walking on gravel as it is supposed to make the pup pick up its legs and kind of stand on its toes more, strenghtening the leg...
Any forests near by? little hills (more like big bumps :) ) so he is walking up and down, using the muscles differently should help if they are not too bad.
The pool idea might be better is he needs to strenghten them up gently before doing off lead excersise (to avoid accident/damage)

Also, some giant puppy foods actually have less protein than the adult version so I would check this before even thinking of changing...

Edited to add, too much weight on a pup can also worsen these.
Have the owners been following how much the pup is gaining a week?
Are they aware that it is important to follow the pups weight and that he is not gaining too much per week as his skeleton might not be able to keep up.
I know experienced owners will be able to see is the pup looks ok but for somebody not so experienced skales will help to see the puppy is growing nicely and evenly.
So rather little light puppy than too heavy as this will ease the pressure on this "bend" legs.

A friend of mine has a newfy puppy with this problem and they went to see Steve Butterworth the leading authority in this field, he advised, little but often exercise pounding on hard ground i.e concrete , tarmac etc.
He also said that a change in diet can make the problem worse.
play in the house making the pup stretch foward in to toes.
He also said that swimming makes no difference as in the water they are not treading on anything, unless it is an underwater treadmill.

Peanuts

Peanuts swimming is well known to build up muscle tone without the impact hard walking will do, i havent a clue who this Steve guy is but i suggest he reads a little more into giant breeds..
If i did what he suggested i would go from a dog with weakened pasterns to a dog that suffered from splayed feet too! :D

If in doubt ask the breeder if you've done your research they should be the only 'expert' in that field you would ever need.. :)

Steve Butterworth, MA VetMB CertVR DSAO MRCVS

Well i'll pitch my vet then...

John Innes BVSc(Liv) PhD(Bristol) CertVR DSAS(Orth) MRCVS.

:D according to him my danes are in great shape..

That should be professor by the way ;)

Never said they weren't :) but you asked who he was so there you go ;)

No problem but what one vet says is his opinion what i'm trying to say is if you believed everything you read (as in vets theories) lets not forget the purdue bloat survey, our dogs wouldnt be allowed out the house! or be fed at all.. each to their own i find and an abundance of common sense goes down well.. :)

Steve Butterworth is the chap that you get refered to by your vet and the hard ground walking is for ligaments to support the pastern not for muscle tone.
Steve Butterworth also teaches other vets this field of practice

Peanuts

Peanuts you need muscle to support the body weight in a giant breed :rolleyes: or you end up with a cow hocked, weak pasterned, splayed feet dog...
Think Bambi :D not a good look..

I've had large/giant breeds 35 years and still learning everyday thats why we asked an expert.
luckly i have never had this trouble with mine but it may happen one day you never know.

Peanuts

Cobbles - walking on - If they have access :)  If not, do they have a kennel run or could they make a 'play' area and loose fill it with biggish pebbles or cobbles? This seems to be very effective for tightening weak pasterns in the heavier breeds. Obviously, it would need to be supervised with a puppy to stop it chewing cobbles :rolleyes:

Would walking on loose shingle at the beach help? (Obviously not a very practical idea if you live where I do, but it might help some people!)

would suggest some walking and canovel calcium tablets.

I certainly wouldnt give extra calcium as dogs cant get rid of excess calcium so it will end up being deposited somewhere usually on the joints!! certainly not a good idea in a giant breed..

a giant breed at 13 weeks

Aren't you jumping the gun here? He's 13 weeks old, a bit early for radical 'home cures'.  Is he just down at pastern (slight slope) or is he walking on his wrists? The latter, called carpal subluxation, has an inherited component and is potentially more serious.
I. Ask a breed expert about life stages.
2. Dont meddle with supplements without reference to no1. You risk sparking joint problems.

Hallelujah!! another voice of reason :D

Sam ,
It would appear that mygirl is a breed specialist and would certainly be the one to ask about this topic, the rest of us may have an opinion but I would always approach some one wih experience of lifestages in that particular breed.

well therein lies the problem....combined experience of people so far asked within the breed is in excess of 100 years..... but all have different ideas on how to deal with it   and even 3 vets have 3 different ideas!!! just thought someone on here might be able to offer something new.....but think ill keep it to myself next time!!

Hi Sam
When I had GSD's I lived by the beach...pebbled... and they walked on them every day, in all the time I showed them they were often critiqued as having excellent tight toes and firm pasterns. Not an expert but I would rather go for a natural cure than introduce all kinds of supplements, Just My opinion!
Aileen.

Why cant she just ask the breeder it would save you all this trouble of getting different sets of advice :) I can give you emails of breeders in our breed who would be more than happy to help if you need them. But its always best to go back to the breeder who bred their pup and knows their lines well.

Just to add my knowledge in - i was advised by an orthopedic vet i was referred to that swimming can be bad in certain circumstances - as the extra resistance from the water can make things worse.