Hello, I would like to enquire about allergy friendly breeds.  We are hoping to get a pup soon, and are struggling to decide on the breed.  Choice is narrowed down to miniature poodle or miniature schnauzer, though also interested in cavalier/poodle cross but not sure about the risk of a less allergy friendly coat.
We have children of 14 and 9, and want a good family dog that can join in with lots of activities, walking, running, playing with the kids etc, but is also happy to laze around sometimes.

From the research I've done so far, I feel that the schnauzer may have a slightly easier coat to maintain than the poodle, but I am wary that the schnauzer may be more dog aggressive than the poodle?  Breeders I have spoken to say that neither breed is aggressive with other dogs, and I feel confident that both would be friendly to humans, but possibly breeders WOULD say that as they want to sell their puppies (maybe I am being unfair)?  Also unsure whether to get a dog or a bitch, is there much difference in their behaviour etc?

Anyway, I would love to hear from anyone who has experience - good or bad - of either breed, and can help us make up our minds.  The dog would have lots of love and care, lots of training and socialisation, and would have to be OK to be left 3-4 hours a couple of times a week, and shorter periods, as a busy family we tend to be in and out a lot during the day, though we are always home in the evenings and weekends, or out walking when dog would come too!

Sorry I'm going on a bit here, looking forward to some great advice from you knowledgeable guys.

THANK YOU!

Stick with your idea of the Poodle or Schnauzer please!!  You will need to go and spend time with either breed though to ensure that whoever is allergic isn't allergic to these breeds as they still can be and only way to find out is to spend time with them.

A few Min. Schnauzer's used to come to our training club and they were all great with the other dogs. 

Also you may find your choice much wider than you think as for some people it is certain types of coat, or more often the skin particles that cause the problems.

I have a thick double coated breed, so lots of hair when they moult, yet a lady who had thought herself allergic to most dogs found on visiting relatives who owned my breed that she didn't react at all, as it turned out it was the dander she was allergic to, reacting most to short coated breeds.

Other people react to the saliva, and drool dogs are worse for them.

So as already stated arrange to spend some hours with the breeds you are researching, with different ages too, as some have different coats as pups.

Also you may be fine with Terrier type coats, or any breed that tends to be clipped or stripped and doesn't shed all it's coat, if it is hair that is the problem. 

Also Bedlingtons are supposed to be fairly allergy friendly.

If your OK with wire coats there is a whole host of breeds not only in th terrier group but others too.  Wire Haired Griffon comes to mind in the toy breeds.

Silky coated breeds like Yorkshire Terriers or Maltese?

How bad is the reaction, some people become desensitised to a particular animal or even breed after being with them for a time.

In addition to the coat and way you react to the dog, remember that the character of these breeds is very different.    I find mini Schnauzers, tho lovely dogs, far too fond of their own voice and underfoot for my liking, their coats can also be very difficult depending on breeding, some of them have really profuse fine furnishings that tangle quickly.  You might find that a Poodle or Bedlington, being clipped regularly, would actually be easier coatwise.  Not sure about Poodle temperamnents, but Bedlingtons are very easy to live with, sociable if socialised properly, quick learners and ready for anything, but also like to chill in the house, they don't 'potter' like some small breeds, in some ways they are like whippets, like to dash about outside, but fairly lazy indoors :)  They do have a tendency to ignore commands if it suits them tho ;)

I can confirm what Brainless has said about some people reacting to short coated breeds but being fine with other coats. I seem to have exactly that problem today unfortunately. We've always had dogs, most have had longer coats. Last night we took a young lab (8 months old) on a week's trial to see how he got on with our other dog and I've got awful allergy problems today. My eyes, nose, ears & throat are all itchy, my chest is wheezy & I'm getting a rash on my face. I've had an antihistamine and I'm using eye drops but it's not looking good. I feel completely devastated to be honest, especially as he's so very sweet and is getting along with our other dog fine. It's looking like he will be going back to the breeder very soon and I feel absolutely awful for bringing him home in the first place. I've had horses, several breeds of dog (albeit usually dense/double coated), rabbits, guinea pigs and been fine with all of them.
My mother has asthma & my dogs have always bothered her chest & eyes. However she got a miniature poodle pup a few months ago and has been fine with him. He's a real sweetheart as well, very lively and affectionate. That's the only poodle I really know.
Good luck with your search, hope things work out.
Edited to say: my son has just reminded me that a few years ago we stayed with family and I had an awful allergy the whole time we stayed there. I put it down to all the sprays she was using (fly spray. air freshener etc), never crossed my mind that it could have been their labrador as we'd always had dogs ourselves.

thank you all for your replies, bint you describe exactly what my problem is!  I have not generally had dog allergy problems, but two years ago we got a labrador puppy, and the doggy smell of him really set me off, my throat felt raw as if it was scratched.  We also went to a gundog show and the only dogs which again set me off with nose streaming were the labs!!  My daughters friend often calls when she is dog walking for her neighbours, and has so far brought a cocker spaniel and border terrier, both of which were whiffy and I could not get on with, but we have also had a labradoodle and a jack russell stay with us, and no problems at all.  But as you say it is very very sad to have to return them to the breeder, especialy with children involved, so this is why we are trying so hard to get it right.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with the rescue lab, he sounds lovely and I'm sure he will be found a good home if you do find he is the cause of your symptoms which sound pretty awful.

We are going to see some poodles on Friday, so will let you all know how we get on.

This is why spending time with the given bred is so helpful, as usually and reaction will be apparent within a few hours.

Maybe it is coat oils in your case, as Labs do have double coats, but a different kind of coat to the Northern breeds who have very dense insulating undercoats, but very little odour, and are not oily.

It looks like your choices may be a lot wider than you realise.

Please do not go for a designer (money making) crossbreed.

There are so many breeds with the kind of coats that are aimed for in poodle crosses, why not see how you get on with them.

What size of dog and temperament are you looking for.

Hi Brainless, I'm not sure what Northern breeds are, but the idea of a low odour dog is very appealing.  I can't stand strong odours such as airfresheners, or strong perfumes, so the non oily coat thing is a must.
size wise we want a small to medium size, hence the poodle / min schnauzer idea as that size is perfect.  We are keen walkers, so need a dog which is ok to go all day if needs be, but having had a big dog (weimaraner) years ago, I love the idea now of a smaller one that can come in the pub with us on walks without knocking everything flying !! also I think that it will be more manageable around the kids, and we don't have a huge house (when the labradoodle came to stay she seemed to fill the place).
Temperament wise the best description we are hoping for is "laid back" or maybe "chilled"; I've just had my bosses Jack Russell here for two days, and bless her she is adorable, but everytime I move a muscle she is there under my feet (or in my bed, given half a chance!!).  While it is nice to be adored, I would love a dog who is friendly to all, and happy to just potter around with us.  Hope that makes sense.

But the non shedding idea is also a good one, as the labrador's wafty hairs went everywhere, even though he was only a baby, and I dread to think what a full grown lab's shedding capacity is. 

We are probably favouring the poodle right now, as I read so much about min schnauzers being feisty, but as we don't know anyone with poodles it is hard to know.

Northern breeds are the Spitz breeds from the Northern Hemisphere so would include breeds like my own (Norwegian Elkhound), Samoyed, Norwegian Buhund, Keeshond, German Spitz and for the really energetic and dedicated Siberian Huskies, malamutes etc.

For an easy going smaller Spitz you could do worse than looking at both sizes of German Spits or the slightly larger Keeshond.  All these have stand off long coats requiring some grooming, and all will shed.

The Elkhound and Buhund have shorter coats that shed a lot when moulting but are easy care , the Samoyed has a coat more like the previous mentioned breeds.  Also need more exercise and training than the smaller ones might.

This Saturday is the Nordic show at the sports connection Ryton on Dunsmore (near Coventry), the only show where all the Spitz breeds are in one place.  You would soon know if any of that kind of coat affected you, though there would e the short coated Basenji's there too.

As I said 10 years ago I sold an Elkhound pup to an allergic Norwegian lady who by accident found the breed did not affect her.

For a hairless house go for a miniature or small standard poodle as the size range in standards is wide.  you will need to pay for regular groomer visits (every 6 weeks) or learn to trim the coat yourself.

FWIW, lots of short coated dogs set off my allergies but I find that I have no problem with longer coated breeds, and, as Brainless suggests, the spitz types.  I have a Newfoundland and a Chow X myself and they don't come much hairier than that :)

If you don't like dogs "under your feet" I'm not sure that a Poodle would suit.  They certainly like to be around you all the time, and follow you everywhere. 

I agree it's important to spend a lot of time around the breed before deciding but I've been around other people's labs for years and been ok. For me spending a few hours with the breed wouldn't have been enough. For me it's during the night when things start to kick in. Like I said in my earlier post I had a reaction years ago when I was staying with family but didn't associate it with the lab, thought it was the various sprays she was using all the time.  If you have house dogs, like we do, hairs/dust/etc will get everywhere no matter how much you clean. Maybe 'borrowing' a dog for a couple of days/night is the best way for people like us? I'm going 'cold turkey' to see how bad things get and to see whether my reaction is manageable longterm. I've been on the verge of tears since yesterday, really don't want to send him back. Just wanted to point out that it wasn't a spur of the moment thing we did in taking the dog on trial.

Hi

Just thought I would pop and join this conversation !

Just to say not all Labs smell ;) It is all about grooming,care of the dogs coat,how much they swim, how often you clean their bedding and diet :)

My OH is allergic to cats and dogs and we have both :) It is all about desensitiving and everytime we have had another puppy he suffers very badly at first but with plenty of zirtex after a few weeks he is fine ! If he has rough and tumble with them he does get sneezy but if fine a few hours later !

The kitten were worse and it took about six weeks before he was able to tolerate them without zirtex :)

Lucy
xx

Many dogs cause me to break out in a rash, eyes water - the works. I have golden retrievers now and they don't bother me at all. I'm very good with the spitz breeds Brainless listed and I'm allergic to just about everything (don't even say the word cat around me!) Make sure you spend time with the breed you choose. I spent hours with several spinones on separate occasion with no reaction so I waited and found a spinone puppy. Three days after bringing her home I was so bad she had to go back to the breeder - it broke my heart. I have to avoid hounds and most short coated dogs.

Regarding walking and exercise, barring the brachycephalic breeds, I have yet to see any breed that couldn't out walk its owner. ;-)

Sadly most don't get the opportunity.

You'll understand how I feel then Lori?

Exactly how you feel bint. Sobbed my eyes out for days. I had to keep telling myself that she didn't go anywhere awful though. She'd only been with us for 3 days so she hadn't bonded that much. It was just a nice weekend with a big friendly golden retriever. I could have tried to find a cure but that would have been for my benefit, not hers. I couldn't bear the thought of her having to be rehomed after she bonded with us. She found a new family that adores her and her breeder has sent me pictures and updates. :)

True Barbara. I have a friend with a bull dog and he is so fit. He walks with her bloodhounds and her collies. And he loves nothing more than a good roll in the mud!

(don't even say the word cat around me!)

"cat"

teehee :D :D :D :D :D :D

Libran - how did it go ?

I am sooo jealous - i'd love a poodle .  Tell us all about the visit and what you have decided .

Well, we went to visit the poodle breeder yesterday, she has all three sizes which was very helpful.  Definitely if we go for the poodle it will be a miniature, and we met the prospective mum and dad (just waiting for nature to take its course).  Both were very friendly, and the boy cuddled up to my 14 year old and then fell asleep on his lap!!  The toys were hectic, but the minatures seemed much calmer, and they are very used to children.  We were very happy with the breeder and the set up, and the dogs were all relaxed and friendly.  No problem with any sneezing or itchy throat, which I was very pleased about, and the dogs did not smell either.

However, as soon as the breeder left the room the dogs were off looking for her to come back, and this is something which concerns me a little.  Obviously she has a houseful of dogs so they are never really 'alone'.  I would love to hear from anyone who has just one poodle, to ask how well they get used to being on their own, not just when we got out, but also when we are at home, or is the poodle likely to follow us from room to room?  Maybe it is a confidence thing, and they do settle??   I don't mean to sound like I would be leaving the poor thing alone all the time, but having had a dog with separation issues in the past, I am slightly paranoid about it happening again, so don't want to choose a breed prone to it just because I did not research enough.  Unfortunately asking breeders does not always help as they invariabley have lots of dogs!!

>However, as soon as the breeder left the room the dogs were off looking for her to come back

This may have been because there were visitors/strangers present. My Dobe keeps his eye on me and follows me around much more if we have people he doesn't know very well in the house.

they may have been looking for signs that she or they were going to go out as visitors often mean a trip out.

Hi I am new to the champ dogs message board, but if it is any help, I have 2 apricot toy poodles both dogs and I find them very affectionate, I have to admit they do follow me around a lot but as i have had several toy poodles before it doesn't worry me. They do require clipping at least every 8 weeks at least but then you dont have the problem of dog hairs everywhere. I hope this is of help to you.

You say the breeder has both mum and dad - this might not be the ideal situation. Breeders who are trying to breed the best possible dogs will look for the best dog to compliment their bitch so it would be quite rare for her to own two dogs that are the best match for each other.

Breeders looking to improve the breed  have to spend a lot of time and effort researching in order to find the best match for conformation, health and temperament. It would be quite surprising to find that one person owns two dogs that are the best possible match for each other.

Does she breed a lot of dogs?

I have to say I totally disagree with you on this.  Many many breeders keep both the sire and dam of their prospective litters.  Line breeding is a very careful and clever way of breeding.  Yes, occasionally breeders do "go out" to bring a new line into their bloodlines.  If this breeder has a number of dogs as suggested I wouldnt be put off by the fact that they have both parents.......unless of course conditions of the dogs and their general well being were in doubt.  There are still "breeders" out there who do keep more than one dog and bitch.

The days of the large kennels with several lines of breeding kept are largely dead.  the chances of a breeder having both parents is less likely than them going out to use another persons male.  Perhaps in some small toy breeds people keep all their breeding stock under one roof, but this does not generally apply.

Yes a breeder may import or buy in a male especially for their own bitch, but this is likely to only happen for one or two litters after that the dog is no longer of use to the breeder, unless they buy in bitches for him or pups from litters he sires, so if it were available in someone Else's kennel paying a stud fee is by far the more usual option.  There would be no reason for them to own it.

Line breeding can be and is practiced perfectly well without ever having to own a male dog of your own.

I must be in the minority then being in the position to own both males and females of my chosen breed with my own bloodlines going back some 35 years.  Yes, I have imported and gone out for new bloodlines, but I really dont see why owning both sire and dam should put people off buying puppies.  If the respective health checks etc have been carried out then surely being able to view both parents is an added bonus, not to mention grandparents and great grandparents.
I do understand that other people are not so fortunate, and yes, sadly, the days of the big kennels are long gone.

Then you will agree you are in the minority and many people with both bitch and sire are simply mating pet dogs and avoiding having to pay a stud fee for the best dog.

Molly1 - I know nothing about breeding from personal experience as have never bred and am never going to :) But, when researching on the do's and don'ts of buying a puppy, this was one of the things I was told to watch out for and to avoid. If one has no experience of buying a puppy from a reputable breeder who only breeds from the best examples of the breed (health, comformation and temperament all taken into consideration) it is certainly something to look out for IMHO.

As many have found out to their cost KC registered does not necessarily mean that you are  buying quality which so many novice owners do not realise - I hadn't a clue that this was so until I joined this forum :) It may be a good idea for the OP to do a search on here for the many topics that have discussed the things to look for when buying a puppy.

Well I was going to suggest an Irish Water Spaniel but  they do have oily coats:rolleyes:l 

Poodles are very clever, so the kids will love it no doubt as they can learn all sorts of circus tricks quickly. The women in my family have a soft spot for them and have owned several over the years and from what I can remember about them is that they live to a good age, but suffer from bad teeth because they live to be such oldies. Also, my nanny, mother and aunts would sit for hours pulling the hair out of their poodles ears with tweezers and wipeing their eyes. As a kid, my mother insisted that I take her poodle out with me, then he would have to be carried home from our day long trips into the countryside just because he could not keep up. How I longed for a real dog then and would borrow the neighbourhood collies in preferance,he he he.:)
It sounds like I don't like them doesn't it? Well I do, they are irrisistable and for your needs a poodle could do nicely I think.

Let us know when you have chosen one please.

I assume your comments are about the ty size.  I can't see anyone exhausting a standard or even a minature.

Have you contacted the breed club ? They can advise on breeders and testing .
Also , it may be wise to read a breed specific book - i like ' The Everything Poodle Book ' .

How did you find them allergy wise ?

I know you are quite far down this route - but just in case - a Hungarian Puli is also a breed that people with allergies dont react to - non moulting etc.

They are great fun, fantastic to train, very hardy healthwise and very adaptable to routines....

Good luck with whatever puppy you have

Maxine

I don't think they would score on low odour though

Im very new to this site but own a 8 month old black miniature poodle so thought i would give you my opinion on them, although obviously entirely up to to make the final decision.
This is my first dog and as im young (21) i wanted something that could be a good family pet when i decide to have children, didnt malt (a)im not keen on fur, and (b) i suffer from eczema, plus all the other reasons people get dogs-fun, company etc etc. I'v had Fred since he was 7 weeks and can honestly say he's the best thing ever! As for temperment he is fantastic. Poodles are known for being a bit crazy but he seems to know when to have a funny five minutes and when to calm down. When we are out walking lots of people like to stop and admire him. If there is a child with the person i am talking to, he lays down and allows them to pet him-almost like he knows he cant jump up or he would scare them. So definately would recommend them as a family pet. Also good for agility (when they are older) which is something im considering and would recommend training/socialising as they seem to need it and Fred has learnt lots. he's great for a leisurely stroll or a mad run on the beach. A general all rounder. Down sides - depending on how you look at it- they do need lots off attention i.e. training to curb what could turn into bad behaviour and regular trims are a must. Sorry for rabbiting on but as you can tell i am passionate and would recommend poodles but you need to think long and hard about the decision. Even though i was 99% sure i read lots of books and did my research. Only thing i would change is the breeder so be carefull where you get your pup from. Cheers.x. 

hahaha - yes - we do have a lovely Hungarian Room Scent at times....

and a veritable forest floor in the lounge after some walks...

Maxine