A new friend of mine has asked me a question that I hope CD's maybe able to help me answer!
Her bitch had her first litter of pups back in February this year, she then had a season in July, she had planned to mate her again after the july season as she wants a female from the litter, but now her bitch has come into season again early about 2 - 3 months early.
Now my friend is not sure whether it is too early to have her mated, or to wait for her next season?  She was not due to come into season until January next, so should she wait or is it 'responsible breeding' if she mates her now?

I am not a breeder but all I would say is Why Rush?

Well by the time the pups were born it would be about a year since last litter, which you would think would be fine.. but I'm not sure anyone could answer that positively without knowing the bitch well. How many pups did she have, was it an easy whelping, what condition was she in when they left home, how long did it take for her to get back to top condition are all things that have to be asked and thought about imo :)

If she is in a rush to have a puppy from her, why didnt she keep one from the first litter? Or were there no bitches? if it didnt fit into her time plan of having a puppy, why didnt she wait until it was? Why the rush now for yet another litter, unless age is against her why can't she wait for the next season. give the bitch a break and a good chance to recover from her first litter.

I would imagine (hope!) that your friend belongs to her breed club.  What does the club's code of ethics say?

Personally I'd wait another season, or maybe two, to see how the first litter turn out as adults.

I would say go for it, as pups wouldn't be born until January so about 11 months since last time, she has had a clear season in between.  I am assuming the bitch is in super fit condition.  the next season would give her a litter in the middle of summer which may well not be as convenient for her.

well, if summer puppies are a problem, why not wait until the season after.

She may then be too old or the breeder wanted a puppy sooner but all the quality was in the wrong sex in the last litter.

If the bitch isn't getting on in age and getting to the stage where age would be a deciding factor, I'd say wait.  Not only for the next season but until the first litter are at least 18 months - 2 years old.  That way she can determine whether there are any problems being thrown up which need to be addressed.

Debs

>That way she can determine whether there are any problems being thrown up which need to be addressed.

That's very important. Some problems take time to show themselves - the hip-scores of the pups; their eye-tests; epilepsy often doesn't strike until 3 or 4 years of age. I'd certainly want to wait until the first litter was properly assessable.

I agree - why the rush?   I'd wait a good 2 clear seasons inbetween mating a bitch to let her get back to full body condition & strength.

That's very important. Some problems take time to show themselves - the hip-scores of the pups; their eye-tests; epilepsy often doesn't strike until 3 or 4 years of age. I'd certainly want to wait until the first litter was properly assessable.

Also if it's a large breed & elbow scoring is applicable I would say that by the age of 2, elbows should be looked at, not at one.  I know of somebody who had their dogs elbow x-rayed at a year old and the score is 0 but on questioning why the dog was still lame, was referred to a specialist and upon looking at the same x-ray plates, the specialist told the owner her dog has early signs of ED.   Had she waited another year, the signs would've been more evident.

And HC is occuring more so in my breed now from some dogs that have tested clear previously, they are now coming back with eye test failures.

Its always best to wait and assess what problems - if any - come back from a litter and then think about mating again.  This si one of the reasons I'm in favour of waiting to mate bitches and using older sires, you get a clearer picture of the same health problems that may occur in other litters.

Mysty who had her litter yesterday had her previous litter last July so there is well over a year between them. I wouldn't have bred with less than a year between litters

Spoke to my friend again, she actually wants to keep a male, the last litter only produced 4 bitches.  The birth of the puppies was all natural and no complications.
As the bitch has come into season earlier then expected, this is why she needs to make up her mind as she did plan for the litter for a march birth, but if she mates now it would be a January litter with a difference of 2 - 3 months to make it a year break.
The bitch is very healthy is 3 1/2 years old, large breed, had all checks done, and recovered well from the last litter, she has a full coat and has put a nice weight back on, I want to advise my firend, and tried to think of what I would do in her situtation, but it is very difficult!!
As the bitch is 2 months early for her season, a part of me feels it would not make much difference to breed from her, but then the other side of me feels it could be too early as it has not been a full year since the last litter and I am a believer in at least 12 months grace before mating a bitch again.
I suppose that answers my question!!

Even though the bitch had a smallish litter, the fact that she is pretty young herself so no ticking clock on that score, and if the timing next season doesn't seriously cause issues then in this case I would wait until the next or next but one season.

This would be to see how the pups and Mum herself turn out long term.  If that bitch had been fully mature heading towards five years beyond the onset of most hereditary issues then I would not feel the need to assess the pups for as long knowing her own health was not an issue.

I would wait till next season, what's the rush? Give her a good break.

I think given her age and the fact she's a large breed I'd be waiting until at least some of the first litter had had the relevant health tests before planning further matings.

i can see where you are coming from by stating that you should wait to see how the first litter pans out with health checks. HD is not only heredity but can be caused through poor nutrition, too much protein cause the puppy to grow too quick and also through too much strenuos exercise. so would you not breed the bitch again if HD showed up?
Gemini05.-- if your friends bitch is healthy and fully recovered from the litter nearly 1 year ago i would put her in pup. I waited to breed a bitch of mine then lost her tragically(i still miss her terribly)now i have nothing as this was going to be her last litter so i was keeping a little girl. nobody ever knows what is round the corner!

Thanks for the explanation on HD, I was aware though that HD is only 15-25% (Depending on the 'expert') hereditary, environmental factors can play a big part in determining the score too however if this is a big breed it is probably one that can suffer from ED too and as my previous post had stated x-raying elbows at a year old doesn't alway give a true picture.    Also are all the males entire, are all bites correct etc.?

If you are more aware of what problems may be thrown up throughout a litter it can help you be guided by your choice of stud dog for the next litter.  I still think she'd be best waiting, the bitch is easily young enough to have a good break between litters.  

I agree, I think if the bitch is only 3 & 1\2 yrs then there's no rush and waiting for the next season, or even the one after, would be better. If ever I breed, I wouldn't want to mate a bitch within one year of a litter unless circumstances were absolutely exceptional (such as what I can't think of at the moment!).

I am completely confused.  She doesn't appear to be 2-3 months early at all at the most a couple of weeks.

If puppies were born in Feb this year she must have been mated in the Dec .  If she has just came in season now,( she won't be mated for 10-12 days)  that will be as good as 1 year between the litters AND 2 seasons. 

The fact the question is being asked concerns me more than the mating.   Whether she mates her this season or not due to time does't honestly make her responsible or not it is the reason behind the litter and how good the portential parents are.

To answer the question though presuming all other criteria is fine then I see no problem if the bitch is fit and healthy.

Our breed recommends you leave a season between matings, so as long as the litter appears to be growing up healthy, and the bitch is totally recovered, I don't see why not. But if there's no particular need to mate her on this season, there's no rush either. Sorry, not much help there! :-D

Hi and thanks for all the input on my thread.
My friend is going to wait for the next season, several reasons really, but the main one is that she wants to do it right and to have a another litter from the same bitch within 12 months is not right, even be it a month or two.

Her bitch is very healthy and a good standard for the breed thanks again everyone xx