Hey all. My question this time is about my noise phobic dog.
Basically she has been gradually getting worse with her noise phobia. It used to just be little bangs she responded badly too but over the years (she is 4yrs old now) it is getting ridiculous. She runs away from every little noise be it a clatter in the kitchen or a door closing slightly loudly. To the clinking of cans. She runs away every time I open the freezer or fridge or any cuboard as they make a little noise. It is not just this though as I can cope with this by just ignoring it.

Now she is just really lathargic all day. She hates walks because there is usually some noise (cars, traffic works, any bangs, sirens etc...) and so she runs away from whenever I bring the lead out. Again copeable with.

But on the walks she never leaves my side (she used to be a naughty cheeky dog who would be after every smell (but had good recall)) if we stop walking I can see her continuously quivering. If we see a person she sprints too them because she wants reassurance (makes me feel awful :( ) Her ears are always back and tail tight round her bum.

Now she refuses to comply with any of my cues (commands) at home and it isn't stubborness because her eyes go wide and I can see the whites of her eyes (no I don't use harsh methods). I try and act happy but nothing works she just wants to sleep. She just seems to eat and sleep, do her business and walk unwillingly. If I don't walk her she doesn't get any more active.

When back home and with Ziggi my other dog she isn't unfit or unhealthy as she runs after everything and they compete at chasing the unknown thing in the distance lol!

Basically I feel like I am doing something wrong or could there be anything physically wrong (hyperthyrodism??? - link to nervousness) Just hate seeing her like this.

She now hates the car too - she heard fireworks in there. She just isn't a happy dog and I don't know what to do.
Any help would be appreciated.

I sedated her over the fireworks and she was always much happier to come on walks the next day when she still had it in her system. But diazepam is addictive so I can't give her it constantly.

Sorry I always come on here about my same problems but I try all the techniques - happy go lucky in everything, cd's, not walking her, clicker training etc... but she doesn't change.

She always used to be ball mad and now on walks even if I throw her ball in a chucker she won't run for it.
Thanks
A worried owner

happy go lucky in everything, cd's, not walking her, clicker training etc... but she doesn't change.

If she's phobic, making her face her fears by making her go for walks etc is going to make her far worse. You can stop walking her - one of the suggestions mentioned - but you need to do more than that to help her get over her fears :)

You've obviously been to your vet as she's been having diazepam. Was there any help with a behavioural programme or were you just given the drug?

I'd really not try and take her out at the moment - she sound so stressed. What originally made her like this, can you pinoint it?

I know of a staffie bitch who was scared by hot air ballooons, also by the smell of grass and children, as all of these were present when she was scared by the balloon. It is not uncommon, but unless actually treated with a behaviour programme, it can get worse and "generalise" to many other things, as you have found unfortunately, :(

With fireworks you need to take into account things like vibration, here's a good bit of info:

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/news/dogs-and-fireworks.html

note the info re. flashing lights, vibration etc.

but you will need mor ehelp. I'd suggest contacting a reputable behaviourist, you could try www.apbc.org.uk

Is she at college with you just now? As if she is happier at home with Ziggi could you consider letting her go there if it helps her?

Lindsay
x

I think to fireworks you also need to add the associated smells.

Will reply tomorrow but just wanted to say thanks for the info. I am really tired and have to get up for work early tomorrow morning. Thanks though

She certainly sounds as though she has had a radical change in her behaviour - have all medical causes been ruled out?  I think personally I'd firstly have her checked over thoroughly by the vet in case there is an underlying cause.

It may also be worthwhile in the immediate term to use DAP diffiusers in a couple of her *spaces* in the house - I have good friends who have found this to be an extremely effective way of dealing with a dog which became increasingly noise sensitive following a traumatic experience during Guy Fawkes celebrations.  They also found a marked difference using a DAP spray in the car before travelling.  DAPs don't work for every dog or for every situation but they do have their place and it may ease some of the pressures on both dog and owner in the interim until such times as either a health reason is addressed or a professionally prepared behaviour modification program is in place.

I hope this helps meantime.  Regards, Teri :)

I had on older boxer (7)who started diplaying the symptoms you describe. I would describe it as just being scared all the time like panic attacks, totally out of character for her.The vet felt that it was a neurological condition and suggested a scan by a specialist. Before I got to this appointment she had a stroke and shortly afterwards died , the vet felt that she may have had a ongoing changes in the brain. Sorry to be gloomy but I suggest that you get this investigated asap.

So sorry to hear about your boxer. I don't think it is any brain thing due to there being one major incident that started the snowball. We were on a walk and something freeked her out. She bolted for home and we believe got hit by a motorbike or car on the way. She wasn't hurt but since then she sometimes gets stiff and that is when her fear of cars and traffic started (particularly motorbikes).

Thankyou Teri. I will get her to a vet for a health check and insist on bloods etc...
I will get two plug in diffusers and I may get a collar too. The reason we havn't had them before is because we believe my other dog is allergic to them as she came out in hives each time we tried it!

I have a dap spray so will also use that.

I just want to say that I have tried so hard with her and all the behavioural techniques suggested have been put into place with full commitment. It just seems to be a too huge a problem to overcome and I am at a loss as to where to start. It hasn't really been a radical change but gradual over the years.

My dream job is to become a dogs for the disabled trainer but this is giving me serious doughts as to whether I am good enough :(
I hate seeing her like this and realise that some of you wouldn't take her out but she then just sleeps the whole time and seems to get more down in the dumps. She will still chase squirrels which is a good thing I suppose.

Could anyone give me any tips on what to say to the vets?

As Diazepam helped her in the short term, have you thought about herbal Valerian to support rehabilitation?   It works in the same way as diazepam but isn't addictive, doesn't 'dope' them and the dosage can be reduced gradually to nothing as the dog learns to relax again.  In brief, it stops the cycle of fear reinforcing itself. 

I used it on our Burmese cats when we had our first pup after no dogs in the house for 3 years.  After 8 weeks they still were hiding under the beds upstairs, creeping about snarling all day and hardly eating :rolleyes: they'd panic even if we went upstairs (Burmese are extremists with everything)  so in the end I started dosing them with Valerian tincture and they calmed down enough for me to start bringing them downstairs briefly in cages to just familiarise them with the new pup, 8 weeks later they were living downstairs again but still on Valerian, but as they relaxed more the dose was gradually reduced until they were off it.

I'm not sure what dosage you would need to stat with, but about half the human dose would be a first guess and then see how she responds to it and take it from there.

I hope you can solve this, it sounds like life isn't much fun for either of you at the moment.

{{{HUGS}}} for you and your girl

Thanks for this. Yes she is on Valerian drops. But not sure if they help at all but thanks for the recommendation.

> Could anyone give me any tips on what to say to the vets?

Maybe say you are concerned about her noise phobia as it's becoming progressive and more & more generalised, you would like a full physical examination and blood tests to rule out any medical problems as she has got worse recently, and if they can't find anything do they thing she would benefit from a  behavioural training programme, would medication to calm her be helpful, and can they recommend someone for the behaviour - if so what are their qualifications?   Tell them what you've already tried as well, and what difference it made, if any.

Have you tried T Touch massage techniques ?

Yes have been to a ttouch practitioner and it worked to begin with but she started to really dislike it. I may start it up gradually again as I had completely forgotten about it. She seems to prefer just a normal massage where the circles go round about 6 times before moving so I do it like that now. She also wears an anxiety bandage wrap.

I've just been sent a copy of Sarah Fishers latest book Unlock Your Dog's Potential & she shows all the different techniques you can use. Any circular massage will help Jessie likes her paws massaging best ! It quickly calms her down

Have you tried a DAP plug in and DAP collar? They don't work for every dog but they might help, and the collar would be there out on walks too.  Have you had a good behaviourist in? That might be a good way to go, following a full vet check\ bloods, and they might possibly want to put her on medication while working with her fear if she's that scared, just to calm her down a bit, as no-one can learn while they're panicking.

I have been to a behaviourist who helped my other dog loads with her tips. But nothing seems to work. She suggested propanalol and phenobarbitone which my mum is sending me up from home. The reason we didn't start it up properly before was because she and Ziggi play really roughly and Pesto was getting unsteady on her feet. She then went on a walk and was winded when a weim ran into her and knocked her on to  her side. I am going to start it up properly and try desensitising her again with the use of all the above means lol!

Thanks for all the reminders of what to do. Sometimes you just forget everything as you have tried so much. Any other tips would be great.
What do people think if I did this:
Med to calm her so she can actually be desensitised.
Massage to relax and rebuild mine and her relationship
Fun and games on walks with much treating and squeaky toys.
DAP collar for out and about
DAP diffuser for 2 rooms in house
DAP spray for car

If I make a loud noise in the house should I just chuck treats on to the floor whilst ignoring her so that she associates a noise with meaning food? or should I just ignore her?
Thanks for the help. She is my first dog but has completely changed my life - and future as I would never thought of dog training before but not sure if I will be good enough

I'd take the advice of your behaviourist but desensitising and counterconditioning is usually very important in this type of case.
It is working on the emotions of the dog and actually getting them to associate horrible things - to them - with nice things so their
conditioned emotional response to the noise is a happier one.

For example, my dog is a breed who is very sensitive (BSD) and knowing this I always make it great fun if we hear any bangs on walks - out comes
her very favourite toy and we have a game. Sometimes it works if you literally associate the nice thing with the not so nice thing, but this you
will need to discuss with your helper :)

Check out desensitising and counterconditioning if you're not already aware of it :)
Also, you may find Pat McConnell's booklet  "The Cautious Canine" useful, it explains how to do this, and may give you some more
ideas or at least a deeper understanding.

Don't lose heart and give up your dreams of working with dogs - we all have to learn and your girl is not an easy case by far!!!!!

Keep your chin up :)

Lindsay
x

Yes I agree.

Basically yes it is retraining the mind...  Cognitive Therapy for dogs.

Oh the poor girl.  One problem can be that we ourselves are aware of what may well have caused the fear and subconsciously we explain to ourselves the justification for the fear and so without realising it excuse the fear and reinforce the fear.  With our training we focus so much on the issue that we make the fear reactions worse.  The more we try the worse the fear. So we are dealing with training ourselves as well as the dog. Or that's what I find.

I've a sound sensitive dog too but he is a lot better as time goes on...  when he reacts more I realise I gave him eye contact or stooped with concern or in some may pandered to the fear instead of ignoring being upbeat and standing up straight and playing distractions.

Yu describe the walks. The walks sound like they are increasing the fear...walks are a pleasure and if they are not a pleasure for the dog change the way you exercise the dog.

Mine is a guarding breed and therefore has a brilliant inbuilt very fine and sensitive sight sound scent radar facilities. Anyway with the fear issue tis is not good really! So I know in the woods he will be more on guard and tense because he is watching for anything that might burst out and attack us especially at this time of year when it is quite dark  so mostly I have him in an open space and I run about and play very actively with him all the time he is being exercise and then back on lead and home. He has no time to be a fearful guarddog. Okay people think I'm nuts with all our silly games  but what the heck! It helps with a problem!   So I would advise exercises that fills your girls brain with activity... do you do heel work to music?  This is good exercises you can do even in the house with music on to calm her and her brain will be working, increased the bond between you and is a fun distraction  for you both.

The fear you describe is incredibly  severe and if this happened after being hit by a car? Have you been able to get some kind of brain scan to make sure the accident has not actually caused some level of brain damage?  Someone mentioned this in an earlier post that a specific brain condition caused this in their dog and sadly the dog died, but this is unlikely to be the same as it was due to a specific incident  but just  maybe the car accident did more than cause a fear? Just thinking in case it was a possibility....because really I'd guess the vet checked this out.

In the house if there is a bang that scares the dog I would just do absolutely nothing...just ignore it. If my dog reacted to it by going to hide I would ignore the dog. If my dog reacted with unwanted behaviour I would tell it no .  

The Pat McConnell book looks interesting.

Some little bits of improvement have been seen (big whoop from me :D)
She is wearing her anxiety wrap plus t-shirt on walks which she is not minding so much. I am not giving her any attention except when her tail wags (e.g. when seeing squirrells) she even managed to chase her ball about 5 times. I realised that I was giving her eye contact every time I heard a bang.

She is wearing her anxiety bandage in the house so she doesn't associate it with her walks. She is much more waggy and happy to do as I ask. I have been doing massage on her when ever she comes for a cuddle and she is comming to me more and more for it.

She has been prescribed Phenobarbitone and Propanalol, by the behaviourist we saw a while back, so when she gets on them I will be able to start proper dessensitisation and counter conditioning as at the moment nothing can distract her.

Thanks for all your help.
She still has a long way to go but at least it is a start however I know this probably will go down hill again in a couple of days but I hope it doesn't.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

> Some little bits of improvement have been seen

Excellent. Hope things keep going that way.

Oh that is better - do keep us updated! fingers crossed ...:)

Lindsay
x

*********UPDATE*********UPDATE*********UPDATE *********

Pesto is no longer walking at all. No longer getting out of the house at all unless to the car and even then it is very occasionally. Once in the car she won't get out and growls if you try.

It seems to have moved on to extremes as she behaves very oddly if she has heard any noise in the house and avoids the place it happened. For example there is a mop and bucket that once fell over as she was exiting from the kitchen. She now always exits slowely or really quickly which usually leads to her slipping on the lino and scaring herself more.

She seems to be agoraphobic now as if ever she does get out of the car she pulls hugely to any inside space or protection from parked cars.
I think had her behaviour not been so extreme all your brilliant suggestions would have worked.

We have just got a new referal from the vet to see Sarah Heath - I believe she is a very good behaviourist but any thoughts would be great.
I suspect a course of drugs will be needed. I don't think that she will ever enjoy walks but to start with I am going to aim for her to not cower when the lead comes out and for her to be relaxed when outside so that I can at least get her to and from the car without the hassle we have at the moment.

Thanks for all your advise and I will update you more once Sarah has been to see us. I am going to put my full effort into the behavioural modification program as Pesto needs me to.

I am training her lots and playing ball in the house but it isn't the same as a walk to tire her and she is getting rather OTT as she is cooped up.

At home she will occasionally walk if there is Me, my mum, Ziggi and her all going to Richmond Park and only then to a specific car park and only then if it isn't raining!!!

She is a petrified little dog and I just don't understand where this has all come from.

The problem I think will be that there are just so many noises that freak her out. It is because of this that I just don't have a clue where to start and hope Sarah Heath will be able to help me with that.

Sorry for rambling (as I always do!)
Anna

Sorry that her problem seems to be getting worse :( Hope the behaviourist is able to help her.

As well as playing and training with her you could also try some extra mental exercising. Have you tried putting a treat in a lidless, empty plastic bottle and letting her work out how to get it out, or perhaps wrapping some treats up rather like pass the parcel for her to find?

We also play a hiding game with our dogs which wears them out wonderfully when needed :) First I taught them the name of several toys - rope, ball, duck, tuggy etc and then started to hide one of the toys right in front of their noses and rewarding when they "found" them - either with a treat or a play with the toy. I gradually introduced the command "find the rope" etc and started hiding them in more obscure places while leaving the dog in a stay in another room.

Our GR loves this game and it is great watching him searching the toys out. He never forgets any of the places you have previously hidden them so when he walks into a room on his search he automatically checks the door handle, the ceiling fans, behind the chairs etc. He has also learnt the different sounds that are recognisable in different rooms - the bathroom tiles when you walk on them, the squeaky hinge on the living room door so has a good idea as to where to start his search :)

And we also find ourselves whispering when we ask each other where the rope has been hidden so he doesn't overhear us :)- now he is a smart dog but not that smart :)

Hi
Did you get your dog vet checked again back in November?  If she was okay, could you get a referral............I'm thinking of Professor Daniel Mills at Lincoln Uni;  he is VERY good. 
http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/dbs/abc/

I rang him once with a query and found him very helpful even though I hadn't been to see him at that stage for a consultation. 

Thanks for your link. I have been referred to Sarah Heath. So hoping that she will shed some light as to where to go next.
Thanks though
Anna

Re:  Everyday noises frightening her, this might sound like a whacky idea,  but have you thought of dog ear plugs? You can ask your vet or some pet shops may sell them, I read somewhere not so long ago, (sorry don't know where) that some people buy them for firework night if their dog is particularly frightened.

My thought is that you could use them in the home on and off to minimize the noises like your freezer opening, or even some of the walks to see if this helps at all, if it does you could use them frequently to start with and then have one daytime on and one day off and see if this will gradually help her realise that the noises aren't going to hurt her and sensitize her to them.

Talk to your vet about it first though but maybe combined with a behaviourists help it could be of some assistance to her. :-)

I have tried bandaging her head up to minimise noise but it always came off. I will have to look for some because that may actually really help. The only thing that I would worry about is her not being able to hear me in an emergency situation - not sure what but it makes me a little nervous having a dog that can't hear.

May be my fears are not sensible and I may be worrying too much.
Thanks for the suggestion though I am going to go and google now.
Anna

>The only thing that I would worry about is her not being able to hear me in an emergency situation - not sure what but it makes me a little nervous having a dog that can't hear.

Perhaps you try a vibrating collar (not an e-collar) like those used to train deaf dogs in case of emergency situations where you need to get her attention fast. 

No problem and good luck!  :-)

I have tried bandaging her head up to minimise noise but it always came off.

Really pleased that you have a referral  now :) Have you tried using the legs from a pair of tights.If you look at the first photo in my profile you can see a picture of my Golden Retriever wearing his tights :) I use them when the fireworks are around. As he has floppy ears I put some cotton wool under his ears and then slide the cut off leg over his head, it is firm enough to stay put but not so tight that it cuts off his circulation and works very well at reducing the level of noise he can hear and, subsequently, the level of panic he feels.

Might be worth a try.

I have tried the tights too but she has quite a small but pointy head unlike they slightly squareness of a golden and they just seem to slide off.

I have been googling and googling doggy earplugs but to no success so if anyone has a link that would be much appreciated.

I am still to have the behaviourist ring me for an appointment but hopefully that will come fairly soon.

Thanks for that tip. I didn't realise they did them. I will have to find the earplugs first and then see if they help to calm her. Then if they do a vibrating collar may just work.
Thanks