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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Not ready yet?
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 08.11.07 16:45 UTC
My bitch (maiden) is on day 13 today. Yesterday she had a blood test at the vet, apparently the result showed that she was about to ovulate in the next 24 hrs and the vet advised today is the best day to mate. But she is definitely not willing or ready physically. I have read on here that it can be a couple of days after ovulation before they are willing to stand? I am really wondering how long I am likely to have to wait before she is ready?
- By Brainless [gb] Date 08.11.07 17:06 UTC
Sounds like a nearly test result, unfortunately they can stay that way for a few days before the test shows actual ovulation.  Once ovulation itself has occurred you have about 48 hours until the eggs are ripe and another 48 hours before they die.

When I had the blood tests knowing my bitch and her previous behaviour I had a blood test done on day 11, which showed  she was nearly ready to ovulate, the same next day,a nd on the third day that ovulation had begun.  She wasn't mated until 2 days after that.

You really need a series of premate blood tests starting with a definite not ready then when the tests show the levels rising test daily until you get a positive result.

If you had the quantitative Elisa test and the results were above the levels at which the average bitch ovulates then you would have as I said about 4 days from ovulation.
- By jackson [gb] Date 08.11.07 17:28 UTC
When you say she wouldn't stand, are you and the stud dog owner very experienced? Lots of maidens get frightened at first and won't stand at all.

My bitch was mated on day 13 and 15, and neither time stood as I imagined she would (my 'first time' too) but she had a litter of 9 puppies, above average for her breed,s o she must have been ready. According the to very experienced stud dog owner (30 plus years) her behaviour was not uncommon for a maiden bitch.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 08.11.07 17:32 UTC
An expereinced stud dog's reaction is usually the best guide to a bitch being ready.
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 08.11.07 17:43 UTC
Well I am not even there!! I have left her with the stud dog owner as it is too far away and am relying on progress reports, luckily I trust her completely and she knows my girl well. She is experienced but it is a first time for both dogs!!  I have to say my girl is a really pampered pooch - spoilt!!!- and may well be frightened which worries me. Do they always stand when they are physically ready or do some refuse altogether?!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 08.11.07 17:57 UTC
Trying to mate two maidens quite often ends in no mating.  Some bitches will flatly refuse to be mated, especially with an inexpereinced male, and stand as good as gold for an expereinced one as his authority and confidence have the effect of making her more willing and at ease.   Even soem older bitches want a masterful mate, but others are kind to first timers..
- By ChristineW Date 08.11.07 18:09 UTC
It will probably be because she just isn't quite ready yet.   My first litter was from 2 maiden dogs and he was coming up for 7 years old but I got the day spot on from their reactions to one another and a litter of 14 arrived 63 days later!  Where there's a 'will' there's a way!  ;)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 08.11.07 18:12 UTC
A dog I bred after having been refused by my Jozi became a sire at 6 1/2 with a maiden girlie who was a bit of a strumpet, so it does work out at times, and timing is usually the issue.
- By Jessiejanet [gb] Date 08.11.07 21:00 UTC
Has your little girl shown any signs that she is ready for mating, ie is she flagging her tail, has her vulva swollen, has the blood flow turned to a paler almost straw coloured discharge or completely stopped? Is she flirting with the dog?

I have used the blood testing method once before and that when I was doing an AI, my girl had several blood tests from day 5 through to day 19 before the progesteron(?) levels were sufficiently high to record that she was ovulating and I would need to get her to the surgery for the implantation. The first test is done to establish the 'base'levels and the next were done to measure the rising levels in comparison. Sadly this was a very expensive exercise and she didn't take.

Normally I have used the old fashioned method, stroking hand down inner thigh and watching the girls reaction. My last mating was to a dog that was over 200 miles away, so I needed to be sure that my girl was ready. This time my vet did an ovulation swab test. He confirmed that she was about to ovulate and I would have about 24-48 hours for a first mating.  36 hours later I set off and just short of the 48 hour mark, my girl was mated and we had 5 puppies (4 days early).

To answer your question about how long are you likely to wait before she is ready, it really depends on your girl, it could be now it could be tomorrow, Friday, or even after the weekend. Each dog is different. If you want a litter then you need to be patient.
Fingers crossed that you have the news you are wanting to hear very soon.
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 08.11.07 21:24 UTC
Thanks so much for your reply.
No she really isn't showing signs of being ready for mating and is still bleeding. I only rushed her to the stud dog on the advice of the vet! He seemed sure she ought to be mated the next day but she is obviously not ready yet. I am so hoping she becomes ready soon because it is awful being parted from her and she is really attached to me so naturally I am concerned for her. It would be a real shame not to give this mating a good chance but I don't know how patient I can be, I miss my dog!!
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 09.11.07 13:32 UTC
Now I am even more confused! I phoned the vet again to ask about the test result, he says they get a colour change which in her case showed she had to be mated within 1-3 days. So maybe this means that she had already ovulated rather than about to ovulate?  Also I thought that progesterone levels remain high for a considerable time following ovulation in which case could she actually be beyond the right time?  It is confusing because I only have one blood result to go on. The vet is positive that she must be mated today and if she is not willing it is not because she isn't ready.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 09.11.07 18:57 UTC
With only one blood test of the colour change kind the Vet cannot be certain when she ovulated.  It sounds like it was a positive result so she may already have been over, you won't be able to tell because as you said the levels stay elevated for a considerable time after ovulation.

The colour kits give you a negative colour and a positive colour and colours in between mean nearly, but nearly can be that way for days.

So if he had a nearly result and is guessing that she will ovulate in a Day to three then you have time.  If it was a positive that ovulation had already occurred, it would mean you might already be too late or have up two 3 or 4 days????
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 09.11.07 19:42 UTC
Well despite what my vet says today there is absolutely no way she is ready to be mated. According to the stud dog owner she is not enlarged enough to allow him to do anything. Another experienced stud dog was brought round today to gauge his reaction but he was not at all interested in her.  So the stud dog owner took my girl to her vet, they did a swab and she is definitely not ovulating yet.  They also don't think she has gone over, and she is still bleeding, so my vet must not be correct? He was sure if she was not mated by tomorrow it would be too late but it must have been a nearly result. Looks like I have to give this more time in the hope that my bitch will be ready soon, at the moment she is growling at the stud dog.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 09.11.07 19:54 UTC Edited 09.11.07 19:56 UTC
When you get nearly results you should have repeat blood tests daily until you get teh ovualted result, otherwise it is a bit pointless taking any. 

The tests are usually pretty good, just the people can be wrong, and not folow the correct procedure or interpret the results correctly.

That is why most people don't bother,a s with an expereinced stud do you should get there in the end, and these tests are most useful with atypical bitches who either ovualte very early or very late, or are dominant/frigid and won't show any willingness to mate.  Except with AI mating roughly during the fertile period will yield results.
- By Honeybee [gb] Date 09.11.07 20:50 UTC
I am annoyed because I don't think my vet knows how to interpret the results properly, he did not even know which hormone is being tested for! He also could not tell me whether the result indicated that she had already ovulated or was about to, as you say Brainless it is a bit pointless if she has not had the ovulated result yet. I think his interpretation of the result was pretty vague and makes the test a waste of time and money.  
- By Brainless [gb] Date 09.11.07 22:10 UTC Edited 09.11.07 22:17 UTC
I have to admit I read up on how the test works before I had Jozi tested as I had heard so often of Vets making a right bails up of it, not may of them are really up on the intricacies of canine reproduction. 

I think some probably know how to do cesareans, and know the gestation length, many can't even confirm pregnancy.

No one expects them to be reproduction specialisits, but if they don't know they should admit it and find out.

This link explains the test results quite well:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sunsong/sda/premate.htm
- By kayc [gb] Date 09.11.07 20:29 UTC
I wouldnt worry too much, it sounds like your girl is on a similar wavelength to one of my girls... Summer never stands regardless of ovulation.. the only way I know is by bloods and my own boys... I have taken her to a stud 4 times on the strength of consecutive daily testing.. and nothing.... last year I let one of my boys tell me when she was ready.. He told me.. went to vets for test.. test STILL said not yet.. but.. my boy said yes, yes, yes, so I took his word, and went to the stud... she would not look at him.. we only got a slip and that was only by holding on for dear life.. 10seconds ... but.. my boy was right.. I got a litter of 3 pups... so.. although she didnt want to know.. (like your girl, quite pampered) the boys will ;)

at the other end of the spectrum, I have a girl who stands from day 2.. but has ovulated and produced a litter from a day 22mating.... try and be patient... it sounds as though your stud owner has enough knowledge and will be doing whats best for both you and your girl...

good luck
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Not ready yet?

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