Hi does anyone know of any lines of German Shepherd carring the cleft palate gene, or has my friend just been unlucky:

As I understand it Clefts can be caused by trauma in pregnancy at the stage when these areas are developing and also nutritional imbalances.  Folic acid deficiency being important cause.  It may just be bad luck, but it is worth researching the dam and sires lines to see if this has been produced before, as in some breeds there does appear to be a higher incidence than pure chance would dictate..

Thanks she has spoken to her vet and he has said it is unusal in GSDs. We were just wondering if there are some lines out there that carry it and breeders are not being that honest with her.

I've had GSDs since 1958 & know a good many breeders & none has ever had a cleft palate that I know of & most if not all of them are very up front about health problems & do all the required health tests. Obviously I don't know how the bitch is bred so cannot comment of whether their are any lines in her pedigree that go back to a know producer of cleft palates.

How could you find out such details?  Would the breeders be totally honest with you and if you go back a generation or two, you could be talking about many different lines.  This would be very hard to do if even one parent/grand-parent etc was bred as just a one-off and not 'recognised' within the breed.  Is there any way of finding out about any other possible inherited problems?

It is just a long shot as you say would breeders be honest. The vet did say it could just be the wrong dog with the wrong bitch and neither would probuce a cleft if bred with different dogs. Its just so upsettting and worring to bred again. One thing I did find out to let everyone know if they are breeding excessive amounts of Vitamin A and to much liver can be a cause. Worring.

Excessive amounts of Vitamin A (high levels of Vitamin A in liver) can potentially cause deformities in human babies too, which is why liver is best avoided during pregnancy. I guess it follows it would be the same for dogs, or any animal, I guess.

im a bit confused....are you saying that the gsd in question has produced CP in a litter, or that it actually HAS a CP itself??

the bitch gave birth to a pup with a cleft palate

Here is a list of causes of cleft palate.

It is not always the case and may not be in this case but it is and can be carried in lines BUT you have to weigh up to pros and cons on lines. Don't run away from one problem straight into another.

I am not saying turn a blind eye but breeders have to be rational and think it all through. Some breeders believe it to be polygenetic , where a bitch will produce to one dog but not to another , her being a % of the contributor.  ( not the same as recessive)

well i wouldnt worry. its unfortunate but it happens.

Thanks everyone it would be such a shame not to breed either dog again as they  both have lovely temperment good hip scores and seem healthy in every other way. Maybe just not with each other, the stud dog is due another litter so that might tell us something.

Hi
I had a litter of puppies and the runt had a cleft palate, she was very small and still born, even if she had survived the vets would have pts because a pup with cleft palate cannot suckle from the mother, it cannot suck due to the hole. Therefore would have died slowly from starvation, this means that a dog that has cleft palate doesnt live to produce puppies so it cannot be passed on if you understand. Not sure wether this is the same in your situation, but generally it is. It isnt totally uncommon so i wouldnt worry about is aslong as the other pups are healthy and happy, you shouldnt have any second thoughts about breeding this pair again. Hope this helps Louise.

In Response to LouiseDDB
Hi
I had a litter of puppies and the runt had a cleft palate, she was very small and still born, even if she had survived the vets would have pts because a pup with cleft palate cannot suckle from the mother, it cannot suck due to the hole. Therefore would have died slowly from starvation, this means that a dog that has cleft palate doesnt live to produce puppies so it cannot be passed on if you understand

dont want to start an arguement and i also know that this is an old post but the other puppies in this litter will carry a gene for cleft palates so so this condition can be passed on and i would NOT breed from the same dogs again

although im not sure if its the same in the gsd its deffinately is in the sbt

There are many causes of Cleft Palate and they are largely unknown, from nutrional, trauma in utero and probably soem genetic basis in some cases.  So unless both parents ahd previously produced thsi problem removign all the relatives from the breeding program would be foolish, but care in future litters shodulb e taken to ensure it is not familial.

i just have to reply to this topic of cleft palate.. my daughter was born with a cleft lip and!! palate i was given a special bottle to feed her with.. it had a sort of ridge spoon like end i would press the milk onto to it and she would lap it up like a puppy would lap milk..so therefor would a puppy not be able to be fed with somthing like that? my daughter was 4 weeks early so she was tiny but still got along great with it tho by the time we had finished the next feed was due.. all i can say is if i had a puppy who was born with this it would break my heart!! to have it put to sleep.. :(

Unfortunately it's been found that a cleft palate in a puppy is a symptom of more serious internal problems, which would leave the pup - if it survived - with problems permanently affecting its quality of life. It's kinder not to put them through these difficulties.

Children are a different matter. I hope your daughter is now strong and well. :-)

ahh she is shes now 21..but as im sure you'd appriciate when ever i see read anything about the subject i have to comment..as i remember the doctor saying when she was born "its just like a puppy lapping up milk" when she was showing me how to use the bottle i just thought it would work for a pup too..but i realise the two arnt the same.. but as my bitch is on day 54 it had crossed my mind my god what would i do if one of the pups where born with it like  i said before it would break my heat to have it put to sleep but i now realise there would be nothing i could do..just pray it never happens! :(

The difference is that a puppy isn't able to learn to lap until it's about three weeks old. Trying to get milk into a cleft-palated newborn puppy involves tube feeding with the associated risk of getting the tube into the lungs each time. The risk of pneumonia is very high.

I think the degree of cleft has to be considered - Pipsqueak had a tiny "cleft" more a pinprick.  He bottle fed beautifully, and by the itme he was 6 weeks old the cleft had closed up completley.  The fact he refused to move onto solids was more to do with being spoiled rotten than the earlier prlblem!  One of the vet nurses at the preactice I sue had a pup wiht a cleft palate a few weeks after my litter, and seeing how well Pipsqueak was doing decided to give it a go rearing him - he is gorgeous, but did require surgery to fix his cleft when he was old enough, it was succesful.  These pups are now 5 & 6 months old, and very healthy - Pipsqueak is now much bigger than his sister, and a very handsom boy, the only problem I have discovered is that he only has one testicle.

We had a pup 3 years ago born with CP, not a really bad one, bad enough for him to not be able to feed from mum - we couldn't see it and neither could 3 vets, it wasn't diagnosed until he was 6 weeks old, but I bottle fed him he's now a strapping 3 year old without any other problems.  He did have the CP repaired at Langford when he was 18 months old, which was totally successful.

to the last two posts!! you dont know how happy you both have just made me!!..my daughter is a stunning!!!!!!!! young woman even when i had her it really didnt bother me one bit..but people can be nasty..but if people stare at her she just stares right back they soon look away!..sorry back to pups! it just makes me so happy that atleast some get repaired and go on to live a long happy! life..:) :)