I've finally got my girl in whelp, and having read the various posts about worming or not during pregnancy, and listening to my breeder friends and my vet, I've decided to go for it and do the worming. My question is - the book of the bitch says from 42 days, and the vet says from 40 days. Does the 2 days make any real difference? The vet also said I could worm the puppies when born, but breeders and book of the bitch say not until 2 weeks, so I think I'll go with their advice on that one!

Ooh, one more thing - the vet said 'at least 2 puppies', my breeding friends say you can usually double that, and she started the clear discharge on day 31 rather than day 35 as BOTB says, and one person said that can be a sign of a big litter, what do people think? :-)

I have just breed my first litter, so not the most experienced here by a million miles, but have just done it all, so fresh in my mind.

Worming with pancur should be from day 40 to 2 days post whelping. If you decide to worm the puppies with Panacur, it is at two weeks and 5 weeks. You won't need ot worm the puppies when born, as the wormer will come through in the bitches milk. I was going to do this, as I have almost a whole bottle left, which cost £26. However, the stud dog owner has told me today she has heard of a lot of problems after worming pups with panacur, and herself ended up with a sick pup on a drip after using it, so would never useit again. I guess people have problems with everything, but I am going to use Drontal puppy to worm my pups, which needs to be done at 2 weeks, then every two weeks after that until 3 months. It also is only one single dose, so not so much messing around.

Did your vet say 'at least two puppies' after a scan or palpation? Some people find scans accurate, some don't. I think it is less likely they are wrong with a small litter, but my friend had a bitch scanned, was told she wasn't in whelp, then a week later she had 15 puppies! My own vet said it was hard to be accurate when scanning. I asked her to estimate the number of pups though, saying I wouldn't hold her to it. She said 7 or 8, but it could equally be 6 or 10. She had 9. She did start having clear discharge quite early, from about day 26, I seem to remember.

It was after palpation. She's a big stocky bitch for her breed, so I'm hoping for some lurking up high under the ribcage - I don't want any record breaking litters, but more than 2 would be nice!

Why not have a scan? You might get a better idea.

Same as above do my bitches with panacur from day 40 to 2 days post whelp then pups with drontal at 2,4,6 and 8 weeks. Has worked for us in the past. Wouldn't use panacur on the pups as we had a dreadfully sick litter a couple of days after worming them with it, now stick to drontal and touch wood have had no problems with this regime.

Floradora, that is interesting about the Panacur, as we have the same breed and the stud dog owner has said she felt the breed were especially suscpetible to problems with it. Of course, it may just be that she has heard of more cases with our breed, as that is the only breed she is involved in. It was enough to put me off though.

Have pm'd you.

As some of you already know we had great problems after worming one of our litters with Panacur this year, actually only one of them survived :rolleyes:  But she is beautiful and I've entered her for LKA, must be mad :d

I wouldn't touch Panacur if it was the only wormer on the planet!!  I've had a poorly mum twice when using it during pregnancy and 3 times pups have had to admitted to the vet hospital after having awful upset tummies where they ended up dehydrated.  We now use Drontal and haven't had any problems with it so far.  I worm mum two weeks before mating, then not again until the pups are 2 weeks old, then both mum and litter are done at the same time.

To show the other side I have had absolutely no problems when worming pregnant bitch, five generations of them now.

The only time I had problems with the pups is when I did as the notes suggest worm three times to 8 weeks.  Having returned to doing it only twice before leaving for new homes, as instructed previously by the Vet for my first litters had no problems at all, other than a slight drop off in appetite by the second or third day, with a little looseness with some pups.

The time I had the problem a Friend who also use the 3 times protocol ended up with  pup on a drip at the Vets at 3 weeks old.

I do know of some breeders who have had problems with the Drontal puppy wormer affecting the pups.  These are strong chemicals we are dealing with.  Then again a heavy worm burden (which I have seen in a rescue litter of 6 week old GSD's) can make them very ill or kill them.  Thee poor mites were so infested they had no appetite and were anaemic.  When wormed it made them quite ill as the volume of dying worms was toxic, they were very poorly, and their rescuer went through lots of Bio yogurt getting their digestive systems sorted, with one needing IV fluid therapy, and the rest were on electrolytes.

With modern wormers yu shouldn't even see whole worms, but these poor babes had them being poped out sicked up etc, it was awful.

Have to agree Brainless.

I don't follow the instructions exactly now, I worm at  approx 4 1/2weeks now (at start of weaning) and then before they go. I think the 3 times was a bit much. 

I can honestly say I have never had one bit of bother with Panacur.   Not 5 generations but 3 :-)

I do mine at 3 to 3 1/2 weeks once they ahve been on solids a few days and digesting these well.  I then do them at 7 weeks so that any upset is over with before they go to new homes.

I then do my own, or any remaining pups at 11 or 12 weeks depending on when they were vaccinated, as I like to give a week before worming after vaccinations and suggest the new owners worm at 12 weeks, then monthly to 6 months.

Just the same really as myself. I don't wean till 4 weeks so 3 days after solids they get wormed and then at 7 weeks give or take 2 days. :-)

I use Panacur liquid on pregnant bitches, and for all the scare stories I've heard, I'm still using it, as I've never had a problem with it.  Breeding such a tiny breed, I don't want pups born with a huge worm burden to contend with.  I too have seen people lose whole litters because pups were besieged by worms.  And I have always thought that excessive squits after worming of pups, is primarily due to heavy worm burdens.  When you think that a bitches hormones are going to have her full of worms, I like the fact that Panacur kills 98% before they even whelp.

Panacur fan to, never had any problems with it. I use it on my dogs and now the cat for general worming all the time.  Pregnant bitches and new pups. I have heard scare stories about both Panacur and other makes but it is the one I like and the one my vets use.

Wendy

When I was researching on this forum I came across people who'd had trouble with both Panacur and Drontal, so perhaps it's just bad luck, and perhaps the puppies would have had tummy upsets anyway and you can't be sure the wormer was to blame. Anyway I'll use the Panacur for my girl, and I've taken on board the comments about only doing the puppies twice rather than 3 times - if you're doing 3 days running each time, I would think twice should be enough!

BTW, I did consider having a scan done, but the main thing is that the vet says she is in whelp, I'm going to have the check up and oxytocin when she seems to be finished so there shouldn't be the problem of any retained puppies or afterbirths. Also although it's only £50 or so, I've already spent well over £200 on the antibiotics and swabs, so though I can afford it ok, I'm going to save the money in case I need more vet visits!! Also just ordered a load of vet bed and a microwave heat pad! She's now 5 weeks gone and still doesn't look or act any different. :-)