Hi there,

I am new to champdogs, all the information on here is excellent
I have bred Labs for many years with no problems whatsoever. Early last year I bred two pug bitches, you can imagine my surprise as to how different the whole process is, firstly the gestation time is shorter than normal (about a week) secondly they can't seem to 'break' the sack in which the pups arrive. I had been monitoring and observing the girls, kept records of any changes with dates and times, however I was so surprised to hear the fist due girl, panting at around 5am (in a room close to my bedroom) she had given birth to her first pup, he was cold and dead, the following pups arrived, one with difficulty as he was very big, this one I dried and rubbed until he finally  started to breath, the two others also had problems 'getting going' the final pup was born 24 hours later at the vets when the bitch started to have contractions again and after an oxytocin jab.

I took the second bitch to the vets for a scan to see how many pups she had so as to be sure to know how many were in the litter, she had an easier time, but also needed a jab to help her along, once again the pups had huge problems 'getting going'

I would appreciate any advice that would help when I next breed them which would make the birthing less stressful for the the mums pups

Cheers
Billy

Hi Billy,
As you know pugs are a brachycephalic breed, and all these breeds have more difficulty in whelping than the meso- and dolichocephalic types. Not only are the whelps' heads less 'streamlined' at birth, the bitch finds opening the sacs difficult.

In future I would be sleeping in the whelping room with the bitch for a few days before her due date (even accounting for their shorter gestation period) - before the first signs of stage 1 labour - so that whelping couldn't start without my being aware of it. A vet's visit within 24 hours of birth (I get the vet to come to the house) is essential to make sure whelping is complete.

Other than that there's not much else you can do with a difficult breed like the pug.

Hi Jeangenie

The 'whelping room' is through an archway from my bedroom. about three yards away, there is no door, I couldn't be closer really, I wasn't aware of the fact that pugs have short gestations and wasn't expecting them to arrive so early, something else I should have found out, I feel so stupid about this, I have bred labs and competition horses till a few years ago and always have my facts right, in my research before breeding my little pugs, no one made me aware of this

Short nosed breeds with overshot mouths will not be able to nip cords and membranes the way nature designed them to.

Also being a toy breed with a big head and relatively large pups compared to adult size will also make birth more difficult.  Human birth is much harder than most animal births because of the large head.

To be honest you should have been mentored by an experienced Pug breeders before you ever thought of breeding as all breeds are different.  Pups develop at very different rates vary in their need for heat past the first days,a nd Maternal behaviour can vary wildly.  some breeds are notoriously haphazard mothers, and I had heard that this was true of Pugs.

I don't know what health issues pugs have, and assume you have tested and/or researched the lines to avoid these.  Just as important is to research the female lines for whelping difficulties like Inertia etc.  Also mothering ability as all these are inherited.

I suggest getting as much literature from the breed clubs as possible.  I found when I was researching my breed that buying past issues of club publications for 10 or 20 years was very helpful.  You can see emerging trends within the breed physically and there will be articles about breeding and whelping and issues surrounding all aspects of a breed.

These tendencies for C sections, poor labours etc all started somewhere, and sometimes you can trace where these negative traits are most prevalent.

Ask next time you choose a stud what sort of whelping his dam and sisters have had, as well as find out how the other female relatives of your bitches have faired.

A lady who has been in my breed for years now has Pugs and bred her first litter last year.  Knowledge from our breeders would have been of little use to her (they are an natural breed who usually whelp and rear sturdy pups easily), so she had to start her education from scratch before she bred, and this paid dividends.

So it is back to the experts (breed clubs) as here people can only advise in general terms, and you are beyond the basics having been a breeder for sometime.

>Short nosed breeds with overshot mouths

Sorry to be picky, but the short-nosed breeds are undershot, not overshot. ;)

Duh of course their undershot, senior moment.

Thanks so much for your replies, your advice is very welcome. I did a lot of research from the breeders of my dogs before I bred, the mother had an easy birth, to be honest, I didn't think about the dad though
I am aware that pugs can have difficult births and that is why I didn't rush into breeding them.

I live in France and don't know anyone who has bred pugs or even owns them. My vet is excellent and monitored them very carefully, he said he would always prefer a natural birth to a C section and to be honest, after they had an oxytocin jab, the pups were born fairly fast, the biggest problem I had was 'getting them going once they were born, both girls are super mums and looked after their pups really well, they are very healthy and are regularly checked by my vet.

I have contacted some breeders via email, but they seem a bit reluctant to give advice, the person who bred them has recently moved without leaving a forwarding address

I suggest joining the British breed clubs (assuming that English is your first language?) and getting the back issues of publications.

Breed Clubs and Societies

NORTHERN PUG DOG CLUB. Sec. Mr P Davis. Tel No: 01427 728464
PUG DOG CLUB. Sec. Mrs A Nicholson. Tel No: 020 7352 2436
SCOTTISH PUG DOG CLUB. Sec. Mr S Payne. Tel No: 01560 322119
WALES & WEST OF ENGLAND PUG DOG CLUB. Sec. Mr J Phillips. Tel No: please contact the Kennel Club for details.

You may find Pug breeders somewhat diffident with new people wanting to get into breeding, as sadly there is a fashion for the breed at the moment so there are people looking only to exploit the breed, so the breeds custodians are naturally wary.

You really need to have some mentors in the breed.

Problem is that when you are immersed in a particular bred the quirks for you are the norm, and you may not think to point them out as you may even be unaware that other breeds differ.

I don't know if being a Short nosed breed has anything to do with pups being slow to get going, they are just so different from my natural breed who do things a lot quicker than it says in the books.

My pups are up on their feet toileting, barking and wanting more space to be clean away from their nests very quickly.

By 4 weeks they need to be able to have space to run about and need to go outside as a puppy pen is too restrictive.

In other breeds even large ones the pups seem much more immature, an some of the toy breeds aren't what I would call robust as pups.  Losses at several week seem common where as I would expect in my breed that any pup living past the first few days and certainly to two weeks to survive.

There is a member here called Gwen who breeds Pugs, she doesn't post often but might be worth sending her a PM.

This article on the Kennel Club website may be useful:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1615/hspug.pdf

Hello Brainless

Thanks loads for this info, I have lived so long in France, that I do sometimes have problems getting 'the gist' of things

I shall contact the Pug Dog Club and let you know how I get on

My first posting on this site was taken off by a moderator, it was borderline acceptable, it was then put back on by Admin, in the mean time I did contact Gwen directly via email but as yet not had any reply

many thanks
Billy

Yes the terms of Service of the forums require that people are not perceived as promoting themselves or advertising puppies for sale. 

So posts on breeding have to be general, and if specific then not e seen as advertising.  This means that sometimes posts have to be removed and edited or removed completely.

In your case the breed is central to your questions, so that is why I assume the post has been allowed, but it is a narrow line.

Of course you can have a Kennel listing on the main site, and for a fee list litters for sale etc. 

Hi everyone,
I just popped inot the site today, after having been "away" for ages, due to house move, and found this thread.  Billy, if you want to PM me, I will check back soon and then send you me new email address.  Pugs are VERY DIFFERENT from LAbs to breed, and I will be more than happy to discuss the process with you.

bye
Gwen