Just wish to thank all previous contributors to this site which I have used on numerous occaisions and now find myself posting
My bitch (not maiden) missed at her last season after a single mating so we were naturally upset but knew there is always the next season.  We had premate tests done last time but went au-natural this time as the stud dog is fairly close (proven) and we had two ties, one on day 9 (earlier than planned but she was flagging for my other dogs and standing and then again on day 13 (dog was away showing inbetween) but she was even more accepting the second time and we had a good tie of around 15 mins.  Since then I have taken second mating as my day of mating as this appeared a more straightforward mating in so much as they needed little guidance from the stud dog owner or I!  She would have been on day 33 yesterday and I took her to have a scan and the vet confirmed negative.  This is a new vets for me following a recent house move and I am using this excuse to doubt his examination - wishful I know!  My worry is that my bitch only produced two puppies last time (nearly four years ago), she is 6 by the way with only one surviving after birth.  I am hoping that if she is prone to a small litter the vet may have missed.  He scanned her standing but did not shave her belly - is this ok?  Secondly I wondered if any of you had also see a scan take place.  My point is that the vet showed me  her bladder but could not find any other black spot areas, persumably puppies.  Would the uterus not show up empty in a bitch.  Also, having looked in the Book of the Bitch the uterus is clearly above the bladder so how can he scan beyond the bladder?  Silly questions perhaps but if some kind sole has any view on this then it may help me come to terms with accepting there are no puppies.  Perhaps she is only at around day 28 (5 day sperm survival), small litter not evident on scan  - - - heres hoping.  Since mating she has gone off her food she has had for years and is eating canned meat preferring to eat PM rather than AM.  She is sleeping all day, nipples are slightly enlarged and pointing but not red.  Very saggy underneath, vulva a little more enlarged than normal and is very affectionate, more so than normal.  I do hope this chap has it wrong and shall just have to wait and see.  Any feedback on negative scan errors much appreciated

My bitches are always scanned standing up and not shaved.  Been in your position and it is upsetting, waiting to get my girl scanned next week but not holding out much hope. She is eating the same and there are no changes at all, normally by now I see some change.  Oh well there is always next season

I have heard quite a few reports of negative scans proving wrong. Maybe try scanning at a different vets if she is showing signs of a pregnancy?

I have just bred my first litter, so not much to compare to, I'm afraid. She was scanned at around 33 days. The vet scanned her with a shaven tummy, laying on her back, but this may be as she likes to lay down and roll over. :rolleyes: She said she couldn't give a number of pups as it was so hard ot be accurate, but I asked her to estimate for me, saying I wouldn't hold her to it. :-) She said 7 or 8, and she had 9, so it was pretty accurate.

We did premates, on day 10, 11 and 12. We had a locum vet for two of them, and by the third, I was getting pretty fed up with her to be honest, so we decided to risk it and mated day 13 (12 minute tie) and day 15 (25 minute tie). She delivered on day 60 from her first mating.

Even though we were lucky this time, and I didn't really go by the premate test this time, I would still have the next time, maybe from day 11, and insist on every other day instead of every day. It must be gutting to miss, as it's so long to wait until you can try again. I'd hate it, and I do feel for you. I did think two matings, two days apart, was pretty standard though. Did you use the same stud dog each time, is the owner experienced?

Hi Jackson

Yes the owner of the stud dog is perhaps one of the top kennels in the country and are very experienced.  I used the same dog this time as last time and he has just had a litter by him which I saw when we went for the mating and I know he has produced a few litters so far.  Perhaps given my bitch only produced two last time has something to do with missing this time i.e. is she already at risk of missing due to number of eggs?  I shall just keep an eye on her and see how things go.  When she did catch a few years back she was scanned at day 35 and the vet said she could only see perhaps two and she had two and she had her belly shaved. This time no pups, no shave so perhaps it is accurate.  Yes it is gutting but atleast my bitch is well and is lapping up the extra attention, home comforts and having full run of the house, my other dogs live in the utility room so she is having a ball in comparison. This is my only bitch and is now 6 years old so expect we may not try again.  Just one thing, does having a premate test show they are fertile as I am sure I read in another post that as it indicates ovulation has taken place this means they are fertile?  I am aware I can go down a fertility test route but given  her age I may refrain.

We shall see what happens in the next few weeks as even when she had just two pups she was clearly pregnant through size and I hope to see the same once again.

If any others can offer any negative turned positive stories would love to hear!

Regards to all and good luck to all those more fortunate than I on this occaison

Hi,

Just to give you some hope, we had a bitch who was scanned by a very experienced scanner with a sheep scanner and no puppies could be seen on 2 occasions.  However, she ended up having 4 puppies!!! It does often depend on what breed you have, as with our giant breed, they often carry the puppies very high.  We also had an occasion when one of our bitches had 7 puppies normally and then appeared to have "finished".  However, we were not happy that this was the case and she was eventually x-rayed the next day and no puppies were seen.  That same evening, over 12 hours after last puppy was born, she delivered one dead puppy and she was very restless.  We felt that there were still puppies inside and she had a C-section, which resulted in a further 5 live puppies!!! So, you can see - scans and x-rays can still get it wrong!! 

Thanks Kazz and what a shock all those additional puppies were.  Mine is a mid size bread and usally whelp around 6 per litter, her teats are a little bigger today than yesterday, no significant mammary enlargement but they are pointing lots.  Shall just wait and see.  I have decided to take my eye off her for a week as you know how we are for reading into everything, then if I feel she looks different in a week or ten days I shall take her to my former vets, (changed due a house move) for another scan.  Interestingly my friend had her dog scanned last week, same breed as mine and the vet had a look and said no pups.  Owner was certain she was in whelp so the vet perservered and had a good look alot higher up in the bitch, there were six to be seen on the scan and this was at day 31.  I am hoping that she fertilised much after the mating and was perhaps only day 28, has a small litter who are tucked up in the ribs and will surprise me with a/some pups.  We bred to keep one as we did our last litter, show occaisionally but purely for pets and felt it was time for another youngster in our home, if we have no luck then I am down for one of the afore mentioned litter subject to a successful whelping. Just out of interest, what days were the two scans that gave you a negative?

Thanks Kazz

Hi,

The scans were days 35 and 42!!
Yes, I know exactly what it is like - checking the bitch constantly for any little sign that she may be in whelp!
As you have found, some vets are better than others at scanning. 
Best wishes,

Kazz

False negatives are not unknown especially if the Vet isn't good at scanning.

A friend just recently had a bitch that she had back for a litter (breeding terms) scanned negative so went back to her owners.  She seemed down nd they took her to the Vets who pronounced a phantom and gave her Galstop to dry up the milk.  (We have since learnt that this is also given to bitches to abort pregnancy). 

Some time later she was acting very strangely so they took her to a different Vet and she was in Labour, but needed a C section and had five pups, but of course no milk.

She too was not a maiden (had 3 pups) but had missed previous two seasons, the second Vet couldn't understand how the pregnancy could have been missed when she was given the Galastop.

The Vet didn't think she would get milk and the pups needed hand rearing with bitch taking care of them.  Luckily after just over a week her milk came in, though they did loose one pup in first week and another was slow getting going.

Hi My DDB bitch ellie r.i.p in 2005 had a false scan, it was around day 40 we took her as we were not 100% she was getting bigger but it was our first litter and were unsure what to expect. The head vet!!! felt her belly etc then did the scan, said no pups at all she is having a phantom. We were sceptical because of her size, but thought he is the ''professional'' so we will take his word for it. We still kept an eye on her though, sure enough 2 weeks later around 3.a.m she came into labour, not 1 or 2 puppies but 12!!!!!! How one earth could he have missed 12 puppies, the bordeaux isnt a small breed the pups are not exactly tiny. He has now retired think it was his time lol, but dont ignore your own judgement you know your bitch. Hope she is in pup Louise