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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Trauma During Pregnancy
- By Crespin Date 25.10.07 01:52 UTC Edited 25.10.07 08:17 UTC
My bitch was bred the end of last month, which would make her 3.5 weeks pregnant.
I decided to take my two females out for a walk.  My one that is (hopefully) still pregnant, got attacked by a dog.  She has a couple wounds, but is healing nicely.
When you palpate,you can still feel what feels like peas with knots in between them.
Please tell me, is there a chance she could still be pregnant, or am I just wishful thinking.
- By jackson [gb] Date 25.10.07 10:22 UTC
Personally, I wouldn't ever try and palpate a bitches tummy. The only way to know for sure is to have her scanned.

From what I can gather, 3 1/2 to 5 weeks is the 'danger time' where abnormalities are likely to have occured in pups, and trauma to the bitch increases this risk, according to 'Book Of The Bitch'.

I don't mean to worry you, the chances are, things will be fine, but it might be a good idea to take her to the vet anyway. My scan only cost £26 including consultation, and was well worth it. They can scan from 28 days onwards.
- By Tigger2 Date 25.10.07 11:44 UTC
Of course there is a chance she could still be in whelp, in fact she most likely is :) However there is also a small chance she won't be, this chance exsisted even before she was attacked, if you want to know for sure then a scan is the way to go - I really wouldn't be trying to feel the pups at this stage. My own bitch was attacked by two boxers when she was 6 weeks in whelp, being much bigger and stronger than she is they rolled her over and over on the ground before I could get to them. She was absolutely fine, fingers crossed yours is too :)
- By Crespin Date 25.10.07 12:53 UTC
Thank you so much, I have been so worried about my little girl. 
I am most thankful that she is alive.  What a horrific ordeal.  :mad:
She goes for a scan next Thursday.  We will know for sure then. 
- By JeanSW Date 25.10.07 21:47 UTC
I had a girl attacked 10 days after mating, and she needed a GA the wounds were pretty bad.  The vet told me that she would reabsorb if pregnant, and I accepted that, thinking there was always next time.  My girl was 7 weeks before she started to show, but she was pregnant alright!  Only had 2, but that's normal for my breed.
- By Crespin Date 26.10.07 12:18 UTC
oh I really hope she is pregnant, all the signs are saying she still is.  Your story gives me hope. 
To bad it had to happen to our dogs.  The care we put in, to make sure they are just in perfect health. The tests we do, to make sure there are no indications of genetic issues to be passed along.
Not to mention showing/specialing our dogs, to make sure they meet breed standards (because every dog is cute and pretty to the owner)
Then to have this happen, because of a person who cant control, nor do they wish to control, their dogs. 
It was a scary thing!

Update:  We called the local SPCA shelter (Ontario, Canada) and they have deemed the other dog dangerous.  Which means the owners have a lot of restrictions placed on them, and a short timeline to finish them.
1) They have to keep the dog leashed and muzzled if it is outside their house (that includes being leashed and muzzled in the garden)
2) Spay/Neuter the dog
3) Display a sign in clear view of the sidewalk, that states they own a dangerous dog, that has already attacked
4) Pay $250 dollars ($1 CAD = 3 pounds) each year to license the dog within the city.  And even if they move, the records follow them.

Sadly, if the SPCA also believes the dog is a Pit Bull, Staffie, or American Bull Terrier, it will be removed and euthanized.  Ontario is under Breed Specific Legislation (which I dont agree with) where the above mentioned dogs are not allowed to be owned in the province.  I dont agree with certain breeds being targeted, since I have known many dogs under the ban who have been so gentle and friendly.  But I do agree with the 4 restrictions placed on a dog that attacks another dog or person.  The stipulations are higher depending on injuries. 
- By Brainless [gb] Date 26.10.07 12:47 UTC
I think having to keep muzzled and on lead in your own garden is a bit much, though the garden must be dog proofed or dog allowed only in dog proof run, after all in such a case the dog isn't even free to toilet naturally.  Maybe the muzzling in your own garden might be OK.
- By Mud Mops [gb] Date 26.10.07 23:20 UTC
Canadian dollars $2 to the pound roughly so the fine is £125
- By Blue Date 27.10.07 00:53 UTC
Sorry mud mop never read your post.
- By Blue Date 27.10.07 00:52 UTC
4) Pay $250 dollars ($1 CAD = 3 pounds) each year to license the dog within the city.  And even if they move, the records follow them.



Hmm not in this country. The Candian dollar is roughly $2.2 to the pound not as above. /$250 dollars is approx £113..
- By Crespin Date 27.10.07 02:20 UTC
Sorry, I didnt realize the change was that much since I last checked, which I admit, was a long time ago (2000).  I was just trying to illustrate that it is a hefty fine.
All I know, is that $250 CAD is a lot of money, so the cost to register the dog each year is a good penalty.  And so far, we dont have to go to court over it, so it makes them realize that a dog attack isnt a good thing to allow your dog to do.

In regards to the muzzling, I have no control over that.  The SPCA is the one enforcing it, and it is just part of the rules when your dog is deemed dangerous.  My dog doesnt have to be muzzled, only the other dog who attacked mine.  That dog will never be, and has never been, in my yard. 

This dog, came at my dog, from its property onto the city sidewalk.  When I think of it, and how lucky my little pup is to be alive, I thank the Lord it wasnt a child - or anyone - for that matter.

I am just happy, that my girl is alive, and hopefully still pregnant.  I am also happy that the SPCA has done something about this dog, who has attacked mine, and with the rules in place, it can not (in theory) attack another dog, or person again.
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 27.10.07 11:46 UTC
As the owner of a bitch who suffered trauma at 5 weeks into a pregnancy I know only too well what this can do to pups which is not noticeable in the first few weeks of life:rolleyes:  Unfortunately my dogs trauma was a house break in, her scaling 7 foot to get on top of my garage away from the culprits and then her falling off the garage and being stuck between it and a fence for 2 hours until I got home :mad:
- By Crespin Date 01.11.07 02:25 UTC
Well Tomorrow she goes in for a scan, to see if there are any puppies.  I hope so, as we have waited a very long time for this breeding to happen (had to get CH, then health tests and all)

Keeping my fingers crossed!
- By GG1 [gb] Date 01.11.07 16:55 UTC
And we will keep everything crossed for you too!!:cool:
Let us all know what happens, and remember lots of people have had a negative scan and then lots of little feet a few weeks later!!
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 01.11.07 23:13 UTC
I'm hoping that for a certain person on here!!
- By Crespin Date 01.11.07 23:37 UTC
Negative scan, they said there was no puppies, but she looks and acts it.  I mean, with her falses before, she didnt have her skin change colour, she didnt act this way, so I am still not completely convinced.  I cried actually, cos there was a person who let their bitch get caught first heat, and has 6 pups out of it. 
This lady has no idea who the male was, and the female looks really sick.  But she got such a big litter, and the pups are healthy.
I am still going to save every penny, and if she doesnt have pups, that the scan was totally accurate, then it just gives me more funds for Christmas. 
They said the "suspicious spots" were stool, as she did need to go to the washroom.  (she didnt need to go when she went outside 20 minutes earlier - min pins and cold weather dont mix lol)

Again, hoping the scan was wrong, and I will watch her for any other changes.  I really hope this isnt a false.  ARG
- By Tigger2 Date 01.11.07 23:49 UTC
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that :(  There is a slight chance the scan was wrong, but imo this is only a very slight chance. The annoying thing is you'll never know if she was in whelp before and reabsorbed due to the attack or if she never caught - what a shame.
- By GG1 [gb] Date 02.11.07 18:39 UTC
Just to make absolutly sure you could try the blood test route?
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.11.07 22:17 UTC
The blood test is far less reliable than either palpation or scanning.
- By Crespin Date 02.11.07 22:21 UTC
The thing I dont get is this, she is acting to pregnant.  By that I mean, she is nesting excessively, which she doesnt normally do.  She has actually ripped two pillows just by digging at them.
She has had falses before, but her skin NEVER changed with them.  She also didnt go into this hyper-nesting behaviour. 
My vet says the scan is really accurate, but I dont really know.  As I have heard many people on this forum, and I believe there was one post about it in this one, where scans have shown a negative result, and then puppies come a few weeks later. 
I think I will watch her for the next few weeks, and if she does seem to go through the whole "Im pregnant" thing like the looking pregnant, and if this behaviour doesnt change to her normal self, then I may get her xrayed.  Then its her whole body, since she is a toy breed, and there would be very little chance of puppies hiding.
- By jackson [gb] Date 02.11.07 22:34 UTC
A friend of mine had a bitch scanned and was tol dshe was not pregnant, and to 'get her excerciesed, she's fat'. A week later she had 15 puppies. So maybe there is hope.
- By cocopop [gb] Date 02.11.07 22:49 UTC
Is it safe to x-ray a bitch in whelp?
They won't do it to women, not abdomen anyway.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.11.07 23:06 UTC
I haven't heard of anyone in the UK having X-rays for pregnancy confirmation, but the breeders I know in the USA have the bitches X-rayed at 6 weeks where the skulls and spines can be seen, very few have scans, it seems it isn't something offered.

I would not x-ray a pregnant bitch.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.11.07 23:03 UTC
My Vet will always advice a second scan a week later if a negative result.  My freinds whose bitches pregnancy was missed didn't bother with a second scan as the bitch had already missed or absorbed twice on the trot before.  She wrongly assumed the bitch had become/was infertile, though she did have just three pups two years earlier, which is a small litter for the breed.
- By Crespin Date 10.11.07 01:40 UTC
Contacted the owner of the male (who is also the breeder of this female) and we are going to send Cas back for a breeding next heat. 
In a way, I am glad she isnt pregnant, because if the pups did survive the attack, who knows what problems they would have had when born.

Now its the waiting game again, and watching Cas like a hawk (gotta love those silent heats!)  I am just a tad worried since she will be almost 5 years old, and this is here first litter.  (she has been bred 2 times before, one we were to late, and then this one) but after talking to the breeder, and others, some think she will be ok for such a late first litter.

Thank you for all your help and support.  Casie is doing wonderful, and is almost back to her normal self
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Trauma During Pregnancy

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