It's 35 days since my bitch stood for my male. This was unintentional from the point of view that I wanted to wait until her next season so that I would get spring puppies but not such a disaster as I have waited 20 years to fulfil my ambition of breeding an occasional litter. All my dogs are registered and have a good 5 generation pedigree behind them with many champions. The two dogs in question have great working/trialling lines and I have put a great deal of thought and time considering this course of action. Anyway, after a few attempts of mounting and thrusting and falling away I interupted the behaviour and separated them for the rest of her season. It is difficult to tell if he actually penetrated her. I would say not: he certainly did not effect a tie but I know that a penetration of only a few seconds can result in a pregnancy. (his father is not called 7 seconds Glen for nothing) My only experience of whelping has been on two occasions when I have taken pregnant bitches from rescue kennels at 7/8 weeks of pregnancy to let them give birth in comfort to help out the kennels. Anyway, a week ago my girl went off her food first thing in the morning and as she is the biggest gluten this side of Europe I have found this very strange. She has put on 2.4 kilos in the past 3 weeks! and this from a very dainty trim girl. Her rib area is thickening and her waist is disappearing. It is too late to have her palpated but can anyone who is experienced give an opinion about the weight gain? Is this the sort of weight gain that is normal at this stage if she were pregnant or could it be a phantom or or or?

Why dont you take the bitch and get her scanned if you are desperate to know. :-)

Completely confused about such a saying his father is not called 7 seconds Glen for nothing Never heard this analogy.

Hi, not really desparate to know as obviously time will tell other than worrying about giving her a little extra food perhaps in the evening as she is not eating much at all compared to her usual appetite. The saying 'seven seconds Glen' came from the breeder of my male. Glen is the sire of my male. He has sired many champ trialist and Glen apparently has NEVER tied with any of the dams and 'lasts 7 seconds'. My lad came from a litter of 13 and that is going some for a Border Collie. Maybe it is an inherited trait? thanks anyway.

I was always led to believe that a slip mating (no tie) would have to last about a minute of penetration to be sure the dog had ejaculated.  That quick and as a bitch owner I would be worried if there had been any mating at all.  Mind you in some livestock the mating is very brief, blink and you'd miss it, ut they still get a claf etc.

I'd be interested to know whose dog Glen is as I have had trialling bred BC's for over 30 years & never heard of one called this(the 7 second bit)My first trialling male(also called Glen BTW) I had was a good stud dog & was always fast to get mated, but he did always tie. Edited to add which of the national champions did he sire ?(there are only 5 ISDS champions each year of course)

I'm thinking(still only thinking at this stage)of allowing my bitch Jessie to have a litter sometime in the future, won't be ISDS registered as she's a mix of KC & ISDS breeding even though I'm an ISDS member. I won't finalise any plans though until she has all her DNA testing done, as well as the two year eye test & her hips x rayed of course.

Will you be ISDS registering them ? If yes you will have sent off the mating card of course

>I was always led to believe that a slip mating (no tie) would have to last about a minute of penetration to be sure the dog had ejaculated.  That quick and as a bitch owner I would be worried if there had been any mating at all.  Mind you in some livestock the mating is very brief, blink and you'd miss it, ut they still get a claf etc.

LOLOL off topic but that reminds me of story an old shepherd in our village told me about the Vicar's wife & her nanny goat. He had a billy goat & the Vicar's wife wanted her nanny to have kids so wanted to use his billy. When the nanny was ready(the shepherd had to check this for her ;-) )the nanny was brought to the billy & Pete took her into his barn & came out a minute or so later with the nanny. The vicar's wife said sadly"She isn't ready then ?""Oh she is & it's all sorted ;-)"came the reply"but you weren't in with the billy long enough, I've bred labradors & it takes ages":rolleyes::rolleyes: Pete tried to explain that dogs are different from dogs, but she went away shaking her head & not believing him. She got a surprise around 5 months later when her nanny presented her with twin nanny kids. She never bred goats again being too embarassed !:-D

I know that you say you are in no rush to find out, but with the weight gain and possible mating, I think for your bitches sake you should take her for a scan.

To gain weight in the last few weeks she could have a medical problem if not in whelp, you also need to know for change over to a good puppy dry food etc to give the pups the best in vitamins extra calcium etc, so it is important that you find out.

Many bitches don't even start to show until the last 2 weeks and then they just balloon so weight in itself is no indication.

You will also need to prepare your whelping area and whelping kit etc, etc, so please take her for a scan so that you are in preparation.

If she is not in whelp then gaining weight rapidly also needs addressing and to be off her food she may very well be unwell.  Let your vet check her out. :-)

Thanks for the reply: She is very definitely not unwell as she is her happy cheerful self, ready for action and any game or work on offer although I have noticed she is a bit quieter than normal and a bit snappy with my young pup who she is normally very tolerant of. She is VERY lovey dovey with the male in question. She has no discharge from her vulva nor is it particulary swollen but then she wasn't very swollen during her heat cycle. She just looks the same. She is definitely off her morning meal but will polish off her tea but it is taking her two goes instead of one. She is BARF fed with added vits, kelp, cod liver oil etc but I have stopped the cod liver oil just in case, as it is bad in pregnancy. I wouldn't feed  a pregnant bitch extra calcium as she is more likely to suffer from eclampsia. As this would be a critical phase if she is pregnant I don't want to expose her to the stress of ultrasound as she is not a happy bunny if she is fiddled with by strangers.

I don't want to expose her to the stress of ultrasound What stress there is more stress in annual vaccinations in my opinion. :-)

No disrespect to you , your post is the same as many here BUT I just don't get it so want to say :-)

Dogs are hardy things, a dog with a normal temperament that has been socialised dog shouldn't blink an eye. It is a myth that ultra sound causes miscarriage. They barely touch the dog. Being honest any dog that couldn't cope with the stess of an ultra sound in the nicest possible way should not be in whelp in my opinion. What happens when emergency treatment is required if she needs it if she doesn't like strangers touching her.  What happens when the first puppy is on it's way and it gets stuck and a vet has half his/her hand inside her?? The pups are delivered at the vets for whatever reason.. This is all normal situations that happen in whelping.

If you live within say 10 mins of your vet you can get there get a quick scan and be home within 30-40 mins. 

How does she cope with strangers on walks, to the house, does she take kindly to people coming up close and personal, can visitors happily stroke her?  Does she normally stress in these situations, or is she just scared of the vet? As Blue says, there are many times when they have pups they may well need a vet, and other times too. If the stress of having the vet touch her, and put a scan on her is likely to upset her so much she will lose the pups, i would be concerned about her nature to be a mum anyway. Birth hurts! That will stress her out too! And, after all she will need to be introduced to the potential new owners and she won't want to be stressing out then, or someone may get bitten.

Thanks for your opinion it is very much appreciated though I have to say it is a good job that we are all entitled to our opinions:rolleyes: There is a very good reason why she prefers to keep her distance from those she does not know well. Nothing to do with being badly socialised or not of sound temprement. She is a very loving dog with everyone she knows, she does not just rush and gush at strangers and that includes the vet. Baring in mind that ultrasound is based upon equipment no matter that the probe is small. Lots of dogs of sound temprements and well socialised are stressed by mechanical/electrical devices/hairdryers etc. It does not mean that she should not be allowed to whelp. I am just saying that I don't believe this to be the best option as I am quite prepared for nature to inform me in good time, it would just have been good to know if some of the symptoms and signs that she is showing could be indicative of pregnancy. With regard to problems during labour: I am sure that if a vet needed to be involved and shove his hand half in and half out, she would cope the way any human female would cope in that situation, she wouldn't give dam if the situation was critical. You could never be certain, given the scenario that you have suggested, how any bitch of any temprement would react even from one whelping to another. My vet is 45 minutes away unfortunately but he does have arrangements for 24 hour emergency service. And before we get into the discussion of annul vaccinations..........try having a look at www.canine-health-concerns.org.uk I am living with a dog damaged by his first puppy shots!!! I think this thread should be closed. All I wanted was some friendly advice given the signs and syptoms I described. Not an opinion upon whether my dog is fit to have puppies. regards and thanks to those that have been helpful.

Your " helpful" replies are based on the information you have provided. Perhaps they are not what you wanted to hear but the are based on the facts given.

There is a very good reason why she prefers to keep her distance from those she does not know well.  Maybe to help us understand you would like to expand. this may have help us answer the first post. :-)

When replying most posters take a broader view in their replies, they are consious that novices reading the threads get sound advice,  advice is given BASED on the information given in the original post.

I am sure that if a vet needed to be involved and shove his hand half in and half out, she would cope the way any human female would cope in that situation, she wouldn't give dam if the situation was critical.

This is one thing you really have wrong for sure your bitch will not cope in anyway at all similarly to a human being, the two are entirely different in whelping. Firstly a human ( except in exceptional circumstances) knows they are in labour and the reason for the pain whilst a maiden dogs generally doesn't have a clue hence the reason they are often so confused what is going on and why they are in pain.  A dog slightly unsound in anyway could have a terrible experience.   A dog often doesn't understand why a puppy has got stuck half way out for 15 mins and is darting about the place trying to get it out.  ( yes it happens)   

This is for the general reader not just yourself or related to your dog in particular BUT nervousness in dogs around people and strange situations in my opinion is the worst temperament to have in a whelping bitch. This unsureness in my experience goes hand in hand with fear aggression and they are the ones that are most common to lash out.

I know we have went a bit off topic  SORRY ADMIN but I believe whole heartedly that advice is fair based on the original post for all to read and learn from.  If it isn't what the original poster wanted well they don't have to take the advice. :-)