Oh dear, I'm not sure if my dogs are typical or just badly behaved.  I posted a few weeks ago about Jasper ignoring recall, and we have been working on that and it has improved :) 

BUT now Henry our 2 year old neutered rescue ran off on a walk yesterday, I didn't believe we would see him again :(  We were walking in the woods, and OH said he let them off there on the previous 2 days without any problem, so reluctantly I agreed and Jasper was playing and sniffing around and returning to us, but Henry just disappeared and no amount of calling him worked   So we eventually decided to take different paths, and OH went one way and me the other with Jasper.  I was in tears as I imagined all terrible things happening to him - the one saving grace was there were no roads nearby.  He'd been gone for over 10 minutes before he ran back to me with his head down - not sure if he thought he was going to be told off for running away, I was so relieved to see him!

Is this normal behaviour for dogs, and I'm worrying too much?  Do they need this much freedom?

Or is this not normal behaviour and should I just keep them both on their leads?

I'm not sure if I'm worrying too much or not, but at this rate my once normal blood pressure is sure to rise!

Help and adivice greatly appreciated please

Our dogs don't go off on their own at all! And I am worried if I can't see or hear them and I don't think it is a good idea to "lose" your dog like that. I have however put bells on them, so if we walk in the woods and they dive in and out of the undergrowth, I can still hear where they are!

Vera

It is a worry I know. When my dog was 2 he went through a stage of ignoring me completeley. If he suddenly saw a rabbit that was it. He became deaf to me and I had a few tearful outings with him. It was never for more than a few minutes and I always knew where he was but couldn't always see him - and I did worry that he'd get into problems. It didn't last long though, and now, if he sees a rabbit it has to be within trotting distance before he'll make the effort and once he knows he's lost it he comes straight back. I guess he grew up a bit !.
I did put him back on a long lead for a while at the time though for my own peace of mind. I notice now though, if he is a little way ahead of me he keeps turning around to check if I'm still there. I guess he worries if he can't see me as much as I did when I couldn't see him !.
Hopefully it's a phase that won't last long with your dog and try not to be cross with him when he does return (even if he didn't come back straight away when called). I did shout at my dog the first couple of times out of pure worry and upset but all it did was make him more worried to come back !. Make his return exciting so he knows that being with you is more fun than being out on his own !.
Val

We often loose our girls...Well Pepsi mostly for 5/6 mins on a walk as she just dawdles along and forgets were she is!!! but like you we walk in remote areas with a long way to the roads and so don't worry too much, and she catches up in  her own time, but to run off and do his own thing may be a little different, what is he doing? are there any other animals about? is he chasing something? maybe you need to have a better recall before he gets too used to being In charge of his own walks, Pepsi is just a slowcoach and she knows the routs of our walks well and just plods on and we wait for her when she has been a long time, sometimes she gets lost in the woods and it's just a matter of calling her and whistling so she can find us. But she is not "Running off" so it's a little different. Merlot has her "Bunnie" spots and will dash off in front to get there to see if she can surprise her target! but on the whole they all stay pretty close for most of the walk with just the odd few moments when I loose sight of them, and they get loads of free running and exercise, they don't need to run off and do their own thing as it could be very dangerous to stock and dogs alike to be out of sight and you not to know what he is doing. I would be wary and try to keep him closer to you, a long lead may be an option untill you are sure he will stay "Close" all my girls know and understand the word Close it means don't go to far!, but you can still go off sniffing and snuffling but within sight!!

He was definitely running after something he could smell or see - it is a very remote area and no other dogs around yesterday so I can only imagine it was squirrels or rabbits :rolleyes:

He hasn't done that before he has always stayed close to us, we adopted him in June but maybe he is getting more confident now to leave us and do his own thing (maybe the reason he was a rescue in the first place? - little monkey).

We were also discussing that we have males and maybe females are not quite so desperate to 'go hunting' ?

More training and no letting off leads for a while I think then!

Also a good idea about putting bells on their collars - I'll try that!

  

... and a good idea to change direction and hide from your dogs sometimes so you and the walk are not predictable.
Dogs often run off because they feel it's safe to do so ...and they will have no problem finding you afterwards.

The bell idea is a great one and I might give it a go. I think if your out in the wilds though, the dogs will naturally return to their instincts of hunting, more so of course in the hunting breeds. Mine are loath to be out of sight of me as I don't call at all, if they are lost, hard luck, see you back at the car. You see, it's me that runs off and hides and it's they, have to find me.

What a worry! norty boys. Mine is quite happy to tootle at a distance but he never just takes off. One thing is does though is listen to where I am. If I think he's being a bit too independant for my liking I stop moving on the other side of a tree or bush. When he can't hear me he comes running to find out where I am.

Bells on my dog's collar would freak him out so I have to keep my ears tuned to the pitter patter of his big galumphing feet. :-D

Definitely more training - some dogs learn what fun it is to run off and chase things (and that they can ignore their owners because they can't be physically stopped off-lead) and get worse.  I don't think gender makes any difference - Opi is the only one of mine who's caught adn killed anything, she's an avid hunter.  And Soli tries to be.

Soli's a classic for the running off - she's a very independant dog, and if I'm not careful in the woods, she'll run a long way through the undergrowth to chase things and follow trails.  At top speed!  She has to be on a flexi in the woods in certain areas (and goes on before we reach them, as she runs off early).

Confidence does have an effect I think - when Opi was growing up she wouldn't go out of my sight for more than a few seconds, she always had to know where I was and would panic if she lost me for any length of time.  Then I took her and Remy to a new, rabbit-filled park - and for some reason she gained a lot of confidence there.  Since then she's been much more independant and is quite happy to diappear into the undergrowth in the woods after things - she doesn't go far though, unlike Sol.  And Opi will come back if I sound annoyed enough - Soli will just ignore me whatever I do.

I would just add to the above that if it does happen again, don't keep calling him - it will only serve to reassure him that you are there waiting when he is ready to come back.  Call him once and walk on slowly, slowly if you possibly can, giving him every chance to lose his nerve and come back to find you.  Call him when he is running back to you anyway, soften your body language and be really pleased so that he learns that coming back to you is always the right thing to do.

Oh, Maria, I have been there and done all of that!  :-)

Edited to add: Lindsay's post not there when I started!

Agree with what a lot of the others have said. I have actually timed my dogs -if I turn in the opposite direction without saying anything, or hide, it takes ten seconds max before they are with me again without a word being said. They just don't want to leave me, I have to be in sight at all times. They run off at speed but come back equally speedy within seconds, to check I'm still there. I very rarely call them, so they know that once I do, it REALLY means I want them with me at great speed and instantly. But I spend a lot of time between the ages of 8 and 12 weeks running away from them and hiding etc so they learn they need to keep their eyes on me or I may disappear as I am so unpredictable, and I keep this up throughout their lives.

Edited to say: Now MIL's rescued Labrador, that would be another story. She's obviously not had the early training. If she sees a rabbit, she'll be off -so it's a question of having eyes like a hawk and getting her to me BEFORE she has a chance (or decides) to take off.

Moose has only ever done this once and was when she was out with Mike. She decided to chase a couple of ducks down the brook for a mile :rolleyes::rolleyes: Mike tracked her and finally found on her way back . She got a right royal rollicking from me when she got home and has never done it again :D They both wander but never out of my sight unless in fields with rape where I can't see them but can hear them :D

Not just a dog thing unfortunately. I have a bitch who I have to constantly keep an eye on her head carriage. As soon as it goes up I have to check the surrounding area and get ready to make a quick grab. If she sees a cat, squirrel or even a pigeon she is apt to do a runner. She is now 10 years old!!!!

I have a 9 year old bitch that does a runner :( I also have a 3 year old bitch that will do a runner just before coming in to season ;) My 5 year old male, on the other hand, likes to keep me in sight most of the time. I've spent a lot more time with my newest addition and at 4 months will come back immediately I blow the whistle. Wonder how long that will last?

They love to wind you up!! Mine often disappeared when they were young, luckily at 5 1/2 they are finally growing up, though George ignores me if he's found something to scavenge. Longest I've ever been right out of sight of them is 10 minutes and I was frantic!! Usually I can see them in the distance ignoring me. :-)

I guess it greatly depends on breed, most of my family and I have gundogs and yes, they are easily excited by picking up scents of rabbits, squirrels, birds etc and are often nose to ground sprinting around forests and fields, but even from young pups they have never run off, they should not run off, and should always return on recall and keep their owners in sight for direction changes, adolescents are the worst at going deaf, which is why training needs to be kept on top of constantly.

With Henry being a rescue and obviously not being trained by yourself from a pup, I guess we can cut him some slack.  You must keep up recall training every single day, you are more important than a scent or chase and your dog needs to know this.

If he were to run off again, I would pop him on a long line training lead for the rest of the walk, be very watchful if his nose is to the ground keep an eye on him and the minute he begins to look totally distracted call him to you, never crossly but you need to catch his attention before he is out of sight from you, just keep on top of him, recall him all the time throughout your walks, for a stroke, pat, or a treat. :-)

I'm quite cruel to my dog but it works.  If she doesn't come back to me after 2 shouts in the woods I say nowt and hide behind a tree - cue one frantic dog. lol.  She usually finds me as I can't stop giggling at her puzzled looks coz mum was here a minute ago. lol.

I know that can work, I've done it with other dogs and, if you're dog is already gone, I advise not calling more than once as posted above.

However, one of the dogs I have now (from rescue) would carry on with what he was doing, explore happily by himself, visit a few houses, perhaps come back after 10 minutes, an hour or move in with someone else.  I've not even had a rescued dog like this before, mostly they are quite the opposite and don't want to lose a second owner.  It really has been an education getting to know him.  He is one of those where you watch him all the time and if his head goes up, you call him straight away and don't break eye contact until he starts to recall.  I tried the hiding method but got tired of fetching him from people's bins (complete with copious apologies and clearing up the mess) or waiting for him to come home.

Fortunately Bramble is clingy and never runs off :) Tara has run off a couple of times - well, not exactly run off, but disappeared into a small wood and just won't come back because she saw a deer :( As we live next to the fields I just walk home and she is by my side byt the time that I reach the gate :) :) Standing calling is no good, as someone said, just reassures them that you are still there. They need to know that you've 'gone' - although if they really get absorbed they might not think about that until much later :( :(

Daisy

and if they are hound breeds or Spitz then the running off is quite usual, and more training and then more training, and always taking them to a safe place in case they do bog off (so they can't get into danger or mischief), otherwise lead/long line walking only :(

Thanks for all your replies, looks like a long lead and lots more training then, at least for another couple of years :rolleyes:

Couple of YEARS!!!!! Forgive me.....but don't be daft :-)

You haven't met my nearly 8 year old Elkhound Jozi yet then   Still a work in progress.  Her mother and daughter are such good girls too.

id be hysterical if my dogs went off on their own, they are always watching to make sure they dont lose me!!!!!!

Me too, I couldn't cope if they were out of sight. It's happened a couple of times last year when Gem (youngest collie)decided to take up bunny hunting and was very stressful (for me), thankfully she seems to be over that stage now. The trick with her was just to keep her entertained with a tennis ball, now I keep tripping over her because she's always walking backwards in front of me :D  The borzois are never out of sight, the great thing about sighthounds is that all you have to do is keep scanning the horizon for things they may want to chase and call them back before they see it, I'm higher up than them so generally spot things first. I can't imagine how hard it must be with a scent hound.

It's very difficult to keep Henry entertained, he is not into balls or toys of any kind - his likes are : eating, walking, running, catching flies and obviously the odd bunny and cuddling up on your knee :rolleyes:
If he was toy orientated I think it would be a lot easier, but he is not interested in toys at all
I've tried treats too but he isn't that interested in food outside the house - he picks his head up, his ears twitch and he is off....
Jasper puts his head down and his ears don't move and he is off too 

I'm going to try a girl for our next dog, always did want a golden girl  :) and she may just show them exactly how they should behave :rolleyes:

You can train a dog to become toy orientated, with clicker training. :) I'm currently doing it with one of mine.

Edited to say: I've always found my Golden bitches far, far worse behaved than the dogs -the dogs love to please, the bitches -don't even mention it LOL!!

Tilly my rescue terrier very occasionaly does this. It is so frustrating & very worrying. She once ran off when frightened by a loud bang about a mile from home. She was so lucky, as she had a road to cross, somehow she made it back safely before I did! The 2nd occasion she must have been on a scent in the wood & lost me completely, she started to go home, but luckily a friend of mine spotted her on the pavement heading for home. She was given a lift on the drivers knee (in the front seat) of our friend driving his BMW, who drove down the 'Farm Road' looking for me. She looked like 'lady muck', they don't have dogs & she had left her paw marks all over the car.

Last time she left me, she chased a tractor, in a field, not on a road, (she had never done this before & I was mortified), & was gone out of sight for a good 15 mins. No amount of calling her would have stopped her, she was on a mission, screaming like something demented. I will now never let her off when there is a remote chance of her doing this stupid trick again. 99% of the time her recall is good, I always take treats & she is very, very food orientated, thank goodness. Dogs are dogs though & are not always 100% predictable & we should all remember that. She is always let off the lead when it is safe to do so on her walks, but unfortunately things do happen & we can't always be in complete control, even though we try so hard! I am not perfect & my dogs aren't either.

My 2 year old Pharaoh Hound bitch has been playing 'selective deafness' recently when let off lead in the woods opposite our house.   It takes approx 35 to 40 minutes to walk the outer perimeter circuit path - Patti's stays close then when we get near the end she disapears rabbit or squirrel chasing and after having called her a couple of times, I wait sitting on a fallen tree thats near the exit path - she eventually comes back - the worst being after a extra 40 minutes. Patti is NOT interested in bribery by treats to catch her.

Pam

hi there just reading about your problem..little monkey!  i have two working cockers and when we got our second girl the older one went in a serious huff, and tryed the running away on walks thing, she did this twice! this dog adores me..i cant even go for a bath without this dog liying next to me, so when she did this i was shocked. she ran away after a bird on the beach..fine i could see her but i had no control! so when she came back straight on lead and home, second time (the day after) i was in some woodland just me and her and again she was off, so i called and called..seemed like hours but prob only two-three mins. she came back and again straigh on the lead..i was so angry at her. i needed a min to cool off. so i tied the lead to a tree and walked around 8-10feet perhaps away..and faced away from her. this sounds drastic and it was i hated it. she was crying and pulling to get to me. i thought well not u no what its like when i cant get to u..i no she wont understand that exactly but we are now two years down the line and she has never ran away and if ahe is chasing what ever i have total control. they can have their fun and run about but safety is more important. drastic i no!

I have a  10 month old border collie who is persistant in chasing birds and areaoplanes when off the lead. He ignores me completely and i have to wait until he is tired before i can catch him and put him back on the lead.

He is golden at home but i have never had much luck with recall. When we are out walking he does not respond to treats or toys.

HELP!!!!!!

Seaway, you're going to have to go back to keeping him on a lead or long line for the time being. You can't just let him run around ignoring you, he's having a whale of a time - why bother with you :D Go back to an extending lead or similar, take a squeeky toy or ball with you and lots of really tasty treats. On walks don't just wander along letting him sniff around, go to an open grassy space and play with him, do some training and then play some more. Make him see that you are far more interesting than birds or planes. Collies are very easy to make ball obsessed, especially if he isn't allowed to make up his own fun.

Collies are so intelligent that they will very quickly make up their own entertainment if you don't provide it. Don't worry though, he's still young and you can turn this around with a little effort :)

I totally sympathise Seaway48, my 8 month old collie/lab has just started chasing hares big time, this is in spite of 'trying to be interesting' while out on walks, playing with balls, having cheese & garlic nibbles, training emergency downs and waits etc while on a long line!!  He's one of those dogs who is great at going at down while on the line, but knows that if he's not on it I have no control over him...  NOTHING will stop him once he sees the hare.  And while I do keep him on a long line for quite a lot of the walk and we don't see any hares, typically a few moments after letting him off to have a proper run he'll put one up, like happened today.  Most of the time his off-line recall is very good :rolleyes: but not quite sure how to crack this one!  He does at least come galloping back once he's lost it, but we've got to stop him from going in the first place.

Try whistle training - I cannot pull my two BCs off a seagull/pheasant chase with my voice but with the whistle there is no hesitation and they come straight back. 

Will do, thanks :) might just penetrate between his ears