Hello ! new to the site and in five weeks time we take home a working cocker pup from a friend of ours.(He's not a breeder, he just has a litter when he wants a new working pup) I wanted some advice about the size of puppy crate we should get for house-training etc. I have looked at the sizes it suggests for the breed, but would like advice from real cocker owners. Any other cocker advice/tips would be great. Our previous dogs were a labrador and a chow, but it is seventeen year since we've had a pup so we're a bit rusty!

Hi a medium size Crate should do it that way your pup will grow in to it, can i also suggest you joinn Cockersonline there will be lots of helpfull advice for you over there from people who have working cockers as they're not for the fainthearted.

Thank you for the advice, everyone else has lost the whole point of my post.. and I've only just joined to get some friendly advice!! I've just visited that site and it's got lots of info.

Sorry if you got more than you bargained for, but really if you get a pup from the right source theya re the people to give you the most appropriate advice, most of us are unlikely to know even what size your pup may make, as the working side are pretty variable.

The research into the pups breeding and parents health status is the most important part before you start thinkiong about waht it will need in terms of equipment.

A lot will depend on the kind of car you ahve as to whether you will want one cage that will fit both house and car, and depending on shape of car whether a shapoed crate may be best.  You amy want a proper car cage and a standard crate for the house.

Here are some ideas: http://www.ukdogcrate.co.uk/ and http://www.thedoginn.com/acatalog/dog_crates.html

.(He's not a breeder, he just has a litter when he wants a new working pup)

I am sorry this is one of my Pet hates.  anyone whose bitch has puppies is a breeder, only what kind of breeder is important.

Any litter bred should be bred for a good reason (as your friend does for example to get a working pup).  Of course this breeding carries huge responsibilities to the breed, the bitch, pups and new owners, and the parents should be health tested. 

For cockers the parents should hold a current eye Test certificate from a BVA eye Panelist,a nd preferably all breeds should be hip scored..

Your breeder friend should be able to advise you about all things to do with the pup and during it's lifetime.

hi i dont have cockers but have a springer. im convinced that the bigger the cage the better. also if you have the space i think the puppy exercise pens are great. ours is 4 foot by 4 foot and is 4 foot high and i did not feel half as bad leaving them in that as i did in a cage.

"a nd preferably all breeds should be hip scored.."

i do agree, since i have a dog with leg problems. but when i was getting both my dogs i could not find anyone that had hip scored there springer.

Up to 1/1/06 the hips scoring results for English Springer Spaniels was 645 scored, scores recorded from 0-102 (so no room for complacency).  The mean (average) score is a respectable 13, and the Median (most frequently occurring) is an even better 11.  These are the totals of both hips added together.

Considering how many springers are registered with the KC each year (15,133 in 2006 alone), it is sadly a far too small proportion, but there are breeders who obviously do score and are worth finding.

If buyers insisted on the health tests then the breeders who don't would have to do them or find they cannot easily sell their pups.

Surely the whole point of these forums is to  get independant advice from a variety of dog owners... otherwise if everyone just followed the advice from their particular breeder there would be no need for the many dog related forums I've seen !!!

As for my " breeder" this is his first cocker litter, the pups have not been bred for profit, they were bred so he could keep a pup himself and the rest have gone to friends and family.

As for my " breeder" this is his first cocker litter, the pups have not been bred for profit,

Responsible breeders never breed to make a profit. :)

.(He's not a breeder, he just has a litter when he wants a new working pup)
That makes him a breeder then!!
Surely as your pups breeder he shouyld be experienced enough to be able to offer you all the advise you need? if not....then a) he shouldnt be breeding and b) i wouldnt be buying from him!!!

As I said in my reply above, that's what the forums are for isn't it ? if everyone just followed one breeders advice there would be no need for sites like this....!!!

Sites like this are indeed to gain knowledge, but also to gain friends and share our love of dogs. Sometimes posters come over harsher than they mean to but they have all dogs best interests at heart. ;) Welcome to the forum. :D

Thank you! my pup is coming from a good home.

>He's not a breeder, he just has a litter when he wants a new working pup

You only need to produce a single pup to become a breeder, just as you only need to have one child to become a parent. :)

Seems though that many people sire children but don't consider themselves to have to be responsible for them and be 'parents', so maybe it is the same mindset that thinks breeding a litter does not make you a breeder, responsible for the pups you breed? 

If that doesn't what does?  After how many litters/puppies do you become a breeder then?

There are responsible parents and careless parents; responsible breeders and careless breeders. But they've all been the cause of at least one new life.

I just wanted some friendly advice about cockers!

Has your pup's breeder recommended a crate size?

Yes, he has a 36" crate because he used it for his labrador. But I thought this might be too big. The crate is for home use only.

You could always put a divider inside it at first to make it smaller. I don't use crates myself, but instead put the puppy's bed in a puppy playpen, so that the pup has some space to move. So personally I'd choose a larger crate than a smaller one.

We have just bought a crate in preparation for our new addition ( Lab) and have gone for the one recommended for Large breeds eg Great Dane. I decided on this as can imagine once they have all got used to the new addition the pup make let the two have sleep overs in her crate :)

We used our Golden Retriever's old crate for my daughter's terrier pup and had to prop the door so only the pup could get in as Harley wanted to join him all the time :D

We now have a much smaller crate for use in the car but it is only used for travelling. If you are going to use the crate for helping with house training you will have to divide it so that there is only room for his bed in the part you use as dogs are more reluctant to toilet where their bed is. Of course this doesn't mean shutting him in there for hours on end just for those times when you can't keep an eye out for when he looks as though he needs to be taken outside ( nipping to the bathroom, answering the door etc).

Good luck with your pup - they are a lot of fun but also a lot of hard work :)

If the pup will be similar size to a show cocker then the next size down (30 x 21 x24 high) would be enough if space is tight, but like JG I would opt for the larger crate. 

You never know in a few years time you may get a companion for the pup and they could share a crate in the car or when you travel away, and the 36 inch would be big enough.  I can get two of mine in one.

A two door crate (door in long and short side) is better for the extra £5 or so as it is more flexible as to where you use it.

working cockers if it is a true working strain are usually smaller than the show ones.  There are two gorgeous ones that go to our gundog training and they are only tiny but real characters.  They are on the go ALL OF THE TIME.

You do realise that they do have a brain and some of the working lines will be much harder to cope with than a show line one?

this isnt always the case - over the last 25 years I have had large ones and small ones. I have 5 lying asleep next to me just now of varying sizes. I would go for 30-36 inch cage as some male working cockers can be well up to size and weigh a great deal more than show cockers (Ive bred some that are lean and muscular and weigh 18-19kg) and not knowing too much about the pup the OP is buying, better to err on the safe side and go for a decent size..

working cockers if it is a true working strain are usually smaller than the show ones.

We see a lot of them at our training club and all without exception have been around 50 % bigger than the show ones.

The ones I have met have been bigger than cockers but a bit smaller than working English springers (which seem smaller than the show ones).

The ones at gundog training are smaller and slightly finer than the ones I've seen at the shows.  Brilliant dogs though!

Must vary a lot. I saw one at a gundog demonstration at an agricultural show and he was very large as well. I have to admit I don't like Cockers at all, BUT the working ones I could imagine keeping. :) I love dogs that live to work -just as well considering I have Malinois LOL! :D

Hi Jacqmac,

Welcome to the site, don't take the breeding/health issues to heart, those of us who mention things do so at every opportunity not just for your benefit but to others reading the posts to remind everyone that it is important to look for well bred dogs, so many people end up with unhealthy dogs it is worth us all pointing it out as much as we can, whenever there is a post that can let us slip it in again, which yours does. :-)

Crates are great for pups to keep them safe, give them a den, and somewhere to pop them when they need a time out.  You can always keep them or just bring them out for uses like when painting etc. ;-) and use a dog gate when older.

I agree that most Working Cockers I have met are bigger than their show cousins, they do vary greatly in size, so judge by the parents to get an idea of size.  The medium cage will be absolutely fine and will service your Cocker very well, (especially if you want to transfer to the car too) but personally I would get the larger, I always like to give plenty of room when I use one, (even though they only sleep in them :-D) it depends on space etc as they are pretty big.

Good luck with your pup, does your friend work his dogs by the way? If so I'm sure he will be able to tell you of the lineage they come from and any health issues they may or may no have. Working Cockers are pretty sturdy dogs. As already said, they are more active than a Show Cocker, if you love to exercise they make great companions.

Thanks!

Yes he works his dog.

Our pup will be a pet, though an active one as we live on a private estate and we have a large garden. We wanted a breed that wasn't too big but would love running around with the kids.

And the best thing of all Jacqmac is you have already met the mum and knowthe breed well and most of all what a Working Cocker is, so many people just see an advert for a Working (or English) Cocker and think they are getting a Show Cocker that works! :-)  Even if the Dam looks a little different they see the pup and buy it, not knowing what they have just bought and many not able to cope with the extra exercise and engaging mind of a Working Cocker.

They do make great pets aswell once you know what you have bought for many they just dont.:rolleyes:

We have plenty of people on site with Working Cockers, Springers, Labs, the odd Field Spaniel :-P so any help or advice throughout Benji's puppyhood make yourself welcome on the site. :-)

it is seventeen year since we've had a pup so we're a bit rusty

Oooo you are in for some fun then! :) We always forget what hard work puppies are (and how much older we are) :D . I would agree with the other posters who said to get as big a crate as you have room for. We had a huge crate for our Bernese and then used it for our setter and she was fine in it. It was really just used for night time and to separate them when they got fed up of each other. Its now in our garage as we don't need it but its always handy to have around. We have a smaller crate that we use in the car (Espace with back seats removed). It stops them jumping around the car and being a pain on journeys and keeps them safe, so well worth it. If you can fit a crate in your car then go for the biggest size you can fit in the car comfortably, then you can use it in the car when the dog no longer needs it in the house. There are lots of sites on line that sell reasonably priced crates.
Hope you have fun with your new arrival. Have you picked a name yet?
Marion

working cockers are supposed to be smaller than the show ones as with springers. the working ones are normally  small built as well.. i no a few people with cockers and they are very small. and i dont think there is anything wrong with breeding if he wants one. his bitch might be a fantastic worker and he might of breed it with a ftch dog so he could get a great working pup for himself.

Yes, that is what he has done. It's his only litter with her, to keep a pup to carry her line.

well anyone who has ftch or very good working dogs normally do keep up the good lines.

His name is Benji .

Thanks to everyone for their advice. I have decided to go with the 36" cage as my hubby has already decided Benji may need a friend at some point !!! (we previously were a two dog family) and a chocolate lab would need a bigger crate.....!!

Hi there

Oh, I am soooo jealous!!!!  I would love another working cocker and I will get one in the future.  They are absolutely fabulous dogs - a big dog in a little body!!!  My kind of dog.  My dog Jack is the most intelligent dog I have ever had.  He picks things up in an instant and I now have him getting my slippers for me!!!  He's fab!!!  He brings them and lays them at my feet!!!  This is just a wee thing that I do in the house to keep him amused.

Even at 8 weeks he was really clever.  When he arrived my other 2 dogs were lying on the sofa.  I brought him out of his little carry basket and he shot out, had a look around, tried to get up on the sofa, couldnt get up so he climbed 3 stairs, walked over the back and jumped on top of them.  It was a rude awakening for them.  He then just went to sleep while they walked around wondering what had hit them!!! I would imagine that once you have a working cocker you will probably want to get another one.  I cannot talk highly enough about them.

As long as they get plenty of physical exercise and mental stimulation they are the ideal family pet.  They are kind, gentle and they breed for working ability, temperament and health - not for looks.  That's why the working cocker varies so much in looks.  They are very healthy (generally!) and just love people.

Good luck with your new addition.  What colour is he?  My wee Jack is black with a white stripe down his front.  He is from FT CH lines and has some of the most prolific in his pedigree.

Some people said to me that I would have my work cut out for me but I cant honesty say that has happened.  He is really happy and content but he does get what he needs both physically and mentally so that's probably the reason. 

Re the crate, I got the smaller one as I only used it as a training aid for house training.  My dogs dont sleep in crates etc.,  I have a larger one for the car.

Good luck.  I bet you can't wait!!

Kind regards
Spettadog

Thanks! what a positive reply ! Our lab used to fetch the slippers too!....Benji is lemon and white .

HI again

I used to walk a lemon and white working cocker.  He was beautiful.  When do you get him?

You could always go beating with him.  It would use up much of his energy and keep his brain stimulated.  Now that the shooting season has started, Jack and I will go beating most weekends.  We start tomorrow!!  He'll be exhausted tomorrow night but when I see him out in the fields doing what he was bred to do it makes me feel really good.  He is almost smiling and laughing as he is working.  Bless his little cotton socks!!  At the moment he's asleep on my bed.  He might be a working cocker but he definitely likes his home comforts.   

Annie

Hi ! We get him in four weeks time. We live on an estate so we may well end up trying beating. We have lots of pheasants we feed in our garden, not too sure what Benji will think of them....!! Good luck with the shoot tomorrow.

HI there

I think little Benji will think he's died and gone to heaven!!!  Your days of feeding the pheasants will probably be over.  Its probably best to try and get him used to being around the birds if you may work with him in the future.  Let him be around them but keep him on a lead and reward him for being calm around them.  This will save you a lot of trouble when you come to train him.  Im sure his breeder will be delighted to give you some advice on how to train him up for working.  After all, that's what these dogs are bred for and if he thinks this pup will be working he'll be really pleased.  I know I would be.

That said though, they dont need to work if you keep them well exercised and mentally stimulated so dont think you will be doing him an injustice if he is a much loved family pet.  They are very adaptable little dogs and just love to be around you.

You will probably notice very quickly how much of the natural instincts are there even at 8 weeks.  I was astounded.  I had a rabbit when Jack arrived and within a couple of hours he was checking it out.  I had to build another pen around the pen just to keep Poppy safe.  Sadly, Poppy died from snuffles but I was definitely amazed.

We're off shooting now.  Take care

Annie