How long after an outside tie would the sperm be viable ?
My dog has had a mating today and due to him being too eager we had an outside tie, lasted a minute at most, then he mounted straight away and we had a 45 minute tie, but was wondering if he would have wasted all he had in the outside tie ?
I'm guessing it's one of those things that's hard to judge

TIA
Lydia

considering there are millions of sperm in each drop i would feel hopeful but would also repeat the mating 1/2 days later

The 1 min tie would be as successful as the 45 min.   It is the inital ejaculation that holds the sperm.

sorry i must have mis-read i took the outside tie as meaning most of the sperm hit the floor

that is not correct - there are 3 parts to the ejaculation:

first fluid is a 'cleansing of the tubes' type thing and is slightly cloudy - it does not contain much sperm, the 2nd stage is the sperm rich fluid which has a milky appearance and the 3rd stage is clear fluid to wash the sperm up to the eggs

The outside tie was completely outside, as in on the floor yes, lasted at most a minute after which we immediately had a succesful tie for 45 minutes

If you get as dog stay in the bitch for a minute and then slip out 9r tie outside you could have enough where it needs to be.  I assume and outside tie to be thrust thrust and slip or try to turn to quickly leaving the ejaculate al over the floor.

Yes that was exactly it, although he hadn't even entered her, it was so quick and by the time I told him to wait he had tied :rolleyes:

He couldn't tie if he hadn't mated her. I think you mean ejaculated outside (as opposed to tied) anyway as someone else said there are 3 fractions to the process, the third fraction is clear fluid that pushes the semen where it needs to go during the tie. The fact that he lost fluid after he'd mated her the first time, could have just been some first fraction, which would only contain a relatively small amount of sperms. If he wasn't very erect & lost fluid this is what would have probably happened, however if he was very erect then he may have ejaculated on the floor. Even so, there would still be millions in there, so the fact that you had a 45 min tie is the most important thing, don't worry about the 1st attempt.

"He couldn't tie if he hadn't mated her."  That is what an outside tie is where the bulb swells and he ejaculates outside the bitch so that he cannot mate her until the erection and swelling goes down.

The first time I tried mating my unco-operative Jozi to a dog I had bred (maiden) that is what I got for four days running as she would move at the crucial moment and he was too keen.

When he was presented with a more eager female he learnt how to do things properly :D

Thankyou Barbara, thought I was loosing it for a minute but he had definately tied

That is what an outside tie is where the bulb swells and he ejaculates outside the bitch so that he cannot mate her until the erection and swelling goes down

Gosh I think that is very strange, never ever heard it described as that.   I can't understand for the life of me why the wording TIE would be used. very confusing. Tie suggests just that tied to something.    Wonder why it isn't just described as exactly how it is a missed mating with an outside swollen bulbis. LOL  I think calling it a tie is very confusing. :-)    ( not you Brainless but whoever started to use this wording in the first place)

It is called an outside tie, because the mechanism that causes the tie (the swollen bulb) happens.  this also indicates that ejaculation has or is occuring.

Oh so he didn't mate her at all the first time or do I have this wrong, you originally said had mated her , if he didn't enter then he didn't mate her the 1st time.

What's not correct??  That 1 min matings if ejaculation occurs is less successful that 45 min ties? 

The first 2 stages happen within seconds of each other.   60 secs is quite a reasonably time it you stand and count to 60 :-)

No I didn't say he had mated the first time
Right my question is, how likely is it that he wasted himself on the first 1 min ejaculation and the 45 minute tie would be a waste of time, or does the sperm recover immediatley ?

As I said before if you had a 45 min tie that is a good mating. The fact that he *may* or may not have ejaculated earlier doesn't matter. Even if the 2nd ejaculate was less concentrated, there would still be millions there. It only takes one.

Thankyou
I would normally have put him away for a few hours after the mishap but he was so eager and so was the bitch I just let him carry on, don't know what the "right" way of doing it would be but they were both happy this way and we had a good tie

I wouldn't rely on that mating and would mate them the next two days or two days later depending if bitch is with you or travelling to you.  The practise was probably good for him giving him a chance to cool his ardour a little.  As he gains experience he should learn to control himself better.  The male I bred who did this has become a very efficient boy, who can manage smaller, taller, wriggly, bored bitches equally well

As others have said I would have another mating to be safe but get him in 1st time ;-)

A good push when he is "climbing the ladder "and not allowing him to turn for a minute or so should do it.

Yes that's what we normally do, and did last night for the 45 min tie - he was just way to eager the first time :rolleyes:

You would not believe the trouble I had to get this dog to mate the very first time, we were laughing about it last night, now after a few matings there is no stopping him he just needs to learn to take it a bit slower

If they are both happy then I would alow them to mate until the bitch is no longer keen, the practice will help make him a better stud on future occasions.

Don't be surprised in future if he isn't as gung ho and wants to wait until the tiem is just right.

Oh he has waited, the bitch is staying with me and he's spent the last week checking her out and that's it.  He is a good indicator of the right day and has a 100% record so far (4 litters)