I wondered if somebody could help me.  I have an appointment at a specialist tomorrow as my vet believes one of my dogs has entropian.  She has never had any eye problems before but had an infection a few weeks ago and her eyes were green and gunky.  Took her to the vet and got antibiotic drops.  The eye wasnt getting any better so I took her back to my own vet who diagnosed entropian.  I am not sure that it is this.  My breed are very active (gundogs) and are always in the undergrowth or running through the woods at top speed.  I think it may be an injury as it is only on one eye.  I always thought that entropian affected both eyes.  Am I wrong?

Thank you for your help.

Spettadog

I've got a working cocker spaniel who was born with entropian.  I bred him :rolleyes: and when he was 6 weeks old or so, he had a gunky eye.  By the time he was 9 weeks, I guess, he'd had his first operation.  My vet, who is an experienced chap and has operated on Princess Annes clumber spaniels with the same problem, was reluctant to make the eyelid too loose so erred on the side of caution.  By the time he was 14 week he had his second op and has been fine ever since.

The second eye was clearly too tight, once the problem was pointed out to me, and although wasn't gunky, was done at the same time.  He's as right as rain now, and you'd never know he'd had anything done.

Feel free to ask if you need to chat.

Hi Jackyjat

Thanks for your reply.  The thing is, this dog has never had any problems at all with her eyes and she is now 15 months old!!!  THe vet has referred me to a specialist because he feels it is such a borderline case and the specialist will have all the equipment to check properly.  Her other eye is absolutely fine and has no signs of entropian at all.  This is what makes me think that it is an injury or maybe even a foreign body in it.  She is going to be sedated tomorrow so that the guy can have a real check of it.

My first concern is for the dog.   I hope she isnt suffering.  The second is for the breed.  There have been instances of bitches being bred from that have already given birth to pups with entropian, ectropian and diamond eye and the bitch is current due her 3rd litter.  The breed is very rare and the gene pool is so small that this just cant be allowed to happen.  Its a very sad case.

I pray tomorrow is good news but I will let you know.  So, basically, your boy had it in both eyes, not just the one ie the other was tight too and probably would have developed as he got older?  Im at my wits end worrying about her.

Thanks again
Spettadog

Entropian (inrolling of the eyelid) can be a temporay side effect of swelling caused by infection.

from what I understand from articles I've read congenital entropion seems to be obvious from birth but as Brainless says Entropion can also be a side effect of injury to the eye. I would have thought it more likely to be the latter if the dog has had no previous eye problems by 15 months. I hope the specialist can set your mind at rest and of course help the dogs eye.

Thank you so much.  I honestly would have noticed something if she had been suffering earlier.  I go over my dogs and checked them regularly.  I notice absolutely anything that isnt right!!!

I hope its good news tomorrow but cant thank you enough for your help.  I may even be able to sleep tonight and stop worrying about her.  Worry is such a pointless thing to do isnt it?  Cant help it though.  She is my baby!!

Spettadog

You don't have clumber spaniels, do you?

After breeding experience I've come to the firm opinion that this sometimes "just happens".  Not all the time, and I've taken steps to ensure that none of my pups are bred from as I'd hate to perpetuate this annoying condition.  There is no doubt that it's painful and over the past year I've had my own eye problems that have been very irritating (literally).

Has your vet shown you how to roll the eyelid outwards?  Has he given you artificial tears to put in?

I'm not convinced you would have noticed anything wrong unless you were specifically show what to look for. 

HI Jackyjat
No, the vet hasnt shown me how to roll the eye forwards or given me artificial tears.  Basically, he just said its entropian - a very mild case - but its entropian!!!  I asked for a second opinion and have been referred to the specialist today.  I dont have clumber spaniels but I do have a working cocker who is as healthy as the day he was born.  Never had a problem in his life - apart from getting itchy when his coat gets long - so I keep it short!!!

I dont want to say at the moment what breed I have because they are very rare and I dont want to set panic until I know for sure that this is entropian.

Wish me luck today.  Im hoping its good news.

Spettadog

Hi there

Bad news Im afraid.  My dog has entropian.  She has to go in to have the operation on 6th November.  I will probably get her speyed at the same time.  I am absolutely gutted.  She is a great dog and got a second at her first show in August there SKC.  I cant get another dog because I have 5 at the moment and the others would suffer if I got another one.  Im past all the puppy stuff anyway.  I was just getting used to her being a fairly level headed dog and looking forward to her show career.  Now that is all in tatters. 

Spettadog

where abouts is your specialist based? i,m very surprised that it,s only just come to the for now usually this is noticeable at 6/8 weeks. Did you have the dog at this age ?

HI Welshie

He is in Edinburgh.  I've had her since she was 7 weeks old and there has never been any problem until now.  She is 14 months.  The specialist did say that her eyes were very deep set which is the cause of the entropian.  I always thought this was evident at a young age as well but it seems it is something that can develop as the dog matures. 

Something he said to me today that surprised me.  I told him I wouldnt be able to show her anymore as the operation is basically plastic surgery.  Also she shouldnt be bred from as the condition is hereditary.  He said he wasnt interested in showing and didnt know the rules and it was up to me what I wanted to do and that the disease has not been found to be hereditary!!!!

I called my own vet when I got home to tell him the news and told him this.  He called me back and read out a statement in one of the vet journals relating to this which said that the dog could not be shown nor should a dog which has entropian or ectropian be bred from.

WHile the specialist may not be interested in showing or breeding, I think it would be good if he actually found out what it was about because I would think a lot of his clients may well be interested in showing.

I am absolutely gutted.

Spettadog

The reason she won't be able to be shown is because of the operation altering her natural conformation.  As regards the heredity part the condition itself isn't hereditary per se, but the conformation that predisposes to the condition is hereditary.  In other words breeding for deep set eyes wrinkles, heavy facial features is going to predispose them to having this condition.

Really sorry to hear this but on the bright side the prognosis seems to be good after the operation. Much worse if she had suffered eye damage. I'm really surprised that it has taken this long to become apparent though. I can understand how gutted you must be that your plans for her have been ruined, so disappointing for you. Hope her op goes well.
Marion

I have a bitch who has had entropia.She has had two operations.
Thankfully she is doing great now.
Her eyes got so swollen she couldn't see at all.She got ulcers on her eyes and still has some scaring on them.
I contacted a top breeder and showed  her a  picture of my girl and she replied with this.

Often when bitches lose condition after a litter when they do
look really dreadful they get slight eye problems which go again when they get fat again.
I don't breed but I can't see this happening.My girl has never had a litter
and never will have.