hi there im really hoping someone can help me out. i have two working cocker bitches, one is 29 months the other 16months so they are close in age. they get along great and are both fantasic natured and very well behaved, however my younger dog indi has always been shy..not through my lack of socialisation or training..if anything i have dedicated more time to her due to this problem. she does enjoy her own space and has never been a cuddly dog..even as a young pup would much rather sleep in her bed than near u and still she will sleep on the floor at our feet rather than up on the sofa etc..i do encourage this bonding and sometimes she will get involved. she came into season at 10months old and became very submissive..ie when i open the back door to let them out for a pee etc she rolls over and pees on the floor..i put this down to hormone, completely ignored the behaviour and cleaned up the mess.however six months on she still does it..granted it alters from week to week (one week she will one week she will not) or if i put her meal down and she doesnt want it she will roll over.  she is extreemly clever and i feel perhaps she is indicating that she does noy wish out or food at that time however it i cant help that the longer this goes on the worse it could become, as sometimes she will roll over when guests come over to the house..in which case we simply walk away ignoring this behaviour. i hate to think of her feeling worried or scared of something and wondered if anyone knew of why this happens and is there anything i can do to help her and me. sorry about the long email!!

Hi there

Have you had her at the vet for a check-up?  If this is just a new behaviour I would always advise anybody to take the dog to the vet in case there is underlying physical problems.

I have working cockers too and can only say that if they can they will wind you round their litter fingers (or should I say paws!!!).  They are exceptionally clever dogs and I think indi has discovered that you give in to her when she does what she is doing.  My suggestion would be to actually completely ignore the behaviour and walk away.  I think it is attention seeking!!!  I honestly wouldnt worry about this because the more you worry the more she will do it.  Everything should be very upbeat and happy.  When she rolls over submissively just say "oh well!" in a happy voice and walk away.  She will soon be up to see where you are going!!! 

Just had a thought.  She could well be coming into season again or, if she has just had a season, she could be experiencing a phantom.

I hope this helps to put your mind at rest.

Spettadog

Hi,

Is your 29 monther a dominant bitch, is Indi submissive like this even when your elder bitch is not near her?

I can understand a submissive bitch when in season giving off submissive signals i.e. rolling on her back if there were an entire male dog around and she did this in order the show the alpha bitch her pecking order but it seems a very strange thing for her to do if you just have the two bitches unless your elder is a real strong Alpha type.

Can you give a little more detail into the communication between the two bitches, the age gap between them is fine but have their been problems has the older one been particularly hard on her.

This would also affect her at meal times to show submissivness and first servings to the Alpha bitch.

If they have grown up together without problems and you have always been an owner who uses praise and reward and no harsh methods of training to make her be submissive to yourself either, as Cockers are very sensitive dogs when it comes to training.............. then I am afraid that she is just an extremely submissive dog and as suggested I would just ignore her.

The fact that she rolls on her back and pees is quite worrying though for her age, no dog should be that submissive.

I've pinched this for you from k9web.com it is about submissive urination, which I think is the main problem you need to tackle first, sorry it is written for a male dog but sure you can work your way around that. It also contradicts my ignore advice :-( in the last sentences which is fine I admit this makes more sense why not to ignore the behviour.

Tips:
Wait when you come home. Say "hi" and be verbally friendly, but don't touch or pet it for about 5-15 minutes. Try not to make the moment more exciting than it already is.
When you greet it, get down on its level. Rather than standing and bending at the waist, bend at the knees (or sit) so that your face is about level with his and you are not looking down on him. This is a less dominant position, and less likely to trigger a submissive posture.
Don't pet it on the head. Rather, tell it to sit, maybe "shake hands", then scratch it under the chin and on the chest. This is less dominating than the pat on the head (because you avoid standing over it).
When you correct this type of dog, do so with your voice only (avoid direct eye contact). If it starts to urinate, then say immediately, "OK, let's go out!" in a happy tone of voice -- and take it out. Or, take a toy out (something it likes to do) and play with it. What you are doing here is telling your dog, "OK, I see your submissiveness. That's good."
When guests come over, ask them to ignore your dog and not look at it even if it comes up and sniffs them. After a bit, when people are sitting down then have them gently put their hands out and talk to your dog, without looking at it. Usually after about 15 minutes or so everything is fine.
In general, show signs of low-key approval immediately when the dog becomes submissive. Then distract it with something else. When you ignore submissiveness or get mad at it, you're in effect telling the dog "You're not submissive enough!" so the poor thing intensifies its efforts -- and submissive urination is about as submissive as it gets.
Be really positive with your dog, this type lacks self-confidence and will look to you quite often to make sure everything is OK.



Hope that it helps.

my older bitch emme is a star a real dolly with her they play togther, sleep piled up in one big bed.  there is no top dog in our house (apart from me) emme does rank herself as higher ie she come into season first, but never seen anything to worry about between them.

they eat side by side and indi always trys to take the good bits out of emmes dish..so i sit with them now so this doesnt happen, as emme would quite hapily let her

Well try the techniques above to see if that helps her at all, otherwise if she is still a happy, though submissive dog try not to worry, remember dogs pick up on our every emotion, some dogs are just naturally shy it is only the peeing bit I would be wanting to get rid of otherwise you will just have to learn to love her for all her faults. :-) and on the back flips. :-D

By the way does she only submissive pee, could she possibly have a bladder infection?

hi there thank you all so much for your halp and advise. i had them both at the vet today for their jag and she got all checked out and health wise she is fine.
since all the advice has been flooding in i have been avoiding eye contact when i go and let them out and shes doing great with it, also avoiding too much eye contact when clapping her, as well and kneeling down to her level and letting her come to me (i was doing this anyway but the eye contact def is making a difference) i think she sees me as boss and is being submissive..but dont like her being too submissive. so fingers crossed
only one pee so far and that was yest..she was jumping around so excited then little accident!

Brilliant!  Well apart from the little accident. :-D