hi i was wondering if anyone could help. i have a bitch and a dog who i have wormed on several occasion. every time i worm them they seem to be sick and have really bad diarrhoea, i have tryed a few different ones and even the one from the vets, i was just wondering if this is normal.

Wormers are very strong and can cause a reaction as you mention.

I give my dogs 4 seasons anti parasitic wormer once a month which is much more gentle than the chemical wormers and just as effective.  You can get it from here: http://www.holisticpetsupplies.co.uk/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=87&reviews_id=69

thankyou, do you use the £5.99 one that does 30 doses. that seems really cheap compared to the other ones i was buying.

that's the one and yes it is quite cheap compared to the chemical ones :) 

I think you cannot say it is just as effective as modern wormer's will treat the larval stages.  the natural one may be effective against adult worms and make the environment unpleasant, but I don't think the makers make any claims to it being as effective as the likes of Panacur or Drontal.

As for fecal samples, if we tested Rather than wormed which is what most US breeders I am in touch do, you would find that most of the samples are negative.  We overuse wormer's just as much as over vaccinate as it is cheaper to worm vaccinate than pay what are vets charge to titre test/test fecal samples.

Most adult dogs will be negative for roundworms (assuming adequate worming when pups), which are primarily found in puppies, lactating/cycling bitches and those in close contact with these.

Our preocup[ation and fear of Toxacara are mainly due to the anti dog lobby latching onto this issue which hasn't been used so much in other countries.

I say it is effective because my dogs don't have worms, but you are right Brainless it is important that the dogs are wormed properly as puppies.

Apparently pumpkin seeds are supposed to help prevent them too which I also add to their food.

Point is that chances are your dogs would not have worms anyway.  I haven't used anything for fleas on my lot for over a year whereas I religiously used frontline every three months until one time they all got to scratching and biting themselves after one application.

I did tentatively use it again on the ones least affected by the reaction and no problem the next time after about 6 months, but since then I haven't done mine for over a year and no fleas.

I have decided from now on unless they get them that an occasional bath in flea shampoo will suffice unless I get another flea allergic one as was my now deceased oldest which is why I did the frontlineing do regularly.

God forbid I am not condoning not worming dogs, but I think people would be surprised if they fecal tested them that the adults may not need doing very often.

I understand your reasoning.

I don't use any chemicals on my dogs for worms or fleas.  I used to be like you on my last dog and he went into a trance like state every time frontline or stronghold was used - as the vet said it wasn't connected I listened to the vet so I continued every 3 months.

Anyway, now I do it naturally, and I want them to be protected and as I have a young grandson I need to be confident they don't have worms so the 4 seasons anit parasitic one is what I use, along with pumpkin seeds.  For flea protection I use garlic, brewers yeast and shower them with neem shampoo.

So far (keeping everything crossed) they are both free from both. 

Hi :)

Apart from when they were puppies, for my own reasons, I don't use chemical worming/flea treatment on my dogs either.

I have always used Four Seasons and touch wood it works. I also use garlic and Brewers Yeast to repel fleas, but I've never had an outbreak of fleas so I cannot be sure that these would be effective against fleas if they were to be infested.

When would you stop using the worming and flea treatment and start using preventative measures of a more natural nature?

Our puppy is 7 months old but this does interest me as i would be keen to use as little chemicals on him as possible

As I have entire bitches to whose cycles the life cycle of the round worm is linked I always use proven efficient wormers.  If I had a Pet male dog after about two years of thorough worming I would think using other methods in between times would be OK, but I would still want a proper wormer every six months.

We picked up Jasper at 7 weeks old and he had been wormed and a flea treatment used.  When we took him to the vets for his vaccination at 12 weeks old he had another worming treatment and then a month after that I started with the 4 seasons anti parasitic wormer every month and as he is on a raw diet he started with garlic from 7 weeks, quite a small amount initially.

So he hasn't had any chemical wormers since 12 weeks of age and no chemical flea treatments since 7 weeks - he will be 18 months old next week!