I am so mad I could cry. We had a litter 5 months ago, we vet all owners very carefully, meet before whelping and have visits and phone calls before they take the pups. All of our pups are endorsed and have a contract of sale stating that we will always take the said dog/puppy back for whatever reason. we offer lifelong support and follow up the puppies progress with e-mails and telephone calls.
To cut a long story short, I became concerned about one of our puppy owners, she didn't return e-mails or telephone calls for the past 5 weeks, her phone constantly went to answerphone and we left countless messages and e-mails. It reached a head tonight when I convinced myself that the pup had died, my husband rang and left a message asking her to phone us as we were very concerned about the pups welfare. We had a very terse e-mail stating not to worry the puppy was now living with someone else and was far happier than she had been with them. We replied stating that we would like to know where said puppy had gone and why she had not contacted us if she had difficulties and we would have taken the puppy back as stated in her signed contract of sale.
The owner replied that she had gone into breed rescue and why should we be so concerned as we had not contacted her for 3 months. I have a log of all phone calls and keep all e-mails. I am devastated firstly that she felt the need to put her into rescue at 5 months, not contact us at all and why rescue didn't contact us to take her back in.
Natrually we are devastated, dissapointed and hurt. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach at the moment and am sitting crying writing this. I cannot understand why breed rescue did not contact us and I will ring tomorrow to find out more details from them.

I had a litter in march and like you vetted, visited etc.
I have been keeping in contact with all puppy owners with phone calls, photos being sent to me etc.
We have had 4 of the 5 pups come and visit us for 'coffee and Bonio' weekends and all is going well.
But I am getting worried about the 5th puppy, I have not heard from the owners for a while now, they do live further away then all the others but I have not heard a thing, and like you I had all owners sign a contract to state they could return the pup if for what ever reason, and that I am here throughout the pups life for support.
I think I will phone them tomorrow, I am dreading the response I may get, but as a responsible person I need to know what has or hasn't happened.
Good luck with your phone call to the rescue tomorrow, I think breed rescues should have a duty to call breeders and at least inform them of any pups of their breeding that have been passed to them.

Sometimes people lie to rescue, but if they knew who the breeder was I would have hoped to be contacted, but do know in my own breed of a situation where the rescue were between a rock and a hard place as for the dogs sake they had to respect the owners wishes on not disclosing, the breeder found out later by accident from the new owner and was not happy.

This is always a risk when homing.

My heart really goes out to you, by accident once one of our mutual friends answered a call on a forum for a person to pick up a dane for transport to a foster home, he duly picked it up BUT the person giving it up gave our friend the KC papers on finding out exactly who the breeder was (a well know truly respected person) he rang the rescue to say he knew for a fact the breeder would be concerned and had they contacted them, they were very very aggressive towards him and said in no uncertain terms it was the breeders fault for selling it to a home not fit for the dog..
With much soul searching he repeatedly rang the rescue with his concerns and each time was abused so he did indeed contact the breeder who immediately took it back ..... It totally shocked our breed that this was indeed a policy within certain rescues, yes of course there are unscrupulous breeders out there and its probably a line they have to adhere to (but heavens sake within reason!!)
Would it be possible to get hold of the resuce in question just to enquire if the puppy is doing ok? as many rescues dont pass on papers as a rule so the new owner would never have mind to contact you.. :( :(

Thank you all for your kindness. I am going to contact the said breed rescue tomorrow and will fill you in with their version of events. Thank you all again

I know that sick feeling only too well and infact I was thinking about our scenaria (3yrs ago now) just this morning so you don't forget.  All you can do is hope that the pup has a happy life because you can't change what has happened.

I realise this must be heartbreaking for you but, as you know, our GR came to us from a rescue at just 10 weeks old and is greatly loved and has a wonderful life. Your puppy has hopefully gone to a home that is worthy of him and will have a great life in front of him with someone who truly cares for, and about, him.

If your pups  are microchipped  you may be able to find out if a new address has been notified to the microchip company. Our GR was chipped by the rescue and any change of address we notify is also given to the rescue by the company. We changed our pup's name when we got him and the microchip company wouldn't alter this on their records until they had received confirmation from the rescue. If the puppy was chipped you could always ask the co. what address they have listed for him.

Hope you can manage to locate him soon.

In our breed rescue there is a policy of NOT telling breeders because of the problems it can cause, recently had a case where the breeder is well known and is an excellent owner etc but the new owner of the dog had a stroke and refused to hand over the dog until we signed to say we wouldn't let the breeder see the dog let alone have it back.  WE knew there was no issue with this breeder and that the owner had previously had resuce dogs from appalling condidions and even the hosptial agreed she was confused about the dogs past but as she knew what she was doing she was allowed to continue and we had to follow her wishes too.

Imagine if we'd contacted the breeder and told her we had her dog but couldn't give it back to her as we'd had to sign to say we'd not tell her or give the dog back to her despite us knowing there would be no problems if we did?  The poor breeder would be devastated and angry all in the same breath so for me this brought home the sense of the no breeder contact issue as previously like you I thought it unfair.

I am sorry but if I ever found out our rescue did such a thing to me they woudl stop getting my support forth with.

Surely the breeder can be told of the owners wishes and be reassured of thir pups future.

Our rescue advise the owner contacts the breeder first.

What terrible news. I would hope that breed rescue would be thrilled to have the puppy's breeder call and say they wanted her back; that there was actually a contract that required she be returned to you and the owner had made a mistake. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you track her down and are able to bring her home.

It could well be that the breed rescue haven't been told who the breeder is because lets face it the owner hasn't come across as being one for telling the truth. Hopefully your fears will be unfounded when you speak to them. It just shows you that we can do all the right thing but still get taken in by some of the idiots out there. Good luck, hope everything goes okay.

This is awful news you must be devastated, hoping you find an answer from the breed rescue. As Harley says, if you don't find out that doesn't mean she hasn't gone to a really good home - keeping everything crossed for you  and this little girl xx

Thank you all for your concerns. I feel really positive that you all feel the same way. I spoke to breed rescue this morning (well hubby did as I was so upset and had no sleep last night). She took Amber in at 5 months as she had tried to toilet train her in a cat litter tray! She could not cope with her being boisterous. She said she was acutely embaressed to contact me and breed rescue felt that if they didn't take her then she would have ended up on e-pupz. BR told us that she had been re-homed inShropshire but the new owner had left a garbled message about her not getting on with her other goldie. We have told breed rescue that if they cannot cope we will have her back straight away. So really no further forward. Apparently our contract isn't worth the paper it was written on, which shocks me. I will let you know how we get on and thanks again for all of your support. Just want the little girl back here with us where she will be loved and cared for. I feel awful at making such a mistake also in my vetting procedure,it's torture.

You are right the contracts isn't worth the paper it is written on as once a pup is sold it is the new owners property to keep or dispose of as they wish, what it really does is show that you are willing to have the pup back, so that the new owners have that option. 

You cannot compel them to let you have the pup back, or any thing else for that matter as it is their property. 

That is why mine is caled a 'Puppy Sale Agreement' and not a contract.  the only contract is the contract of sale you enter into when the pup is sold.

I'll have my fingers crossed, i hope you get her back or find that shes got a forever good home.

I have everything crossed for you here its one of those taboo issues surrouding rescue that i do feel urgently needs to be adressed, in our breed on one hand the rescues are crying out for new homes but yet on the other they are loathe to contact a breeder who would 98% of the time take a puppy of theirs back...

I hope this all works out for you. Sounds like she is just being a puppy and from my experience some are more boistorous than others but still being a puppy nonetheless. I have 3 dogs (one acquired due to being unwanted) two I had before joining CD. They are much loved and I wouldn't swap them for the world but had I been a member on this forum I almost certainly would not have approached the breeders where they came from. I would have loved the support that you offer when mine were little if only to have someone who understood and who cared about them as I do even though they were fine. I admire all you are doing for your puppy and I hope you are able to get her back home with you.
jane

I had an interesting experience when I took on a 6 month OES because the couple who had bought her didn't want her anymore!
I contacted the breeder as I thought they would like to know what had happened. It took me a while and a bit of searching as the paperwork that came with the dog didn't have any contact address or phone number (that included a home written pedigree and everything they had been given by the breeder who was known in the OES showing world so was not a hobby breeder) To my complete and utter surprise she had no interest in what had happened to the puppy or if I was suitable to take it on. She didn't want my name or telephone number to keep in contact and couldn't finish the conversation fast enough.

My rescue always rang a breeder if a breed came in with KC papers.
We never found one that was interested.

Rescues have the same sort of contracts about not rehoming dogs but returning them to the rescue, but come across the same problem with people either ignoring this or not even reading their contracts properly, and then rehoming dog on to someone else.
It's very annoying, but like someone said, once a rescue or breeder homes a dog, it is a grey area as regards contracts and ownership.
Legally, actualy physical ownership has the potential to neutralise such contracts.
I'm not aware this issue has been definitively settled in law yet.

Trevor Cooper at dog law has some info:
http://www.doglaw.co.uk/

Thats awful!

I hope that you get her back, at least the breed rescue are aware that you would have her back

Its not your fault, some people aren't always what they seem and it would be impossible for someone to get it right every time, the important thing is that you clearly care very much about the puppies that you breed!

"My rescue always rang a breeder if a breed came in with KC papers.
We never found one that was interested"

To put that in perspective, one would hope that the vast majority of people who bought pups from the kind of breeder that expected them to come back to them would have done just that.  So I would expect the majority that ended up in rescue to have breeders that were puppy producer's and not true breeders.  this is even more likely in the most exploited popular breeds.

If USA figures are anything to go by they calculate that only 12% of pedigree pups are produced by dedicated breeders, another 67% are produced by casual back Yard breeders, who aren't large scale commercial outfits, but don't feel any responsibility for the pups they breed.

I hope your rescue still contacts the breeder just in case they turn out to be a responsible caring one.

Keep waiting for the phone to ring now. My hubby is going to call again tomorrow to find out if the new owner still wants her and can cope, if not she will come back here hopefully. Picking up on earlier messages about rescue, the lady that hubby spoke to said that they had only ever had 2 properly bred Goldens in the rescue, the rest were from puppy farms, back yard breeders. Still feel gutted as all of the paperwork was taken to the rescue including our large puppy pack, contract that states she should contact us first, kc documents etc. it would have been obvious I would have thought to rescue that this pup was bred with love and care and we are responsible breeders. I feel they really should have contacted us first before re-homing her.

I suppose they usually have Clutha's expereince so just don't think breeders will step up to the plate.

but this puppy was passed on to BREED rescue - I can't imagine them not contacting the breeder first ! -I find this story horrific - just goes to show that no matter how much care you take there is always an element of risk when selling pups.

Yvonne

In a popular breed, breed rescue probably still don't get much positive feedback from the registered breeders.

I know someone in a fairly popular guarding breed who discovered years later that one of her pups had gone through breed rescue and she hadn't been contacted, despite having the pups all tattooed too, so identity and breeder easy to establish.

Any news Rachael? I'll keep my fingers crossed for a good outcome.

No good news I am afraid. Hubby spoke again last night to breed rescue and the owner is having problem with food stealing from her other dog. We reiterated again that we want her back here and rescue said they can understand how we feel as if she were in the same position she would feel the same way!!! Good job I didn't speak or I think I would have lost it completely at that. I am going to write a letter to the Midland asking them to get set guidelines underway so this does not happen to another poor breeder. I have spoken to the Golden Retriever Club and their policy is to first contact the breeder, cannot now understand why the Midland do not follow this also.
I do not want to cause problems for the rescue but I feel very strongly they have failed in their duty of care in this instance, could understand if they didn't have any paperwork with the pup but she went with everything, KC documents, puppy pack, contract etc.
Thanks again for asking Lori x

That's terrible. :( I would ask the rescue to contact the new owner specifically to tell them you want her back. I think most people who took a dog on from rescue would be reluctant to return the dog to a rescue situation due to embarrassment at perceived failure and worry over the dog's welfare. If they knew her original breeder would provide her with a caring, forever home they might be relieved. At the minimum you could ask rescue to give them your number so the new owners could call for your advice at any time. Then at least you would get a foot in the door. I'll still keep some hope for a better solution.

Thanks Lori, with my head spinning at the moment I haven't thought of that angle. I will get Hubby to ring tonight as still can't face talking to them for obvious reasons. Thank you x

I agree with Lori, unfortunately you will have to keep you cool on this one and hopefully rescue will realise that you are a responsible breeder that wants to best for your puppy.

Yes I agree with Lori too, if the breed rescue have the puppy's best interest at heart, I'm surprised if they don't pass your details on to the new owner.

I'd have to keep pestering them - good luck and really hope you have some positive news soon.

You may find that the breed rescue aren't allowed to give you full details of your pup's present whereabouts :( as we found out but from the opposite position of trying to trace our rescue GR's breeder.

The rescue won't tell us who his previous owners were - or pass on an enquiry to them from us - in order that we can trace his breeder and assure them that their dog, rehomed at 10 weeks with us, is well and thriving in a new forever home.

The rescue knew who his breeder was but didn't tell them they had one of their puppies handed in for rehoming.

Just a quick update. I spent nearly an hour on the phone to a solicitor today and it appears all is not lost. I won't fill you in on the details yet until the letters have been sent but basically the old owner has failed in her contractual duty and we are applying for a court order that states she must fulfil her contractual duty. It's a bit more long winded than that but that is the laymans terms. Just hope now we get the girl back.

Oh we'll keep our fingers and paws crossed.

I can't understand a legal system that ignores signed contracts. :( It's not like one has to have a dog to survive some might debate that point :-D so if you don't agree to the terms you don't buy the dog. Or buy from someone else. They could hardly argue the buyers signed such a contract out of desparation and coercion.

Thank you Lori. My solicitor has dealt with a very similar thing and that had a very good outcome, so I hope he works his magic on this too. x

I'm keeping everythng crossed for you xx

Keeping everything crossed -and would love to hear the full story eventually, as this sounds like something every breeder would have use of knowing. We're always told our contracts are useless, so if there is a way that would be great!

The solicitor may just be 'can rattling' - if he points out to the buyer that there is a contract, the buyer may not wish to go down the expensive route of challenging it :( Hopefully it will work - but doesn't necessarily mean to say that the contract would be upheld if it actually went to court :)

Daisy

Also in this case the owner no longer has the puppy but passed it onto rescue who have re-homed it and these people are now having difficulty,or have I misunderstood?

Looks like you are making some headway, hope you get your girl back. I have to say that I am very surprised that the rescue can't at least let the new owners know that you are concerned and ask if they can pass you details to them, surely they realise how concerned you are.

Really hope this works out for you and you get your pup back :) :)

Fingers crossed that you get your girl back where she belongs!