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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Possible food dominance issues, please help!
- By sibeluver03 [us] Date 13.09.07 21:36 UTC
Hello everyone, I will just get straight to my issue by filling you in with a little information about my dogs so that you may better understand the situation. This is may be an issue of food dominance, I believe.

Kieron is a spayed 5 year old female Siberian husky.
Houdini is a neutered 4 year old male Siberian husky.
Willy is an un-neutered 1.5 year old Cattle-dog/heeler mix.


Kieron and Houdini had the run of the house for several years before Willy arrived. Willy was a pound dog rescued from our local vet. At first, Kieron and Houdini shared a large self-feeder bowl, one of those that lets more kibble down as it is eaten. They always got along great and never fought over food. Kieron always ate her fill first, then Houdini would eat his share.

Then little puppy Willy arrived from the pound as a rescue. All three got along very well. The pack order was as expected: Kieron in the top dog position followed by Houdini with young Willy ranking last. That was the order they ate out of the large food bowl. As young Willy grew bigger and older, still no fighting happened, but we stopped using the one large self feeder bowl and began placing small individual bowls in the kitchen so they could all eat together. The bowls were all seperated in different corners of the kitchen.

As Willy continued to grow into a bigger boy, he began pushing Houdini away from his bowl to eat Houdini's food in addition to his own. Houdini seemed to accept his new rank in the pack and would wait for us to put more food down for him. Then Houdini began bullying Willy around. The pack order would change every week, it seemed like.

That wasn't such a big deal. Now is where the trouble has begun. Both Houdini and Willy seem to think they are dominate over each other. Both try to eat as much food as they can and both end up throwing up because they are over eating.

We thought the solution would be to simply feed them at different times. Kieron and Houdini would come inside first and food would be set down for them. Kieron would eat her bowl, as usual, but Houdini would show no interest whatsoever in his. But when Willy would be let in, Houdini would suddenly act like he was starving. He would run into the kitchen and eat his bowl straight through and then try to take over Willy's bowl. So, we decided to switch the schedules. We let Willy inside first. The same thing would happen!! He would show absolutely no interest in his food bowl and would lay in front of the couch sound asleep. But as soon as Kieron and Houdini would come inside, he would bark aggressively and jump up as fast as he could to beat Houdini into the kitchen.

We are currently just separating Kieron and Houdini from Willy. There is a chair keeping them separated. Willy has eaten his bowl and Kieron has eaten hers. But Houdini has not taken one bite of his and keeps going to where the chair is separating himself from Willy and just stares at Willy. And if he is not standing by the chair, he lays in the living room facing the direction Willy is at.

I will also add that even when not eating, Houdini and Willy sometimes get into small fights if they get too close to each other. One of them could be laying sound asleep on the floor while the other simply walks past. Something sparks something else and they are in each other's faces. I have never had to seperate an actual fight, thank goodness. So far it is all just sound and show.

It's easy to feed these dogs separately and we will do that if needs be. But I would just like any advice you wonderful people might have to offer. Is there anything at all I can do to solve this dominance issue?
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 13.09.07 21:41 UTC Edited 13.09.07 21:45 UTC
Feed them all in separate rooms where they can't see each other.

As far as the squabbles go, if you go along with conventional 'pack' theory, your entire youngster is usurping the position of the elder, but emasculated, dog, as would be expected. If it sorts itself out then pack theory wins. If they continure then they probably don't really like each other very much. People don't always get along with their families - why should dogs?
- By sibeluver03 [us] Date 13.09.07 21:46 UTC
But why do they keep switching positions? One will dominate the other and then the next thing I know, they have totally made a switch! I mean, one night Willy will snarl at Houdini and the next Houdini will snarl at Willy. I know pack order can change quickly, but every other night? They're nuts!
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 13.09.07 22:01 UTC
No they're not nuts, they're even.

In a settled group, different dogs will take precedence in different circumstances. Leadership, if you want to use that term, is fluid.
- By HuskyGal Date 13.09.07 23:38 UTC
Hi Sibeluver,
Hope I can help here, but first Ive some questions (to make sure any advice would be right for you)
-I'd like to know what the time frames were... how long were each of your different trials of different ways of feeding them?
-Do you remove the bowls once everyone has done and most importantly before other dogs are allowed back into the area.
-what exactly is your method at the moment for feeding all 3
-what excercise do all 3 dogs get?

Meanwhile I'd like you to take a look at an article I think (hope!) you'll find useful, its by Turid Rugaas a Norwegian Trainer, and shows you how to 'speak dog' I really think you need to know this because I am willing to bet my 'bottom dollar' ;) that the dog *you think* is dominant...is not ;) Looking at how they behave at feeding time to me is not the classic time to work this out rather how they behave and what 'calming signals' are used at other times.
this is the article on calming signals -> http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1
Read that... and see if that helps you see the relationship between Willy and Houdini better?

and for now I'd totally agree with JG. what an unnessecary stress for you dogs your feeding regime is at the moment... they need to feel safe.
And dont forget Sibes are verrrrrrrrrry atuned as you know, I really feel for Houdini the stress he's been put under.
But I also feel for you too, you've had a big learning curve with your bitch fighting with neighbours dogs and now this,But theres light at the end of the tunnel we can nip this in the bud get educated and start making things alot more pleasant for everyone in your house :)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 14.09.07 14:39 UTC Edited 14.09.07 14:46 UTC
I would never ever let one dog approach another dogs food dish. 

My dogs know that no-one will take their food, and I will add things to it when I feel like it so they have never had the need to be come food possessive. 

It isn't food dominance as even young pups and submissive low ranking individuals will protect their food, it is a basic survival trait.

they are so used to the rules I no longer need to stand in the middle of the room while they eat, but can go into the living room adjacent to the kitchen (but they know I am watching).
- By Archiebongo Date 14.09.07 15:51 UTC
I'm going through a bit of food dominance at the moment with my 2 boys.  Both eat in the same room and at the moment I stand between them.  My older one who is being possesive over his food is not a good eater and keeps bullying the younger pushing him away.  As soon as I noticed this,  I began standing in the middle of the room with them to stop it and fingers crossed a few weeks on, I can now move to the doorway with no problems.   If you nip it in the bud early they'll soon realise that you are boss at feeding times

Jill
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Possible food dominance issues, please help!

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