Hi,

I haven't posted for a long time but need some sensible advice from some of my fellow dog slaves:rolleyes:

Callia, as some of you may remember is a female Briard (who is now spayed) and will be 3yrs in Dec, has serious issues with other dogs when out for walks. Before Briards I had GSD's for many years.

Background information: I have had her since she was 7 weeks old from the same breeder of my 5 yr old perfectly mannered Briard male. Due to the fact (certainly no excuse) that we moved from Kent to Scotland when she was 4 months old (due to close family terminal illness) and didn't socialise her as much as she needed, she still has issues with other canines. (My fault entirely) and I must add that she has been through the normal socialisation process since she was 8 months old.

I have overcome car phobia, Vet phobia, firework phobia with her and am still working through mild resource guarding which is going well.

She has been through a number of training aids including easy walker, Halti, half check collar and finally, harness, the harness seems to be the best walking aid as anything around her mouth makes her panic! Bearing in mind that she weighs 45 kilos, she has a lot of weight and strength, although she walks well providing she doesn't encounter another dog.

The problem that I have is that as soon as she sees another dog she starts to bark very aggressively and no matter how much I try to get her attention she will completely ignore me. I make her sit and use the phrase 'look at me' with a high value treat ready, she still manages to sit but bark and then finally rear up at the other dog. I don't reward her unless she very rarely ignores the other dog. I feel that she is displaying a fear/aggressive  stance with any other dog, other than my male Briard.

I think that if she had more experience with other dogs she would play as she is very playful and puppylike with my boy but the problem is I don't really know how she would react with another dog (off/on lead) (I don't let her off lead at all in public)  and I'm not prepared to try her with a 'stranger dog' as I cannot predict her behaviour, particularly because of her size and weight.

I have recently contacted several dog training clubs and they have all told me that they will not admit her to class because of her dog aggressive behaviour as it will distract the class.

Has anybody got any good pointers for me that I can implement other than home visit behaviourist. I am not against this route but feel that I would like to try and tackle this myself before I implement such measures.

Just so I don't misunderstand, do you walk her with your other dog or separately? And is she of the same breeding as your other dog, or just from the same breeder?

Hi JG,

I have always walked her seperately from Murfee (other dog) but on the odd occasion we walk them together in the morning because we are short of time it makes absolutely no difference to her behaviour (or his)

They have the same mother but different fathers but are both Briards : )

I had to ask because I have a dog who's a bit iffy when he's with the others but a lot better on his own. I've had him and his litter brother all their lives, and they've had exactly the same upbringing, but their characters are totally different. Sometimes it's just the way they are. Sorry I can't be of any more help. :(

I can't help either but can sympathise. I have a dog that acts the same as yours too. Like JG I have him and his litter brother since they were 7 weeks old, they were very well socialised as pups and yet are like chalk and cheese now. One you can take anywhere and never bothers about other dogs, and the other is absolutely horrible with other dogs. I've tried various training methods, he's been 'seen' by two behaviourists and is neutered. He's 6 1/2 now and has calmed down a little but I've come to accept that he simply doesn't like other dogs.

Nature is definitely as important a factor as nurture.

Yes I agree, even as a pup Tchi was stroppy with other dogs. My old bitch actually bit him and drew blood when he refused to back down from her in an argument over a bone. He was only 6 months old, and she was a fabulously tolerant top dog too I was really surprised and shocked at the time, but with hindsight I think she knew how he was going to turn out and hard to be hard on him.

Piglet will always be an unpredictable little git too. He's just pathologically timid and would rather have nothing to do with other dogs if it can be arranged. Once a meeting with another dog has been arranged, and the other one hasn't worried him, then he's happy to ignore it. We can meet them on walks and there's no probem - the other dog doesn't exist. But if he meets one that's displaying aggressive signals - leaning into a collar and panting, for example - he'll want to make it go away and stop scaring him. His litter brother Harry, however, assumes that other dogs are friendly, calmly says hello and is startled if they turn out not to be.

Same breeding, same upbringing. Totally different characters.

Thanks for your views guys

But......aha, here comes the but....??? I have to educate her as I've been through the 'big dog' syndrome before and realise that if I was on the other end of her aggression with another dog I would be very unhappy

For example, yesterday we (tried?????) to walk past a Lab pup and Callia scared the living daylights out of her by barking and lunging on the lead, all the pup wanted to do was play. We saw the same pup today when I walking Murfee and they interacted ok without any problems. The Lab pup walked off with her tail in the air and was very satisfied with her encounter

Callia has met other dogs within the family and scared them to death, whether it was because she thought she could dominate or because she was scared I really don't know. I must admit, she is the first dog I have owned that I am really unsure of the body language, I really don't know if she is genuinely aggressive or scared?? Her head is up along with the tail and the lunging forward is ugly.

What should one do in this situation????

I can't help with personal experience but this post describes what one person did to help their dog. you don't mind do you HG? :) Personally I would want help assessing the root of the aggression (is it fear or not) from a behaviourist I trusted.

could you track down a good behaviourist that has a 'stooge' dog to do some one-to-one with a dog that gives out calming signals.  No idea where  you could get one near you but it might be more controlled.

nothing constructive to add I'm afraid, I took advice from here when I got my lab, Biscuit, he was just over two when I got him and what we thought was perfect.  He was until we met another dog, it's taken 4 months and a dog behaviourist to help sort him out.  He went there for a couple of weeks and we've continued but the 'nice' command works for him.  dog approaching, you say 'nice' and he looks at you and when the dog has passed, he sits and you treat him.  it's working for now.  i would never trust him offlead with another dog. if he is walking offlead, I put him on a lead the minute I see another dog no matter how far away.  It would be nice to eventually see if he will walk offlead past another dog but not something i feel able to test at the minute. Hope you get Callia sorted soon x

IMHO you do need to see a behaviourist (they must be modern and reputable with plenty of experience). Reason is because, as I think someone has suggested, you do need to try to discover the cause of the problem. If for instance it is due to fear, this can usually be helped with a lot of classical conditioning, which basically deals with the emotions and helps dogs to start to associate objects of fear with something pleasant.

If by any chance she is more "angry" then this approach may help but you'd also need to do a lot of training, getting her to a very high standard so that even if she can't socialise with other dogs, she is under control and not over stressed because she will be looking to you to guide her as to what you require her to do.

I hope that makes sense :)
Behaviourists will offer different types of help, for example you may find some have stooge dogs (if so, make doubly sure they know exactly what they are doing) and some will offer help such as parallel walking.

Has she had a very thorough vet check?
Occasionally problems such as hypothyroid and even things like stomach ache and dental pain can cause aggression.
I know of a case where a dog was dog aggressive for some years, and when it was later diagnosed with hip dysplasia and given painkillers, the aggression stopped literally overnight. (Actually I think the hip was replaced, but whatever the pain was stopped) So I believe we should never totally rule out a medical problem unless we literally can pinpoint an incident or phase which says "yes this is why this dog is dog aggressive" IYSWIM.

For behaviourists try www.apbc.org.uk and for some trainers who may have a behavioural interest try www.apdt.co.uk

Good luck :)

Thank's everyone ;)

I was toying with the idea of a behaviourist previously but I was quite sure at that time that with a bit more socialisation and everyday experience along with my current training she would calm down to the point of being under control. This was probably somewhat naive of me.

At the moment Lindsay and having watched her behaviour again over the last few days, I would say that she is angry and trying to assert herself with any other being, she does have a tendency to being overprotective, particularly with me :( I have tried repeatedly to discourage it but must still, although unwittingly be giving our the wrong signals.

Funny you should mention the Vet check, back in June I took her along for what I suspected was a UTI and it turned out to be the case, she was given AB's and then she went back in for her spaying op in July, before the op I had her checked out by the Vet who gave a clean bill of health. I did mention her behaviour to him at the time and he suggested that he was quite sure it was behavioural and to go to training classes :rolleyes: Back to square one.

I will now enlist the help of a qualified trainer/behaviourist so that she will be a pleasure to society rather than a menace:rolleyes:

Thanks again for all your advice :)

Yes, a behaviourist would be my advice too.

You might also want to have her checked by a McTimoney chiropractor. Our pyrenees' dog aggression improved drastically once his chiropractor sorted him out. Often vets can't detect minor changes with the joints and bones, but a chiropractor can, and such minor changes can cause quite a bit of pain.

Vera

Hi Vera,

Thank you for your advice.

I understand what you are saying regarding chiropractor, what is a McTimoney chiropractor? As oppose to a regular one?

The reason that I ask is I because I have another Briard (5yrs) who does have well documented spinal probs that may or may not be premature arthritis or a fixed static spinal verterbra and I am researching anything that will help him.

Obviously I will consider this option with Callia as well ;)

Jo

Hi Jo

I have a 4 yr old male GSD who behaves in a similar way, he wasn't socialised until he was 6 months old, his life had been spent in a pen with 2 adult staffies who kept him permanently on his back, his name was 'Roly' when I rescued him. He acts very aggressive when he sees another dog approach him around his neighbourhood. He is the same if he is out on his own or with my other dog, it doesn't make a bit of difference. He goes into crouch mode & starts stalking, he will try & lunge if the other dog reacts & gets too close. Most dogs are terrified of him & do growl through fear. The weird thing is though, that once he has 'put them in there place' he is actually very playful. Many people, including trainers have commenetd on his very unusual behaviour. He just doesn't know how to greet another dog. He is fantastic with my other dog (terrier x) she can & does do anything to him. I compete in agility & he hardly bats an eye at other dogs when we go to shows. When he is away from his home territory, he is fine, he also is very good at training classes which we attend. I don't think he will alter now, but I can manage him, I often wonder why he is like he is. I didn't see either of his parents because I was looking for a rescue, so I have no idea what they were like. He is fantastic with people & kids & does not guard the house or car, he would let anyone in.

Hi Beardy,

First of all let me start by saying that I have learnt my hardest and easiest lessons with GSD's

Too long to go into here, so I will PM you, But suffice to say that with my current breed all of my previous breed knowledge does NOT apply to my current breed:rolleyes: Different buttons need to be pressed.

Jo

You are almost describing my dog. Apart from the way she gets aggressive. She just doesn't know how to greet!!!