We came home today - been out about 4 hours I suppose and found a real mess in the utility room.  This was so unusual - we actually went up to London last week for the day - walked Meg first, son's girlfriend walked her lunchtime and then picked her up after work.  Meg was quite happy - no problem.  But today she had torn the dog gate away from it's fittings, been up on the worktop and windowsill by the back door.  The windows were filthy where she had obviously pawed them.  The back dog handle was gouged with her teeth marks.  Something had really spooked her - so unusual.  My husband told me that I had been too soft on her and was letting her into the house too much - giving her too much of her own way.  My heart sank because I knew this was making her a happy little dog not a spoilt one.  He told me that I should be firm with her (I had already told him that telling her off when we came home was the worst thing he could do!) We sat outside in the sun - I kept Meg on a long lead - just as well.  Someone fired a gun nearby and Meg instantly became a quivering jelly!!  Poor thing - there was me worrying that she had suddenly developed seperation anxiety and it was some idiot firing off a gun.  Don't know what the heck to do to prevent her panicking like this again.  It makes me so cross.  Probabally someone taking a pot shot at a squirrel with no thought of the consequences. 

Poor girl :(

Why not leave the radio on for her as that should help distract from noises outside :)

Poor Meg :(

Could you maybe leave the radio on when you're out to drown out outside noises?

Snap Lucy :)  Great minds and all that, eh?

ceejay,

Are you in the countryside then?   I thought it was illegal to fire a gun anywhere near to houses or any public place (ie place where the public may go) 

No, you can fire a gun on private land as long as you're not shooting over public land or where the public has access. You can target shoot with an airgun in your own garden, for example.

We are on the edge of the town -  we have fields around but only 2 min off the high st.  There is a small bit of woodland nearby but I don't know if that is where the sound came from - it has happened in the past but not recently - usually sends the crows off - but in this case there didn't seem to be any birds around.  Assumed that it was fired up in the air.  Will try to remember to leave a radio on when I go out.  I am afraid that she will hurt herself getting onto the worktops.  Quite a jump from standing I must say.   As for all the stuff that I push to the back to stop her getting hold of it - I need to tidy up a bit.

If it's going to be a regular problem I would seriously consider a DAP diffuser. If you do a search there has been discussions on the board about these several times on the board. You can also get tapes of loud noises that you can use to try to de-sensatise her.

I always leave either the TV or a radio on when I go out. It helps my dogs settle down, unless there's dogs barking on it :)

I use a dap diffuser come firework season.   She had shown some improvement - I have heard thunder in the distance and she has not reacted.  However she was in the house with us at the time.  This all started because someone thoughtlessly let off a very big firework for a birthday celebration a few doors away.  Everyone jumped at the time it was so loud.  I think it will be better to look at desensitizing (spelling??) as an option.  Using dap diffusers as a full time thing is going to be more expensive I think.  Noises on the TV or radio also get her barking and looking outside to see where it comes from - especially whistles!!  Well off to Tesco's now so better try the radio.

OH dear this is more complicated then I first thought.  I put her into the utility room as usual and gave her a stuffed kong to keep her busy.  I turned the radio on (left it on classical??) and got ready to leave.  Meg started to cry and obviously was ignoring her kong.  Not a normal reaction.  I left but just went up to the post office and back.  She was in her basket when I got back but had been up on the windowsill again - there's not much space for a collie on there believe me.  I made about my business and then put her away again and left for Tesco's.  Her basket had been pushed along the floor but other than that she hadn't done much.  She had not chewed her kong - she took it outside with her.
So I have been thinking of her behaviour over the last view days.  We came home to her basket being moved before.  At night she has cried when she has been put to bed.  Because my husband had let her out last thing I assumed that she had not gone to the toilet and put her on the lead and took her out.  When she cried the next night I did the same.  Thinking back she did looked stressed not - just grumbling to have her own way.  Last night I put her to bed - watched her in the garden and then closed the door on her and let her cry.  I did not think the two were connected.  Now I am not sure.  The only reason I can think of was that we left her for an unusually long time on Thurs.  We walked her first thing and left at 7.  It was quite a long stretch until she was taken out at lunchtime.  Then she was left again until just gone 5. 
Of to get a refill for the Dap this afternoon.

Ceejay I really do hope the problem is going to be helped with the DAP - as you know they are a real help. Whatever happens, you must ensure hubby does not react to her if she makes a mess because that will only compound the problem.She isn't being "bad" or "naughty" as you know :) and if he tells her off it will literally make her worse.

I'd ensure that when you go out at all she is very unlikely to be disturbed by noises, def. keep that DAP on.

Fingers crossed for you and of course, Meg ...

Lindsay
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It may be worth asking the local farmer if he has a bird scarer (Sound very much like shotguns) and if so if he would mind positioning it  in another direction. Poor Meg

I'd not get upset about the gun because it sounds like it was fireworks that set off this fear....  I think the dogs can cope better with the gun shot if they have not been terrified before by the non stop explosives.  The fireworks explosives are so bad now because of all the sounds and the visual impact and the relentlessness of it all.  there us nothing to stop this noise and already fireworks are going off at any time of the day or night so we all have to live with this now until after the New Year..at least round me that's when the noise seems to calm down. 



For us one of those mortar bomb fireworks that explode into a ball of sparks that fill the whole sky went off almost in our faces one evening at about 6pm when I opened my front door to let out my pups ..it was this time of year and it was all quite out there until we opened the door stepped out into the darkness and the explosion went off and it was so loud as the sound is always magnified by the valley we live in and so bright we couldn't see I screamed with shock . In the morning I found part of the firework less than 5 m from my front door.   My dog is terrified of the bangs and even when he sees birds in the sky for a while he was terrified something was going to explode and he is scared of the dark. His terror well t is beyond training. I've done what I can so for distance gun shots I can distract him but he isn't comfortable and the last walk in the country there were so many gun shots around when we got home he was sick all night.  Before that firework terrified him I had taken them to country shows and taught them to be very good with gun shots  and all that was lost so quickly! 

I'm not sure what is fun about fireworks when they cause so much suffering... if this isn't animal cruelty what is.  It is terrible. And after the fireworks dogs like your Meg and mine they are terrified of bangs of thunder and gun shots.

It could be Meg is associating the fear of the bang with something connected with you being out when it happened.  Like my dog he sees birds and he reacts with fear because fireworks came from the sky and in the day birds are in the sky and so even if he just  hears seagulls even on TV and he reacts with fear!  You left Meg and there were gun shots and Meg went into a terrible panic... she may well connect the panic with being left and the ongoing panic rather than with the gun shot.

My only suggestion I think is to retrain the separation as you would with a pup. Act like she is to b e left. Leave... then walk back in ignoring her then after a bit praise.. then repeat. And then leave for different lengths of time some short some say 30 seconds some 60 and so on making it not a big deal and ignoring her each time you get back in.

When you hear bangs do not react to them...not even to look at Meg so you don't give her and indication that reinforces the idea this fear is justified. Mine is never going to be comfortable with bangs so he has to learn to live with it and just go hide in a corner.

The daff diffuser can help and there are also herbal pills that can help take the edge of the fear and I give mine some to build up to firework season just to try to help.  I also let the dog find his own place in the house whee he can feel more secure which is normally in a dark corner behind the sofa.  Anyway good luck. I agree she is just petrified and not spoilt or naughty. Well I am dreading firework season.  Horrible time of year. 

We have fireworks going off day and night around here all year round.  One of mine gets all of a dither trying to find where the noise is coming from to see it off, the rest ignore it after the first few volleys.  I am so glad I no longer have my first dog of another breed who would be a nervous wreck for weeks after bonfire night.

Have got the dap refill in place - haven't used it since last year - must admit the fireworks have been greatly reduced.  We have 2 big hotels within a few miles both very popular with weddings and parties.  Previous years there were fireworks every weekend.  Not so this summer - nothing.  Even Cardiff haven't had the really big firework displays - I used to imagine it was like the bombs going off in wartime - but fair play I haven't heard fireworks since last New Years Eve.  My sister brought up a new idea - she said that when she had her dog she also panicked because she wanted to vomit and she couldn't get outside to do it.  Well I think Meg might have wet the floor - it was difficult to tell because she had spilt her water too.  However that would not now lead to her getting stressed when she is shut in would it?
  We sat out the front tonight (what a lovely evening) and closed the front door to stop her joining us and woofing to disturb the neighbours who may have gone to bed.  I found Meg coming down the stairs - she had clearly wanted to get out to join us ( she is convinced there is a way out upstairs!)  However with the door left open she was quite happy to remain lying in the hallway.  Complicated I think.  If only dogs could talk.
Oh and the vets told me that they have brought out a dap collar now - anyone heard or tried that?  I have also put calming drops on her food - valerian based.  She has had an extra long walk today and a swim in a river so lets see if she cries tonight when she goes to bed. 

She mumbled for a little while on and off last night for about quarter of an hour but tomorrow is going to be the test.  Wales are playing and we will be out for a few hours - will worry all the time.  Wales had better win and make it all worth it.  Poor dog.  Well she is in kennels next week for 4 nights so hope that she forgets this. (Wales are playing away in Slovakia)

Well she wasn't too bad.  Had a bowl with some scraps to give her when we left.  She over turned the bowl with the remains of the food scattered over the floor but it didn't look as if she had jumped up on the work top and window sill again.  However there are some pretty deep grooves in the kitchen door.   I took her for a walk and when it came to bedtime she only cried a little.  Let's hope this dies down a bit - she was so good before - so relaxed at being left it is really upsetting to see her being made unhappy by this.  She is off having a nice walk down the beach now - wish that was me but I have too much to do before leaving tomorrow.  Shouldn't be  spending time on here either.

Glad to read she's a bit better, it's a worry isn't it :)
Probably giving her walks and tiring her out a bit is one of the best things you can do.

Lindsay
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