I've had a lovely day out today with my eldest daughter Alex. We went to the Glendale Show, up here in Northumberland. We watched the Companion Dog Show, and wished we'd taken one of ours to paticipate. However the best part was seeing the West Percy Hunt presenting a meet and greet.

The hounds galloped around the arena to the sound of the Masters hunting horn. Then the comentator invited any members of the public that wanted to meet the hounds to go into the ring. There must have been 150 people, mostly children, and the hounds were impeccably behaved. Children milling about, petting the hounds, giving hugs and through all this the hounds were brilliant. I was very impressed. Considering these are not pets, they were amazing. I loved them.

Dawn R.

Pack hounds truly are the best-behaved dogs (sorry, hounds ;)) I've ever come across.

Blooming henry, and people are so scared of letting kids near one dog and think every dog is liable to kill any child that goes near!!!!
Just goes to show that dogs arnt all as bad of that :) :)
I bet that was an excellant site to see, wish I had been there, I would have been the first in the ring, very very closely follwed by my 2 kids LOL
Lea :)

That's what I love about the Hound Association Ch show.  They have a parade of pack hounds and they compete for the best turned out pack.  They have all breeds - foxhounds, staghounds, trail hounds, bloodhounds, basset packs, PBGV packs, otterhounds - it's fabulous.  When the best turned out has been judged you get to go in amongst them and have a cuddle :d

Debs

And all the packs can mix together without trouble. Temperaments are brilliant. :)

I wrote this last year, after the Orsett Show:-

Commentators - wonderful rich voices, redolent of a long-ago age
Advising in time honoured way the Next Event.
In the Main Ring - Dingle the Clown and and his car
in the Next the Essex Farmers Hunt Complete with Foxhounds and Bassets.
Dingle the Clown strives hard for audience participation
In the next ring, hounds disappear from view as the audience are invited in
To talk to the Huntsmen and pat the hounds.

Which will be remembered by the young generation?
Will they remember the Clown and his Clownwatch?
Or will they remember, one day in the future, that they patted one
Of the last Foxhounds in the country?

Are the times a-changing?

now my old friend Pat C. has left can you tell me whose hunting them now?

That is why the recent thing of the pack killing an elderly terrier is not typical of the temperament and behaviour, and was probably a case of mistaken identity on the packs part.

Tragic for the owner (but at least he had a long 14 years), and the Hunt did compensate her which is all they could do.  Why do people always think a dog on dog or dog livestock incident would have any relationship with potential to harm human beings?

I have always found them super, though one year at Hound show when I went up by coach one did try to get into the coach until it realised it's mistake.

Yes, they do have good temperaments and it is a pleasure to see.  But let's face it - if one of them showed aggression, they wouldn't be bringing a behaviourist in!

Absolutely! And the proof of the worth of that course of action is clear! :)

But, JG, it would not go down well in the world of pet dogs.

Perhaps that's why there are apparently so many aggressive pet dogs? Just a thought.

Yes, I'm quite sure that is why.  Because we keep them.  Are you honestly advocating culling them?

Preferably before birth by not breeding from their parents, and also yes if a dog is not fit for society it is better to be PTS rather than both it and it's carers living a restrictive life.

>if a dog is not fit for society it is better to be PTS rather than both it and it's carers living a restrictive life.<

How do you define "not fit for society"?

And how many people on here have taken on and live with dogs with aggression problems and need to use "restriction" in order to manage those problems?

People often let their hearts rule their heads (and I can be as guilty as the next person ;)) even when they know it's not necessarily the best thing to do.

I know.  I think I am less sentimental than most but would stop well short of a hunt's zero tolerance policy.  It's all very well to admire the behaviour of hounds but there is simply no comparison between a dog bred for purpose and the difficulties companion animals can have in learning to live with us.

I suppose everyone has their own limit as to how many dogs/people a dog can attack before it's deemed not fit for society.

Remember, companion animals were also 'bred for purpose' - their purpose is to be friendly. If they're not ...

After all if Hounds who live in kennels and not in our homes (though they are puppy walked) can be sensible around people, cope with crowds etc, and ordinary dogs often cannot maybe zero tolerance is where we have to go, or pretty soon our rights to own and enjoy our dogs will be curtailed where they will not be acceptable in public places unless leashed an muzzled, if at all.

My own Father thinks dogs should be kept on the owners property and if they don't own land they shouldn't keep them!  Bit extreme but he isn't the only owner who is intolerant.

Good temperament comes very high on their breeders' list of essentials. Random-bred dogs and those bred purely for looks rather than purpose are more likely to fail in this department, and maybe more of a zero-tolerance attitude is needed if we're to avoid a tabloid-fed hysterical campaign against dog keeping.

To reduce the question to "how many dogs/people a dog can attack before ..."  is to oversimplify.  It would be clear to most sensible people that the animal you have in mind is not fit to be kept as a pet.  And I have seen the benefits of a "no aggression" policy in the world's poorer countries, where the mutt hanging round with the children would be shot if it showed any aggression.

But, for example, how many people keep dogs that are not "good with children"?  Indeed, how can people produce a dog guaranteed to be "good with children" if they do not have young children or regular access to same?  Should dogs who growl at children be culled?  Should we empty the rescue kennels?

IMHO very few companion animals were actually "bred for purpose" - they were nearly all created with something else in mind.

Friendly is a big word.  What if they're not friendly with the postman, friendly with people of a different ethnic background, friendly with primary school children, friendly with toddlers, friendly with babies, friendly with cats, friendly with guinea pigs, friendly with horses, friendly with people in wheelchairs, friendly with joggers, friendly with cyclists ... the behaviour board tells us it's not easy to cover all the bases.  So if they're not ...

>Indeed, how can people produce a dog guaranteed to be "good with children" if they do not have young children or regular access to same?

For the answer to that you'd need to ask the hunt kennel staff, because there are very few children at a hunt kennel and yet the hounds have sound temperaments. You don't see foxhounds being socialised in the town centre and ouside schools! It must be down to breeding and the zero-tolerance of dodginess.

>IMHO very few companion animals were actually "bred for purpose" - they were nearly all created with something else in mind.

Money? The vast majority of pups are bred entirely with the pet market in mind.

We are in agreement that any element of aggression towards children in hounds would not be tolerated, thus leaving only hounds with sound dog/human temperaments.  But you didn't say whether pet dogs that growl at children should be dealt with equally finally?

A certain hunt doesn't seem to be able to deal with aggression towards terriers - which would be called dog to dog aggression if one of ours did it.  Not very friendly.

Yes, I'm sure you're right about money.  But I am saying that the vast majority of breeds were created with something other than companionship in mind and that's one of the reasons that there may be more problems with bored pet dogs, unable to find suitable outlets for their instincts eg collie types.

>But you didn't say whether pet dogs that growl at children should be dealt with equally finally?

Growling, probably not. Attacking is another matter.

>A certain hunt doesn't seem to be able to deal with aggression towards terriers

As far as I've read, this was a one-off situation and not a general reaction to all terriers - and the hound responsible was immediately destroyed. Zero tolerance again.

I think the boredom you mention is a very important factor. Very many pet dogs live lives of many hours of isolation from both their own kind and their owners. This unnatural situation must cause great mental stress which could well be a factor in the behavioural problems that are so common nowadays. The 21st-century human lifestyle just doesn't suit them.

Yes, "attacking" is another matter.  But my point was that we will (albeit reluctantly and with every effort to put it right) tolerate things in our pet dogs that the hunt are willing and able to rule out.  Therefore it should not be surprising that the behaviour of hounds at a show is better than that of some pet dogs.  Horses for courses, I think.

I hadn't heard that the hound was destroyed but believe that to be the right course of action.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

Yes but those PET DOGS SHOULD NOT BE BRED FROM BUT OFTEN ARE the hunt kennels choose only the best ones to breed from, including temperament, and even then the odd one turns up with unacceptable traits, but these will not be allowed to be passed on.

Often people are less negative about the Pet litter bred naively compared to those puppy farmed, but as regards the good of dogs overall and not the individual breeding stock the naive pet owner causes as much or more harm, excusing faults in their precious and lack of health testing.

A lady whose son went to my sons primary school has two Samoyeds (poor quality) and bred a litter and sold them for £650 and when some buyers asked about hip scores she told them she was breeding from her pets so all that didn't apply to her!!!  Previously she had a pair of CKCS spaniels.  she had a couple of litters from them reared with loving care and couldn't (and many people would agree with her) what was wrong with breeding in such a haphazard fashion.  Her output was small, but there are thousands of such litters and they do impact the breeds as a whole..

Hope the capitals were not aimed at me Brainless.  I quite agree these dogs should not be bred from.

No they were for emphasis. :)

I have to say Barbara, the fact that he'd had a long 14 years would only have traumatised me more, seeing a poor old pensioner coming to such an end and not being able to do anything to help. I would have been absolutely distraught and would not have been listening to reason on it either.

M.

I must admit after my initial sadness I was pleased to see that the dog had lived a good long happy life, adn was possibly near the end of it when this tragedy occured.  I am sure that in tiem his owner will also e glad he had lived a long life and not ahd it cut short at a young age.

My first dog died young when she escaped from the garden age 3 1/2, and my second I took to be Put to sleep at 13 1/2.

I know that if the 13 1/2 year old ahd died in the first circumstances I woudl ahve felt that at elast she ahd had a logn life, but the first was cut off in her prime.

For the answer to that you'd need to ask the hunt kennel staff, because there are very few children at a hunt kennel and yet the hounds have sound temperaments. You don't see foxhounds being socialised in the town centre and ouside schools! It must be down to breeding and the zero-tolerance of dodginess

Hounds are very well socialised with children, other dogs, horses, sheep , cattle.

That is what "Puppy walkers" do....Hound puppies are put into normal rural homes,  from around 10 wks old,  they live with families full of children, pet dogs, and other animals,  they will stay with these families experiencing all aspects of family life.

They will stay ther till around 6/7 mths old or till the wander lust kicks in,  (which ever comes first)

There is nothing so cute as a "couple"  (they usually go in couples),  of hound pups, or as naughty for that matter.

>Hound puppies are put into normal rural homes,  from around 10 wks old,  they live with families full of children, pet dogs, and other animals,  they will stay with these families experiencing all aspects of family life.

Not always. Many of the walkers don't have children, and they certainly don't take the youngsters around town as pet dogs are. In general pet dogs have more access to 'normal' life than hounds, and yet still the hounds are better behaved ... perhaps it's down to the quality of the training or the lack of isolation.

Hounds are put into carefully selected homes, people who are knowledgable about them and hunting life. They meet whatever animals are on the farm, and horses, the other dogs and cats if kept by the walker, there are usually children either their own or grandchildren. They usually are kenneled though, either a stable or whatever, they are well handled but treated as a working hound not a pet. They can be seen led round the village, or country lanes, the people chosen to have them are quite proud to be allowed to have them, and the hunt has a 'puppy walkers' show after hounds have returned, which everyone loves. Foxhounds have the most wonderful natures, they have to be well behaved to live together as they do, I cannot imagine some pet dogs living and sharing a kennels area in the same way without fights. They are exceptionally well trained, as a pack animal they have their pack for company, receive the best of food, plenty of exercise, are bred for only the right reasons and their heritage is superb, the hunt staff that care for them are a dedicated bunch.

I realised that, but as you said this is only for 6 months or so.

How many Pet dogs of over that age are still a problem, it is rarely pups that show bad temper.  so the Pet dogs with the benefit of more socialisation ought to be completely above reproach if it's character is anything as reliable as the Foxhound's.