Hello

Couple of quick eligibility questions.  If you have entered a Novice class at a forthcoming breed open show but then between making the entry and the actual show date win 3 or more first prizes what should you do?  Also does this mean first prizes in breed classes only or does it also include AV, AVNSC, Stakes etc.

I am correct in that Special Beginners is different to Beginners the first meaning dog, handler, owner not having won a CC and the latter meaning not having won a first prize at Champ/Open shows.

Just when you think you have the rules sorted in your head another one presents itself!! LOL

Thanks

Vicky x

When calculating the amount of awards won and eligability for classes then you count all awards up to 7 days before the closing date for entries.

AV or AVNSC doesn't count when calculating breed classes but does count when entering variety classes.

And yes, you're right about special beginners - not sure about beginners class though.  I've never seen one that isn't 'special'.

Debs

Worth always checking about Special Beginners as it can be different with different society's so double check the schedule! ;)

It is always a good idea each and every time you make entries to check the definition of classes you are entering, printed in every schedule.

I very nearly got caught out with the definition of Post Graduate.  The eligibility is not having won five or more Post Graduate or higher classes at championship shows.  It does not say which a lot of people think it means at championship shows with CC's on offer for the breed.  If like me you are in a numerically small breed that does not have CC's at all championship shows this is important.

For Limit and Open on the other hand it is wins in classes at championship shows with CC's on offer.

Thanks so much for all your help it's appreciated.

Right we've now got AV and AVNSC sorted and to a degree the class eligibility - roll on the next rule I don't understand - lol  I'm sure there will be lots more.

Vicky x

Barbara I'm not sure what you mean - are you refering to breed or AV classes? and Ch or Open shows?

The definition for a Ch show Post Grad breed class is -

"For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or five or more first prizes at Championship shows in Post Graduate, Minor Limit, Mid Limit, Limit and Open classes, whether restricted or not"

But, if you read the rest of the clauses in the schedule, it states that -

Wins at Championship shows in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are not on offer shall be counted as wins at Open shows"

Therefore I think I'm right in saying that you can go in Post Grad with CCs on offer even if you have won 10 post grad classes at Ch shows without CCs.  When I was showing a rare breed it was impossible to actually win out of post grad.

Debs

Actually there are rare breed/import dogs that are not eligible for Post Graduate, Mid limit etc & those are dogs that have awards that count towards a championship under any governing body recognised by the KC-ERGO dogs that are champions or have won CAC/winners etc under FCI/AKC etc rules than these dogs are treated as if they have won CC's under KC rules

No that is not so as I checked at a recent championship show.  It is wins in Post graduate or above (and CC's of course that count you out of Post Graduate. 

Non CC show wins do count as Open show wins, but the def for PG at champ shows is regardless of CC status, as it is only in the next classes that the def also includes at cha shows with CC's on offer for the breed where as PG just says Champ shows.

I see what you're saying Barbara now that they've changed the KC Specimen Schedules but if you look at that link you'll see that they STILL have the clause that all wins at Ch show where CCs are not on offer are counted as open shows.

Maybe this is one of those things that someone should get in writing from the KC just to clarify?

Debs

What I posted is straight from the 2007/2008 Red Book-some of the changes do not come in until 2008 of course, but they do not apply to Post Graduate. However if you know better then it's ok by me

Moonmaiden I understood your point completely :) However my last post was in reply to Brainless ;)

Debs

Yes but the classs definitions even at Open shows are still based on wins at championship shows, so you coudl stay forever in Post Graduate at open shows, but once you have won five classes (or CC's or points towards at title of course wherever) then you are out of PG.

It must bve correct else why have the def say at champ shows for PG, but at champ shows with CC''s for the higher ones.

I could see how a rare breed might stay in Limit forever but not post graduate.

Yeah Barbara the last wording of the definition (where CCs are on offer for the breed) is what's changed.  However I still don't understand why they've kept the 'wins at Ch shows where CCs are not on offer shall be counted as wins at open shows' is still there if it doesn't apply any more?

Debs

Well that applies to Junior Warrants I expect.  I didn't think the definition ahd changed as it ahs been that way for at least five or more years when I nearly mad the mistake enterign Kizi in POost gGraduate but double checkign realised she was ineligible, and she is 10 this year.

A fairly new exhibitor had won a few PG at non Cc shows and we checked up for him and he was no longer eligible and had to transfer to Open.

I wonder if they can make it any MORE confusing? LOL

Debs

Unless it went abroad say to Ireland & won a green star