Hi everyone,  yesterday I bumped into a lond term friend who has shown and breed for many years.  They have raised several litters and raised 4 children.  She told me about her daughter who despite a strong warning from her, went to find a puppy in the classifieds and answered a advert for puppies in the paper.  The gentleman on the phone, told her that due to the long journey and the fact that she didnt drive that he would meet her in the train station car park with the puppy, and that he would do it for free.  When they met, he demanded £20 for petrol and £80 for the puppy and shoved to poor little mite in her arms and took off.  The puppy was cold, wet and skinny.  They bought him home and with some TLC gradually brightened up.  Within 3 days however a large bulge began to appear in his head and he started bumping into things.  They took him to the vet trough the RSPCA, the vet told them that the wound was due to the puppy having been hit over to head several times.   It was touch and go.  The bulge basically exploded leaving him with a large hole in his head, full of infection.  He had never been wormed, had a stomach infection, was riddled with fleas and had mange.  Luckily the RSPCA picked up some of the bill although they have paid as much as they could afford.  There has been investigations but the classified ad paper has said that because it has been posted online they couldn't trace the seller.  How did he pay then by a fake card!!  As all of you will know that when you sell online you have to fill in a registration form. And I know that with this particluar paper you have to ring to confirm you identity first when doing any pet ad.

So far though this little chap, has pulled though and although weak, he still manges to have a little play and keep up his spirits.  

It just makes my blood boil.

as appalling as this story is....and it truly is.....one has to ask....why would someone go out and buy a puppy that they knew they couldnt adfford vets fees for if it became il!!!

So this daughter was brought up in a decent environment, where dogs are bred in a nice way. Why would she think that people would do otherwise? :( As we all know, unfortunately, pups are bred by people who don't care. It's easier to turn round and condemn the buyer when the seller is the one to be angry at. The daughter should have known better, but we all learn by our mistakes. I bet she doesn't buy a puppy this way again. I bet it didn't come with papers, so no chance of 6 weeks free insurance either.

As to the pup let's hope that it doesn't have any long term problems because of its horrid early start to life.

i think you are missing the point.....regardless of where she bought the pup....be it this horrendous place or the best breeder in england....why would you buy a pup if you KNEW that you couldnt afford vet fees thats what i cant understand!

The thing is, if she had been brought up alongside fit, healthy pups, why would she think that this one would be any different? Ok, we all know that you will end up at the vets with something wrong at some point in the pups life, but surely that's why we pay for insurance? Paying a few quid each month is a whole lot easier than a few hundred (or thousand ) within the first few weeks of a pups life. The last time I was at a vet for non breeding related problems the bill was only a few quid (plus the consultation fee ;) ) The time before that was for a broken toe. Neither cost a fortune, but the money was there when needed. No-one expects to pay out a fortune during the first few weeks of a pups life.

You're still missing Sam's point. ;) Cprice said:

>Luckily the RSPCA picked up some of the bill although they have paid as much as they could afford.

The RSPCA wouldn't have got involved if the people weren't on benefits - in which circumstances why look for a puppy in the first place? Why not wait until they were in a more secure financial situation before adding to their expenses unnecessarily?

Why not wait until they were in a more secure financial situation before adding to their expenses unnecessarily?

I understand your reasoning JG but it is a bit black and white.  It's a bit like saying to people wanting a baby not to have one if they can't afford it :)

There are many people who'd agree that people should wait until their circumstances are right before having a baby too. :) But we're not talking about a baby, where you have limited time available for conception. We're talking about a commodity with no shortage of supply - there'll be plenty available in the future. Unfortunately saving up and waiting are deeply unfashionable in today's 'Now, now, now' society. :(

Unfortunately saving up and waiting are deeply unfashionable in today's 'Now, now, now' society. 

I do agree with you, but everyone is different !

So I shouldn't have either dogs or kids then ;) I am now living on Income Support due to a change in my circumstances. (I'm seeing the cardiologist in October for the results of tests) Because I am on benefit I can't afford large sums of money for vet bills. I have 3 kids, 2 grandkids, 4 dogs and a cat. I wouldn't give any of them up for anything. I find the money for vets bills somewhere. My vets are quite good at letting me pay what I can when I can, so long as they get their money in the end they are happy. As I said, I do not expect large bills, but am prepared if there are any. Why should I, or anybody, be deprived of the love of a pet just because they might need to visit the vet a lot for whatever reason.

We do not know all of the circumstances in this case. Perhaps the daughter, once the puppy was in her hands, decided that it would be better to do something for the puppy, rather than let it go back to someone as callous as the 'owner/breeder'. At least she got help for it.

Lindylou you should have both :)

As I said everyone is different, and if I wanted something like children or dogs, then I don't think I'd be thinking can I afford them!

I think the girl who had this puppy has actually given it a chance :)

Nobody can forsee a sudden change in circumstances and I don't think that this was at all the sort of thing that the comments were about :) However, I cannot see that any caring person would take on any pet knowing that they wouldn't be able to afford to provide veterinary care should it be needed :(

Daisy

However, I cannot see that any caring person would take on any pet knowing that they wouldn't be able to afford to provide veterinary care should it be needed 

I guess it is a case of heart ruling head, and in my experience heart usually wins. 

>I guess it is a case of heart ruling head, and in my experience heart usually wins.

That's what puppy farmers rely on. :( Buying from them not only condones, it actively encourages cruelty.

Changes in circumstances - redundancy, accident, illness, bereavement - are unforeseeable, and can happen to anyone. Charities such as the RSPCA and PDSA are there to help so that people can maintain the care of their existing pets, so that they don't have to give them up. That's why the charities ask for evidence of low income, so that people who could afford a vet don't take them for a ride. Taking on new animals when you can't afford it isn't a wise course of action, and is in some ways taking advantage of the charities' donors.

The daughter in this case actively went looking for a puppy; it's not as if it was an emergency 'rescue'.

would you buy a pup if you KNEW that you couldnt afford vet fees

I think that, when you first buy a puppy, you don't expect to be faced with vets bills that can reach £1,000 or more! Its a shame that ins wasn't provided, I don't think they would have had time between purchase and the pup being ill to have arranged cover that would have protected the bill side of things. if the majority of people who bought a pup thought they may be paying huge bills within the first few weeks they may think again, regardless of their income. Fourtunatly the rspca have helped in this case, but it is such a shame the irresponsible paper it was advertised in couldnt help with enqs to allow this awful person to be traced. :(

Sorry don't understand your reasoning - if you can't afford the bills when the pup is small, why should you be any more able to afford them in a few months/years time ???

Daisy

Sorry don't understand your reasoning - if you can't afford the bills when the pup is small, why should you be any more able to afford them in a few months/years time

because by the time the pup is a bit older, the Ins would chip in, is it about 4 weeks or something? I know accidents can happen, pups can get ill from all sorts of things but thats not an expected thing to happen, well maybe it is, thats why breeders have puppy ins, :) but I don't think most people when first buying a puppy expect huge vets bills in the first few weeks.

No - but then most people (at least on here :) ) buy from a breeder that gives puppy ins. (and will take the puppy back if unhealthy) and will arrange their own after that runs out OR will just arrange their own anyway OR will recognise that bills may start at any age :) This person obviously didn't think about any of this :( :( :(

Daisy

I see what you mean, but not everyone thinks the same, and will expect no huge bills before the insurance kicks in. Some people make mistakes, many of us have to learn the hard way. The person may not have thought of all this, but again I don't see that huge bills are to be expected in one so young, thats something more experienced people may think of. if there is any fault I feel it lies firmly with the breeder, and the paper for not allowing an enq into them, not the person who bought the puppy. but there you go, just my opinion.I would expect there are a lot of people out there with all sorts of animals that wouldn't expect huge bills, and wouldnt know how to pay them, but that dosent make them bad owners. If we all worried about not being able to pay bills we wouldnt have animals, because at the end of the day no one knows what the future holds. Thats what ins is there for. Even people on here can be hoodwinked by bad breeders, and face huge vet bills it happens in all walks of life. In here we are a tiny minority of the dog buying/breeding public. You only have to look on the breeding ad sites on CD to see not everyone from there posts on here. and thats not everyone either. many on here have said they don't have ins, and the way they pay their vet bills is either to save a bit each month or have an arrangement with their vet re paying, or both, but the dog would have to be a bit older than a few weeks to have enough in the kitty.
Anyway, enough from me for now, more painting to do ...groans....ceilings uck ;)

How very sad
It does make me mad knowing there are people out there that sell pups with no care of the dogs welfare and health.
These sort of people need to be stopped somehow and people searching for a puppy or dog need to be educated more.

How do these people get away with it.  And yes, the daughter should have known better - trouble is, I think, people are ignorant and just get carried away.

Some people are ignorant that's true, but even if they are not,.... when faced with such a sad little puppy one has to ask, who among us would of said no??? Some years ago I begged a dealer for the manged, flea ridden, malnourished 10 month old Lurcher that he had. He cost me £25.00 in 1980 and then I spent a fortune on it once he was mine. I'd gladly bet a weeks wages on the fact that I'm not the only member of CD that's been or will be so foolhardy, and I for one, don't regret a thing.

Here's hopeing the poor little thing becomes the best dog they ever own just like my digger.

How very sad, here is hoping the puppy makes a complete and speedy recovery - I do think I understand why this girl did this, as spiritulist said, who would say no if they could help stop the suffering of such a tiny pup?
Maria

The trouble is that every time some rotter sells a puppy this way and in such dreadful ill-health he's encouraged to do it again. And again. By all means take the pup off the man but don't give him money. It'll only stop when everybody refuses to keep them in business. Hard, but essential.

This is a terrible story. Poor pup.

It seems that when it comes to things like puppy dealers and the general animal neglect/cruelty related to it, it's very hard to know what action to take. We could save the animal's life by buying it but actively encourage more cruelty by doing so. On the other hand if we refuse to take the animal, judging by the lack of care shown for the animal's welfare it could be in for a brutal death in the short term (when it becomes not cute and small enough to sell) or even if it is not killed either by neglect, disease or on purpose it could be condemned to a life of being nothing but a breeding machine or a punching bag. We shouldn't buy puppies like this as it encourages more but there will always be people out there misguided enough to buy them. It's a horrible lose-lose situation.

I agree, there will always be someone out there willing to buy from these people!!

Better that it was someone who cared enough to seek out treatment for the poor little mite!

The stories i have heard through our rescue of the cruelty some of these dogs suffer makes me very sad and if it was me i would have taken the pup too!!:rolleyes:

Wishing the little mite all the luck for a happy healthy future!

The stories i have heard through our rescue of the cruelty some of these dogs suffer makes me very sad and if it was me i would have taken the pup too!!

My sentiments exactly!  We know we shouldn't but faced with saving a pups or even adult dogs life, I'd take it too!

And yes, I can see all the reasons about not buying from a puppy farmer, and I wouldn't set out to do that, but faced with saving a dogs life, there is no question - I'd save it every time. 

No matter what we do there will always be these back street breeders, my first dog was from one of these, albeit in disguise.  He was absolutley gorgeous,  had a wonderful temperatment, but suffered with terrible hip problems, the breeder didn't want to know when I rang and emailed her on numerous occasions, jus didn't bother to get back to me.  This is an accredited breeder too But, I don't regret for one minute having Spangler, he was the most gorgeous loving dog ever - he gave us so much and I did learn from him :)  And I know if we hadn't had him, then whoever else did would probably have had him pts before he was 6 months old because of his H/D :(  Thank god we gave him a chance.

>faced with saving a dogs life, there is no question

Even knowing what you know now? That it means condemning another bitch to have another litter to go through the same hell? Could you bring yourself to do it?

>No matter what we do there will always be these back street breeders,

Only because people pay them to carry on ...

Even knowing what you know now? That it means condemning another bitch to have another litter to go through the same hell? Could you bring yourself to do it

I wouldn't actively seek a dog from a puppy farm, and I have never done that.  But, if one needed a home and I was able to give it a chance then yes I would take it in.  Not sure I would pay though :rolleyes:

I wouldn't actively seek a dog from a puppy farm,

No, but the treatment you received was from someone who is no better than a puppy farm/producer, and now that person is an AB  :( ..........and this line Spangler came from is continuing. :(

I can remember Digger from the early/mid eighties - Spritulist lived a few doors away from me then !  I remember he could jump over high fences !
Saluki type lurcher.

Pam

Well,sad as it is and I dearly hope this poor pup is going to be ok,we all get carried away and somtimes do things that,if only you had stopped to think about it,you wouldn't.
Was she quite young?
It actually made me think about myself,when at aged19, I decided to take a dog who was  cross pitball,mastiff something called,tyson(of course)white, black patch over one eye,completely mad.I worked long hours,5 days a week,what was I thinking? I knew nothing about the dog,picked him up,drove to my sisters house,and he bit me and slammed my head against the wall,and he was only playing.I was lucky,if I hadn't of raised my arm,it would of been my face.I had him for a total of 4 hours and then took him back to the people I got him from,crying my eyes out as I couldn't handle him.
I look back and see all the obvious reasons why I never should of got myself into that situation,but I did.Almost 20 years on ,I think about that day,and wonder why I was so stupid.
I think this is called 'growing up'
Ash

I know what you mean, some years ago, I'd decided to get a kitten, I bought everything possible for it and was well prepared. But because of the great efforts of the cat charities with their neutering schemes (which I think is brilliant) finding a kitten was really hard. After a year of waiting, I finally saw some moggy kittens advertised, so rushed over and collected my sneezing, weak, thin, flea ridden little moggy - purely because I felt so sorry for it. I got my (incredibly sensible) friend round to see the kitten who was absolutely horrified and clipped me round the ear and put us both straight back in the car and took the kitten back to where I'd got him from, informing the 'breeder' of exactly how sick the kitten was. I sobbed the whole way! But I'm so glad now that my friend did that - she probably saved me from many years of heartache and vets bills. My heart ruled my head that day, even though I get so angry when people buy puppies in the same way and I was so cross with myself for getting that kitten. I agree it is the 'I want one and I want one NOW' mentality that is the problem.
I hope that poor puppy will be o.k :(

Im Sure many people think"i want to get a dog"
I was one of these people and after having a mongrel bitch for 16 years (bought from Batersea dogs home) I decided to go to another home and ended up at a RSPCA resue centre in Waltham Abbey
they told me that this particular male cocker spaniel wanted to be the only dog in the family and lived with another female cocker.
He was 7 years old
we took him home and 7 months later returned him.
they said he had cocker rage and whilst crying my eyes out he was pts.
Thought i was doing a good thing taking on a rescue dog
I gave him a great loving home, spoiled him rotton and he cost me over £800 inc vets bills in only 7 months.

Still upset bought a dog from loot.com
who'd have thought this was even a bigger mistake
Phone the breeder, asked lots of questions, visited her home, saw the two pups 4 sale, went back with my daughter (16Yrs) and husband
and bought him Sat morning
by lunchtime he was sick, by tea time he was fittingTook him to emergency vet and he was put on a life support machine
after 2 weeks of no change and a bill over £600 he was pts
was given a refund by the breeder for the pup but nothing towards the vets

Third time lucky
disenfected house from top to botom 3 times
waited 3 months
phone a breeder from the southern border collie club
went to visit the pups
met both thier parents
was told they come with 6 weeks free insurance, eye checked and hip scored
asked if i paid for jabs and then collected pup after all was well and it was agreed
My boy is now nearly 2 years

Cant believe what i went through - who is there to guide usI suppose even more tempting when you are offered a dog very cheap

Well, i made a couple of mistakesit can still happen to anyone and im sure it does time and time again

Helen

>was told they come with 6 weeks free insurance, eye checked and hip scored

You mean the parents were hip-scored. ;) Puppies are never hip-scored - it can't be done before 12 months of age.

Sorry
Yes both parents were hip scored
Helen

and did anyone see the anne widdecombe programme last night? No idea wht its called but she is out trying to educate dole whallers (unsuccessfully!). One chap had 14 kids and when asked how he supported them as he had no job...he explained that he had 2 labrador bitches who provided a substantial income for his family i was fuming

I saw the end of that programme but didn't see that about the dogs - he was so uncouth and foul :(

Does he declare that income I wonder? 

I saw it, because i wanted to see how AW got on with this dreadful man. Well, he's not a man in my book, but there you go. i had seen him a while ago in the sunday newspapers, he certainly knows how to get a living off benefits, although as he says he dosent claim, but his two 'wives' do and they have a very good living out of the benefits system, I can tell you! Sports car and huge 4x4 on the drive, huge FS Tv, loads of mod cons kitchen, furniture etc etc and they looked well dressed too. in the garden there were many very expensive things for the kids to play on, there are many a hard working family that would love just one. he 'said' he couldnt get a job because of previous criminal conviction (which he didnt say what it was) but AW found him a choice of 3 jobs. he said he would take one, but on the first go he hurt his hand (ahhhhh) and when AW went back to see how he was getting on, he wouldnt let her in, said he wasnt working coz of the hand, and told her to go in a not very nice way. The dogs were Labs, (well, I only saw one dog and that was a Lab, so could have been another breed too) and when she asked how he paid for the cars, Tv etc he said he bred dogs, she said he couldnt possibly make enough from breeding a dog for all he has, and he said yes he could, he had two!

This family just goes to show how, if you know how to work the system, you can have a good lifestyle by breeding children and no need to work. :(

But what common faces they all had :rolleyes:

And mouths to match

>It's a bit like saying to people wanting a baby not to have one if they can't afford it

Well yeah,thats how i did things. I wanted a baby from a very young age and could have easily fell pregnant young,but because i wasnt financially secure i waited until i was.

Whats so wrong with people holding out for a baby until they can afford it.Babies/children are very expensive.

Hi everyone, 

Its amazing how the everyone picked up on the VET BILL and who paid.  You dont expect to go out and buy a puppy that has been hit in the head with a stick. Also they had only had him a couple of days so hadnt got around to organising insurance, they have it in place now but it wont cover he initial injuries.   I am upset that she bought it despite all the advice about not doing so but she did.  My main concern and worry was that the classified ad paper protected the seller from investigation by making out that they had no idea who placed the ad. It had to have been paid for some how.  It just made me angry.

The good thing is that he is doing well and he is in a place where they care and have got him help.  He is secure and safe and always will be now.  Irrespective of whether they are on benefits or not.  I think the RSPCA got involved due to the appalling state of the puppy, after the local vet reported it on to them. 
 

I agree with you regarding the paper, and have said so...what I can't understand is, surely this must be not just puppy farming, but an animal cruelty case, especially as the vet thought it necessary to call in the RSPCA. If that is the case, and the paper will not give details for the rspca to follow up on, then animal creulty is a police matter too, would there not be enough evidence for the police to be called in and this person be traced? As you said, they paid for the ad somehow, and their details must have been given out then. The rspca know the law and the rules, I can't understand why they didnt chase this up. How about contacting them again, see how the state of play is, and even calling the local police, see what advice they can give? Of course, proving pup was hit with a stick before he was handed over, and anything else with regard to his ill health, would need good evidential backup for any prosecution to follow with regard to the seller/breeder. Lots of things to consider, but if you still feel strongly about this, then as I say, get in touch with the rspca and the police. Idiot moneymakers like these need to be stopped.