Fair do's missie, fair do's!
I relaly cat be bothered to arugue my side anymore as certai people dont talk they argue and im not really into forcing opinions on people!
Where we go on holiday its fine to take a dog and we make amends for things that we would normally do but cant as we have a dog, its the we like it to fir her in as shes fun on holiday running on the beach out of season! :)

Rach85-I will have my views and you will have yours, if you cant live with someone elses views then dont come to a discussion forum where people wont always agree same with  Lea.
No one expects us all to agree with each other, and alot of the time we may not but when someone comes on and makes out that we shouldnt have dogs if we dont take them on holiday with us Re -
Rach85 - So whatever your style of holiday they could come with you, if you cant provide for a dog in every way including taking them on holiday with you then dont get a dog.
Maybe your views but that is VERY provocative and dictatorship. Yes you are entitled to your opinions, but making out that people who put their dogs in kennels while they go on holiday is cruel is absolutly absurd and Daamn right HURTFUL and I am sure you KNEW you would get back lash from making that statement :(
Lea :(

I think its cruel to put dogs in kennels? I have never said that ever I said its not fait if they are used to coming on hoiday with you, please please get my facts correct before you try to catch me out with them.
OK will it make you feel better if i make a fault of my own that you lot wont agree with???? OK I crate my dog, there you go, something for you to concentrate on Lea seeming you are focused on me and my views.
If I hurt your feelings then dont leave your self open for attack by starting an arguement with some who has different views from you, im sorry but thats the truth I dont like to argue but I will not be pushed around.
Backlash? This is dictatorshiop on your part as you wont allow me to have my say, im open to all of your views but you will not accept mine, you are the dictator not me Lea
This has gotten so trivial now and its not even about whats better for the dogs rather who has the best opinion.

I think its cruel to put dogs in kennels? I have never said that ever I said its not fait if they are used to coming on hoiday with you, please please get my facts correct before you try to catch me out with them.
No What you said was YOU SHOULDNT HAVE DOGS IF YOU WONT TAKE THEM ON HOLIDDY.
Enough Said I think!!!!!
Lea.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones is a saying that springs to mind. 

Rach85 I would far rather put my dogs into kennels than leave them crated for hours and hours on end which is something you have stated that you do on a regular basis according to a previous post of yours. IMHO going into kennels for a couple of weeks a year is a very different situation to being crated for 7 hours at a time.

You obviously don't agree with the decisions Lea has made with regard to the practicalities of ownership of her dogs, but I have to say that I personally find it rather puzzling that you are getting a second dog, a puppy in fact, later in the year but don't see anything wrong with crating the dog you already own for hours on end. I presume the pup would also be crated for the same periods of time - if I had to leave my dogs crated for the same length of time that you feel is acceptable I would seriously have to consider rehoming my older dog and I would never have got a second puppy at all.

I think there is a vast difference between the two actions and I know which one I find acceptable and which one I don't :(

I have a dog that was crated for hours on end every day. Not by me, by previous owner.(I have only ever crated toy dogs, and only at night or for a few minutes at a time during the day such as when I mop the floors.) This poor dog has really suffered mentally because of this. She's terrified of everything and now cannot even be crated for a few minutes as she gets completely hysterical.(As in REALLY seriously upset, not just miffed!) Once she'd learnt she did NOT have to be crated for long periods here, but was allowed to run around, she never wanted to go near a crate again. At night she sleeps on the sofa, and then, and if we go out, I just remove any objects she could damage if chewed. I can't go into too many details here as I don't want to identify anyone, but this whole experience has REALLY shown me just what damage crating can do when over used like this. Yet this dog, and many others no doubt, showed no signs of hating it much UNTIL she learned what life COULD be like. My vet also commented on that she has a total lack of muscle tone from not having used her legs enough!

Marianne Mitz is more fit then most dogs and she is very happy to run to her crate in the morning for her treat and look forward to crate time, so your views dont apply to my dog im afraid!
Mitz is happy mnetally and physically so why chage things for her?

Mitz is happy mnetally and physically so why chage things for her?

To make life BETTER? It's true dogs often don't miss what they've never had, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be a lot happier if they DID have it.

Its hardly for hours on end as my OH works part time so she isnt crated all day at all and she out at night, rather that then her rip up our house.
Thousands of people crate their dogs and all good breeders reccommend it so who is in the wrong? Dont tell me i shouldnt get another puppy because i crate train? this is the accepted normal now for many people and its much fairer in most cases.
Surely crating at home is better then kennles in a strange place etc etc

Thousands of people crate their dogs and all good breeders reccommend it so who is in the wrong?

I most certainly do not recommend it and don't know many that do either. So hardly ALL.

So you are the be all and end all of what breeders should do are you?and actully I am right no matter what you say! :)

You said ALL good breeders recommend crating. I'd consider myself a good breeder and I don't, ergo your statement isn't correct.

I'll add myself to that list Marianne.  In fact I don't know any breeders that would be happy with such a situation.

Surely crating at home is better then kennles in a strange place etc etc

Kennels would mean a lot more space, and would only be a strange place for the first day or so......

Ok i'll get a new puppy and kennel him at 7 weeks old. rather then crate him????

I would not put a 7 week old in kennels or crate him all day.

>Surely crating at home is better then kennles in a strange place etc etc

Totally disagree.  It is companionship and relief from boredom that dogs need.  I think it would be arrogant of an owner to consider that only their companionship will fulfill that need even if it is preferable for the dog.

There is no right or wrong as far as taking a dog on holiday goes. If an owners wish to include their dogs and go to somewhere that will cater for the dogs needs aswell as there own then fine. However if they wish to take a different kind of holiday that means they can't or don't wish to include the dogs, then so long as sufficient provision is made for the care of the dogs, be it either kennels or petsitting then that is fine also. Neither situation means that someone shouldnt have dogs.

Would you rather I got a puppy and let him run wild to destroy things and get hurt? Great Idea, just great!

Would you rather I got a puppy and let him run wild to destroy things and get hurt? Great Idea, just great!

When you get a new pppy, you have to be with it, not leave it alone. You also make sure it is in a safe environment, just like you do with toddlers. Remove things that can be harmful or damaged. It's not difficult. Crating doesn't teach a dog not to chew, it only stops them from doing it. They will lean not to chew and destroy items by being around them and being trained not to, not by being kept away from them. I've never had a puppy get injured in any house I've lived in. Crating can be useful for the moments you can't keep your eye on a pup, but not for hours on end during day time.

Would you rather I got a puppy and let him run wild to destroy things and get hurt?

If there is someone at home all day with the puppy then he won't be running wild and destroying things. I am not against crate training at all - we used a crate when our GR pup was small, even though there was someone home all day :) The crate was used for keeping the puppy safe at times when he could not be watched for very short times - when I was getting hot things out of the oven, when someone came to the door etc - and it was his own personal refuge when he needed time out from us to sleep. Through being at home with him for the huge majority of the time I was able to teach which  things he was allowed to chew, such as his toys, kong etc, and which things he wasn't, such as the carpets, kitchen cupboards etc :) He was never crated for more than 2 hours.

Just because lots of people regularly crate their dogs for hours on end doesn't mean it is an acceptable practice, IMHO.

I take mine on holiday with me if I think we will all enjoy it.  If I think either they won't for any reason or I won't I don't take them and just make sure they are properly cared for, in kennels in my particular instance.   I think, like children, our duty is to raise them with a certain level of independance.  It would worry me rather to have a dog that could not be left for a short period of time on its own or in a decent kennels for longer periods.

I take mine on holiday with me if I think we will all enjoy it.  If I think either they won't for any reason or I won't I don't take them and just make sure they are properly cared for, in kennels in my particular instance.

Exactly. :) I don't go on holiday as such, but next year I am going to go to the World Dog Show. It will after all be back home in Sweden. :D  I am planning to bring two dogs with me. We have already worked out this will have to be a week for the DOGS, with us taking second place, as there is no way we will be able to do the things we would normally do when visiting Sweden, such as going shopping or going to the zoo for instance. I will have nowhere totally safe to leave the dogs so they will have to be with us all the time.

This is a totally different angle to your first post though. People have commented based on the information in your first post , what is describled in your first post is very very common..

I dont see any difference to putting a dog in kennels than sitting on the internet all day and not giving it quality time..

tongue firmly in cheek :D

It's a difficult one.  When we had our last dog he used to come along on holiday with us to France, but we felt it would be cruel taking him all the way to Canada so we left him with my parents.

However, I wouldn't take our dogs to France now, as I don't want to put them through the dangers of the rabies jab (something I was unaware of), just my choice but I understand why others still do it.

We do take our 2 dogs away for weekends and we do find the really good hotels are usually dog friendly, but I'm not sure if they would take 3 which is the number of dogs I want eventually!

So for our holiday this year one of the dogs is staying with our neighbour and the other with my parents.  If for some reason they were not able to take care of them then I'd have to think about putting both in kennels, not my preferred choice but my only option.

It's really easy to put people down because they don't take care of dogs the way that we would ourselves.  But sometimes all the facts have to be considered before saying whether it is right or wrong. 

Going back to the op I do think it is wrong leaving the dogs like that when they go on holiday, anything could happen during the time they are left alone, but they probably don't have a clue they are doing anything wrong :rolleyes: