It has just been reported that cattle at a farm near Guildford Surrey, have tested positive for foot & mouth disease, and a country-wide ban is in place on the movement of cattle and pigs.

Let us hope and pray that this outbreak is confined to Surrey, and hasn't already spread throughout the country, as the last one did.

Margot

Not good news :(  is it?

Hopefully they'll confine it and it won't cause all the problems like last time......................not looking forward to keeping off the forest if it comes to it :( I never had the dogs with the last outbreak

It's a nightmare isn't it. I can't believe it's happening again.

Dawn R.

That's awful :(.  We were so badly affectly here, I would not like to see another area suffer so.

Keep everything crossed it doesn't spread, please.  We are down in Devon, so a fair way from Surrey but I'm worried about my little Dexters already.  I'm trying to think of a way of moving one group, which are near a footpath, but we still haven't cut our hay so not that many options.  I'll have to see what's said about footpaths ...

Not again! Lets hope that it is contained and Defra do a better job this time to help the poor farmers affected

The surveillance area contains Loseley Park.....the venue for Richmond Champ Show!!!!.  They will probably have to change the venue or even cancel.  What a shame for all concerned. 

I would think that cancelling a champ dog show will be the least of their worries at the moment !

I live just out of the zones, tomorrow we have a big agriculteral show happening I would hope they will cancel that as well, a shame but necessary.

Lets just hope that having caught it they manage to stop it spreading any further

As all sheep, cattle and pig movement is banned nationwide I doubt whether any agricultural shows will be going ahead.

Another headache for Gordon Brown, I bet Tony Blair is glad he handed over the job  when he did.
What an awful thought the return of foot and mouth people like farmers and hoteliers are only just starting to get over the last outbreak.

It's a nightmare - I sincerely hope that they manage to confine it to the one farm and that it doesn't spread. We are also just outside of the zones, so it is very close to home :(

Heard on the news this morning that the farm had 60 infected cows.  How did the farmer not notice before it got to this amount!!

Animals can be incubating a disease and test positive for it before showing any symptoms.

But surely the 60 didn't go down with it all at once.  I would have thought that a couple, maybe a few would have started showing the symptoms first.

Not everyone who comes into contact with a disease develops symptoms at exactly the same timescale. Incubation periods for diseases can be 7-14 days, for instance. Some will show symptoms 7 days after infection, others not till 14 days, with the rest somewhere in between. So yes, a few would have started showing symptoms and all the herd will have been tested, and of course the ones still incubating the disease will have proven positive.

Yes I expect that is what happened.  Only when it was noticed in one or two where the other examined closely.  I can't see it could be practical for a farmer to closely examine his cows on a daily basis particularly the ones that are not milking.

I think you'll find that 60 cattle is the number on the farm not the number infected, but they will all be culled to prevent infection

I found the pictures of the cows penned in ready for slaughter really sickening, and very depressing :(

it only 4 miles away from me,and on the other side of the hog back to where loseley house is were richmond show will be held they have jesery cattle at losesly,they have a big turno ver of products as ice cream,milk.cottage cheese and other milk products

Can I please ask everyone who reads this, who walks on public footpaths, to make use of any disinfectants that farmers leave by the entrances to their land, to spray or dunk their shoes/boots.  We're going to put bowls of disinfectant by the stiles with notices requesting people to use them.  It's the best we can do to protect our cows.  I spoke to our neighbours recently and they said that they left out disinfectant during the last foot and mouth outbreak and several times they found the buckets had been turned over by walkers - unbelievable!

Overturned deliberately or accidentally?

He thought deliberately :(

belgian bonkers, we had FMD here on the farm in 2001. let me ASSURE you that when we milked at 6 am we had 2 cows with blistered noses and by 11 am when the ministry vet arrived there were over 20 with symptoms!!! it can be that fast.

I'm sure they said on tonight's news they are bringing the bodies to Somerset to be disposed of...?

So much for keeping it contained? :rolleyes:

They're supposedly in sealed trucks.

More importantly, where did it come from? The latest report is that the virus escaped from a government lab 'nearby' (3 miles away, which makes a nonsense of a mere 3km exclusion zone) where they were developing vaccines.

Copied from a site I'm following - www.warmwell.com

"Professor Hugh Pennington interviewed on BBC News 24 gives as his opinion that the source virus is identical to that in vaccine work being done at Pirbright and very possibly excaped from there. The latest statement by DEFRA :
"The FMD strain found in Surrey is not one currently known to be recently found in animals. It is most similar to strains used in international diagnostic laboratories and in vaccine production, including at the Pirbright site shared by the Institute of Animal Health (IAH) and Merial Animal Health Ltd, a pharmaceutical company. The present indications are that this strain is a 01 BFS67 - like virus, isolated in the 1967 Foot and Mouth Disease outbreak in Great Britain.
This strain is present at the IAH and was used in a batch manufactured in July 2007 by the Merial facility. On a precautionary basis Merial has agreed to voluntarily halt vaccine production.
In response to this new information Debby Reynolds, Chief Veterinary Officer has instructed that a new single Protection Zone be created encompassing both the infected farm premises and the Pirbright site, with a single 10km radius Surveillance Zone. ..."

It will be a relief to know where it has originated - but not much comfort for those poor souls nearby.

This is horrendous news !

Margot

It's frightening, isn't it?

i live 3 miles away from the place where the vacc is product and a neighour lives 3 doors away from me he works there and his wife too.

Did you see the news, the trucks are not sealed, just covered over with tarpulin. :rolleyes: As this is airborn, it dosent seem very safe to me. I can't understand why they have to be moved, rather than huge ditches dug on the farm they are at, and then burnt. Seems a lot safer and more contained to me. Unless its one of DEFRAs rules.

Hopefully they will find out why this awful disease was allowed to spread from the labs.

have they say it come from the labs,

there was rumors at nat gundog yesterday but i have not seen the news yesterday due to going to the show,
there two slaughter house round this area  too ????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6931639.stm

An example of a Government Department and a 'liason' with a drug company of which the majority of the public are not aware. :(

I think it is shocking if the lab has let their bio security slip to this extent, as it would appear they have, and hope someone is held responsible if they have but I can't see what difference it would make if the research was being funded by public money or a pharmaceutical company.  I'm sure if the public were interested they only have to look at the Institutes web site to see who they carry out research for so I can't really see any secrecy there. 

Having worked for a pharamceutical company I know that you can prove whatever you want to prove, and as with all things, you can only look up what you know exists.  Most people have no idea what goes on in worlds that they don't live in. :D

I think it is more a case of looking it up if you are bothered :)   It was very easy to do, just Google the Institute.

You would have to know what was happening there to begin with, otherwise you would be wasting your time day in and out looking at the net which busy farmers do not have time to do. Even if they did, and protested about the vaccine being made so close to their farms, they would be shouted down by the Lab supporters, who would say there was no way it could escape the Lab It would seem farmers had their suspicions about the place anyway. it just goes to show what these scientists do is not as safe as they would have us believe. how many other things have escaped, causing problems? :(

I just hope they do a through investigation of how this happened, and don't just find a scapegoat and do a cover up. They should certainly be made to pay full compensation to each and every farmer affected by this, especially the ones who have had stock culled. I just hope and pray, like everyone else, this does not spread furthur. Being airbourne, only time will tell.

>You would have to know what was happening there to begin with, otherwise you would be wasting your time day in and out looking at the net which busy farmers do not have time to do.

Why on earth do farmers need to spend time looking up where the vaccines are being developed .  There is no excuse for poor bio security and enquiries should be taken to see what went wrong but it's got to be researched somewhere and it's likely to be next to someones farm. 
I expect, though, that the neighbouring farms are aware of the institute and its work, many local people will work there, but I would also expect its work is more widely known in the industry too.  They have their own press and I would imagine advances in relevant science will be a topic as it is in the dog press.

I think it is more a case of looking it up if you are bothered    It was very easy to do, just Google the Institute.
Your comment.

lets just hope that the company take full responsibility for this tragic occurance, and make attempts for this never to happen again. No one knows exactly what is tested at these places, if foot and mouth can escape, who knows what else could escape. This is going to put yet more strain on farmers, and I hope the actual company will compensate them for their total loss, rather than the state. This vaccine was not even meant for the market here, so why was it not being tested where it was required? I have no doubt the locals know exactly what goes on there, much the same way as they know what happens inother places. :rolleyes:

>I think it is more a case of looking it up if you are bothered    It was very easy to do, just Google the Institute.
>Your comment.

Yes, my comment, but I have no idea what you are getting at I'm afraid, it was you would said it might be too difficult for a busy farmer to do.

>This vaccine was not even meant for the market here, so why was it not being tested where it was required?

Do we know that?  Firstly there are two outfits on site.  One Government and the other private both doing research and development.  Even if their output is not used immediately in this country how can we say it will never be of value to us.  I hope they do determine what went wrong and take action if appropriate but it would be a bit "nimby" to say go off and do the work elsewhere afer all we have benefited  from research conducted in other countries over the years.
You are right there may be other secret research going on, more likely in the Government sector I would have though, but there does not seem to have been the least secrecy about this particular work so, yes, I would imagine the locals were aware of it, if not the wider farming community from the farming press.

Well, I can only go the news reports to say it was not meant for this country. i dont think all of the reports are wrong.....but then again.....;) It seems the farmers were aware, but obviously not happy.....in fact the whole thing about this site is bad, having read various news reports about lack of funding, young students doing work that should have been done by higher qualified staff.....the list just goes on. An accident waiting to happen.

>I think it is more a case of looking it up if you are bothered    It was very easy to do, just Google the Institute.
>Your comment.

Yes, my comment, but I have no idea what you are getting at I'm afraid, it was you would said it might be too difficult for a busy farmer to do

The only people to be bothered would be those living near, your post seemed to say anyone could find out if they were bothered, well I would imagine farmers would be bothered what is going on around them, but as I say, they dont have time to sit at PCs finding info out.

If they can't control what leaves their labs, maybe they should work in areas that are less likely to suffer when they have leaks. yes, research needs to be done, but in a safe and controlled area, sadly this does not always happen, and biochemists do have a poor track record of clearing up their mess. before this is even cleared up, before it is known for certain where this latest F and M strated, the tests have resumed.

I agree, if it turns out to be the case, there should be more funding to assist in ensuring security but I don't think there is anywhere practical in this country to run somewhere like this that isn't anywhere near farming communities.

>The only people to be bothered would be those living near, your post seemed to say anyone could find out if they were bothered

I think you are taking that entirely out of context.  If you look back to what Val and I were discussing you will see my point was there is no secrecy.

"I agree, if it turns out to be the case, there should be more funding to assist in ensuring security but I don't think there is anywhere practical in this country to run somewhere like this that isn't anywhere near farming communities"

Uninhabited islands

>Uninhabited islands

Wouldn't that make staff recruitment a little tricky? ;)

Uninhabited islands tend to lack electricity and other essentials for scientific manufacturing processes ... ;)

>Uninhabited islands
Wouldn't that make staff recruitment a little tricky?

They manage on oil rigs :D :D.........I do think its a shame that all this type of research couldnt be carried out in more secure places, for whatever is being tested especially if its release can have such dire effects.

If you expect people to work in those sorts of conditions you have to pay them considerably extra.  As funding seems an issue as it is (raised by taxation remember :)) I can't really see how that can work.  If more funding was made available it could be just used for better bio security and then nobody, and their families, would have to live like North Sea roustabouts.

Interestly, it appears that the Americans DO use an island (Plum Island) for their Foot and Mouth research.

The 'Fat cat' drugs companies could use some of their considerable profits to fund this themselves, but the 'oil rig' comment was made 'tounge in cheek'.....however, if the americans can manage, maybe this company could put its operation elsewhere. There is no need for govern funding of a private drug company, they have enough money to cover their own operations.

Drug companies make large profits because they are large companies.  Their research and development costs are also large and left to Governments alone we would be years behind were we are in modern medicine. 
I'm sure there is no need for Government funding of private drug companies, except if they have commissioned research from them of course, but I have not heard any suggestion that is the case at Pirbright.