Got this heartrending email from the owners of a two year old bitch I bred who lives in the USA, this is her first litter.

My breed usually make very good mothers and aggression to pups is unheard of.

She did have a very small pup that she was determined not to rear and rejected and after all their efforts was eventually put to sleep at about a week old.

"Hi Barbara:
I am just sick at heart right now.  I just went out to check on the puppies, and I found that Kana had killed the Green male.  He was my favorite of the three males, and I'm upset.  His body was still warm lying in the middle of the whelping box, and Kana had chewed out his tongue.  When I picked him up blood started dripping everywhere.  I didn't find any bite marks on him, and at 3 pounds I find it odd that she would have laid on him without knowing it ... plus there's a safety ledge.  But, Kana isn't careful around the puppies.  I've seen her several times hop into the whelping box where the puppies are piled together sleeping and lay right on top of them to nurse them.  She doesn't lay flat out to nurse either, more propped up on her shoulder with her weight on her elbow, but she'd have to be passed out not to be aware she had laid on a 3 pound squirming puppy.  There was nothing wrong with Green for Kana to cull him like she had done with White, but I have no explanation for the death of the Green male.  Kana has done some strange things with her litter that I've never seen a bitch do before, but this tops the cake.  I'm afraid to leave her alone with them for even a minute now.  Sorry to unload on you!"

the only thing I could think of was Eclampsia as I know this can send the bitches ga ga and cause the to kill their pups???? 

Any other ideas folks, as the poor breeders (30 odd years experience) are heartbroken.

The only episode I've ever heard of like this was a bitch who'd been given Oxytocin injection after the birth and was evil towards the pups until it wore off!  She bit one of the pups and drew blood before they could stop her, and she had to be separated from them except for feeding times and then was muzzled while they fed.  She was OK after a few days tho and I wouldn't have thought it could be that after a week or so.

Like you, I'd be looking for eclampsia ;)   

She has been fine though a bit clumsy with them, apart from taking the small pup out of the whelping box in the first day or two.  Seems strange that she bit the tongue out but no other signs of injury makes me wonder if he might have been choking and she panicked trying to help him?  Or as I thought Eclampsia.

I had a four day old pup whose tongue got stuck outside her mouth and it swelled up. I rushed off to the vet and by the time I arrived ,(10 minutes) it had gone down enough for me to push it back in. Whilst it was stuck, the pup was almost sqeaking. My vet could find nothing wrong other than an early back tooth,she thought the tongue had got caught on it. She explained that if the tongue remains exposed, it will swell.

I am wondering if this could have happened to this pup? The noise could have made the bitch panic, or maybe she thought it was something that shouldn't have been on her baby and tried to remove it?

Best wishes

Linda

ive known a bitch kill her litter at 4 weeks old when someone not regular has been into them to help clean them out.  Who knows whys they do these things.

xx

This is the latest message I have from them, it is so sad, and just so strange Elkhounds are such natural Mums and are far from nervy about people around their pups loving to show them off from early on.

"I don't know, but I don't trust her anymore.  I put Kana in a kennel next to
the whelping kennel, and won't allow her alone with the puppies.  We'll let
her nurse them and care for them but only if we're there to watch her.  I
caught Kana at noon licking at the mouth of the Pink female and put a stop
to it.  Ron said he checked the puppies at 5:30 am so I could sleep and all
were fine.  I checked at 9:30 am and found Green dead with his tongue chewed
out."

Don't understand this preoccupation with the mouth of her pups?

How awful Brainless :(  It's so weird, maybe she is a good mother but has just got confused about things in the way that some will over chew umbilicals or are obsesive about cleaning and just doesn't realised the harm she is doing.  Whatever, I don't think they will dare let her have unsupervised access to the pups again surely.

I have suggested they have the litter indoors and let her feed them every two to three hours supervised.  they have an air conditioned block of kennels and the whelping quarters are in one of them all very posh but not on the scale they used to have.  Only have the three adult dogs now, and were planning on keeping two of the pups a dog and bitch, and looks like the dog they wanted has been killed.  I think something like this would seriously damage my relationship with my bitch if it happened to em.

How awful.  I would be heartbroken too, which is why I wouldn't have left a bitch who had been behaving oddly with a litter of 2 week old pups.  I would still be sleeping with them for another two weeks and only be leaving them for a few minutes during the day.
This is not a natural way for a bitch to behave and could well be a chemical imbalance with all that's going on with her body, but like a dog biting a child, if you don't actually see what's happening, how can you condemn the dog? :(

It seems that the pups are getting hot and she is very fussy about keeping them clean and they are greedy and very well grown.  I think inexperience, pups getting hot and crying and Mum getting over wrought and I think Calcium levels could be depleted.

they have now split the bitch from the pups allowing her to feed them every few hours under close supervising.

Seems their kennel room is right by kitchen.

I am very close to my pups and Mums for the first four weeks with someone nearly always in the room.

Seems hubby was left watching out for the pups while she ran an errand.  Pup was still warm when found.

It is just very unlike bitches in my breed.

My own bitch her full sister had a terrible whelping and was terrified of pups at first and very uncertain the first day or two, but this bitch whelped as easy as pie and was very happy with pups from the word go (except for the tiny one).

My bitches (five generations) have all been excellent Mums ranging from doting to firmly efficient.

Ron said he checked the puppies at 5:30 am so I could sleep and all
were fine.  I checked at 9:30 am

Seems hubby was left watching out for the pups while she ran an errand.

Sound like some confusion here but a very sad outcome regardless.  Hopefully a hard lesson learned after 30 years of breeding that it may be safer not to leave pups unattended, certainly not for 4 hours. :(  Just horrid. :(

Although our Spanish are in the house they are a breed that you don't need to spend all day with them, but I wouldn't leave pups for that long.  Such a shame, but we have had it before with the Pomeranian's unfortuntely but we've always thought that the mother felt that there was something wrong.

It's so annoying when you get pups to such and age and something like this happens.

ditto val....i cant begin to imagine leaving pups that young for 4 hours!!!

Well they were left in hubby's care.

How awful for the poor owners and also you. Never heard of a bitch chewing the tongue out, very distressing for them. I hope that all works out well with the rest of the litter

Just the four left now, it was their favourite male that was killed.

So sorry to hear this. Fingers crossed that the other pups will survive. Has she  (the dam) been to the vets to make sure that all is ok with her?

Well this is the latest message:

"We just need to acknowledge that Kana is a
"frantic" mother ... one who incessantly cleans her pups and can't decide
whether to nurse them or bury them under newspapers.  We don't leave her
alone with the puppies anymore.  Feeding the puppies at this age every 2-3
hours was too much; they weren't hungry.  We're trying every 4 hours and
they seem content with that.  Either Ron or I sit with Kana and her puppies
for a good 30-45 minutes so she can clean and lick to her heart's content
but under our watchful eye.  The puppies are talking and playing now, and a
Ziploc of ice in the whelping box has stopped their heat distress after
nursing.  Their quick barks or cries do make Kana "frantic", and I truly
suspect that morning the puppies were being too vocal for her to deal with
and she snapped.  We will continue to watch Kana closely for signs of
anything amiss."

This is a 2 year old maiden bitch.  My breed do not cope well with heat after about the 10th day.  I usually have winter litters, but on the rare summer or unseasonably warm Autumn litters I have had I have found pups getting very vocal and hot after nursing and the bitch getting worried about it not knowing how to help the pups.

As soon as pups moved to much cooler environment or have frozen water bottles in the whelping box to cool things down peace resumes.

I wish these people the best of luck, with Mum & the remaining pups.
I would definitely get her Calcium levels checked though - this behaviour could certainly be linked to Eclampsia.

Yes it was my first thought though they discounted it as they ahve been giving Calcium supplements, but of course modern thinking says these can actually cause a problem with eclampsia if given in preganancy and when not needed.

The extra supervison seems to be doing the trick and they will be old enough to start weaning soon.  I just hope they let her continue to mother her pups.

Hope all the pups are doing well now and the owner hasn't experienced any further problems with the dam.

Here is the mail I got with photos today.  At the time the pup was killed the temperature was in the 90' 100' F range.  they are now 3 1/2 weeks and running around.

"I took these shots this past weekend of the puppies -- they're walking
pretty good now.  **** does like her puppies, and she tries to play with
them.  She's a little too rough with them yet for their age, but she will
lay with them after nursing and give them attention.  I really think the
death of the green male was an accident on her part ... she just got too
frantic with whatever was happening at the time.  We still don't leave her
alone with them unsupervised, but she seems content with our arrangement.
We've introduced the puppies to puppy chow and they're giving it a try. "

I am so pleased that all has worked out now with the pups and mum is a lot better. It must be a relief to not only you but the owners also. What a terrible time they had.

Yes it is.  It is of course sods law that their favourite male pup was killed.  They have two of each sex and are going to keep one of each sex, theough I like one of the bitches best.  Our breed only has it's National breed specialty every other year s they were keen to have a pup or two to show for next May.

Glad to hear there have been no more 'accidents' and that she is learning to enjoy her puppies.