Last monday my 3 dogs were given the kennel cough vaccine in preparation for a stay in kennels. Yesterday I noticed my 2 yorkies made funny noises when breathing a couple of times nothing drastic and by the time I had walked over to them they were fine, (its the kind of breathing yorkies do sometimes) About 1am my cairn began with the same kind of breathing, and it was obvious that he was not feeling well. It sounds like a rattle in the nose or back of throat. He didn't have his mouth open and he wasn't panting. It lasted for quite a well with short bursts of recovery. My gut feeling is that is some kind of inflammation due to the kennel cough. I rang the vet who said that it is possible its that or that it could be a grass seed in his nose. She was happy to see him but suggested that I monitor him and take him to see a vet in the morning, but to ring and arrange to take him in if I was worried. He has settled now and has been asleep for the past hour and a half with only very occasional noisy breathing. He also seems better in himself. I cannot sleep now as I keep waiting for it to start again. I am so worried. Why do these things always happen at night and at the weekend or bank holidays!! The vet did inform me that they charge 121.50 consultation plus any treatment to see him (not a problem as he is insured) I cannot see why they have to charge such extortionate prices. Sorry for the long post and the rant about vet bills, it has been a long night. Thanks for listening.
jane

Hi, how is he this morning?

I have had a mild case of kennel cough with my dogs after the vaccine  it sounds to me as if this is the case it seems riduculous I know but it prevents a bad dose of KC if going to be in contact with a lot of dogs.
I am surprised the vet never told you this of course it is best to get a professional opinion to put your mind at rest.

I gaave mine childrens benylin in the evening . lasts  around 2 weeks .

The vet did inform me that they charge 121.50 consultation plus any treatment to see him
How much? Thank goodness my vet dosent charge anything like that for out of hours consultation!

I understand why you are worried and hopefully your vet should be too!

Unfortunately, vaccines can sometimes cause the very illness we are trying to prevent - it seems that this may be the case with your dogs.

If you are worried, then insist that you see your vet immediately - don't wait for the symptoms to get worse.  And don't let them charge you an astronomical amount for something that might be happening because the vaccine has gone wrong - phone them and insist you see them immediately.

See the vet, if it's nothing to do with the vaccine then by all means pay for the treatment, if it is to do with the vaccine, believe me you will not have to pay a penny.

This is not a case of the vaccine "going wrong".   It is a perfectly understood effect that will often follow this particular vaccine.  You should certainly look out for secondary infection, although this seems unlikely in the mild case brought on by vaccination, but there is no treatment for kennel cough so not much point in insisting on seeing a vet unless the symptoms do get worse.

Thank you Isabel you have made me feel so much better. I am a little annoyed at the vet though as there was no mention that this may happen, what to look for, and what to do. The vet that I spoke to in the night would not commit herself to saying it was a reaction to the vaccine, although I can understand that she wouldn't want to diagnose without first examining him. Does the fact that he has had this kind of reaction affect him being accepted into kennels does anyone know?
jane

No, infact it would confirm that it has been effective.  All vaccines work by stimulating a response.

Thank you. A little bit of information can be incredibly reassuring.
jane

I'm not convinced that you can be so confident the vaccine has not ' gone wrong' Isabel, and less convinced of your advice about not going to see a vet to establish what the problem may be - in fact your advice is totally irresponsible!

They symptoms sometimes brought on by the Kennel couch vaccine can be much worse than kennel cough itself and therefore these dogs need to see a vet asap!  regardless of all the 'links' you add from the vaccine manufacturer!

Hi MariaC, What makes you say that the symptoms are worse when brought on by the vaccine? He has become quieter again over the last half hour although he his not making any funny noises and could just be tired.  The noises he was making in the night though were not a cough. If I am in the slightest bit worried he will be straight to the vet, whatever time of day or night. I prefer to have him checked than to worry unnecessary.
jane

Sorry Jane, my mistake, I shouldn't have said 'worse than the vaccine' what I meant to say was reactions to vaccines can be as serious as the disease itself. 

However, as you say if you are in the slightest bit worried then you will see the vet - much better to be safe than sorry. 

I have never heard of any dog have worse symptoms from the vaccine than the disease itself but as I have said that you should see a vet if the symptoms do get worse I hardly think I have been irresponsible.
Jane's dog appears to have followed the classic course as indicated by the manufacturers data sheet and is fine today :)  This is the nature of this vaccine so I say again this is not a case of it "going wrong".

I certainly know of one dog that had very bad kennel cough after being vaccinated.

Do you mean the post vaccine event was very bad or the dog contracted a bad case later despite being vaccinated? 

The dog came doiwn with very bad kennel cough within a short time after being vaccinated, about two weeks.

Rather hard to say if it was the vaccine then, certainly seems longer than anything I have experienced, either from post vaccine or from exposure, or what is indicated on the data sheet. 
If it was a case of contracting a strain not protected by the virus it is disappointed that it was a bad case as the vaccine is thought to minimise effects from other strains but then we cannot know how bad it might have been without the vaccine.

Kennel cough is not usually a dangerous disease a bit like the common cold for us humans so a vaccine for kennel cough is not really helping the animals in question, just helps us to get them into kennels.

A bit like saying, have a vaccine for kennel cough to make sure they get the disease before they are in the kennels

The point of having the minor dose is to produce a much stronger response to future exposure.  It can be very dangerous for some dogs, particularly the young and the old ,but I agree with you for the majority it is just a nuisance albeit often a distressing one for dog and owner so not one I would generally opt for unless the kennels requested it.

It's 100% normal to have a response to a vaccine - that's the whole principle. The KC vaccine is well-known to cause a minor cough (very much minor and short-lived to the full-blown 'natural' disease) so unless the dog becomes seriously unwell, which these ones haven't, there's no cause for concern. The vaccine is behaving perfectly normally and hasn't 'gone wrong'.

Isabel....How can you safely make this comment unless you are a vet and have seen the dog? Whilst what you say may well be the case, a vet is the person surely to give this type of total reassurance.

I pointed out that if the symptoms did get worse they should report it but the OP had already discussed their present situation with the vet so all I am really doing is giving my understanding of why they will have advised as they did.

Thank you for your replies. He has been fine today. No coughing or noisy breathing he seems his normal self. I shall give the vet a ring to ask advice in the morning to check as he is going into kennels on Aug 10th. My word did I panic, cursing myself for having it done and putting him into kennels. I keep worrying about them all going into kennels now in case they are ill in the night (silly I know but I have never used kennels before). I have given myself a sleepless night. I'm glad you think the same about the fees. I was amazed when the vet told me the charges. It is Vets Now, they do locum cover for out of hours emergencies, they use the PDSA premises. I think I might mention the fees to my vet tomorrow too.  Anyway I am hoping for a good nights sleep tonight, fingers crossed!!
jane

Glad to hear that your little dog is a lot better :)
What a pity the vet didn't mention the possibility of a reaction, it would have saved you a lot of anxiety. And, I agree, those charges are ridiculous .

Does the doctor or nurse tell each mother that there might be a reaction when their child is vaccinated?

Mine did , very definatly, and what to do should it happen. Same when I had to kennel cough my dogs years ago, the vet was very informative with what could happen, what to do etc.

Does the doctor or nurse tell each mother that there might be a reaction when their child is vaccinated?

Well if they don't they should do :).  How else could you guage what was 'normal' and what wasn't ?

If vets went through all the possible reactions and side effects following treatments and medications consultations would be very much longer and consequently more expensive.  The alternative is to rely on people enquiring if something occurs that they are concerned about much as we rely on our own judgement when something just occurs that might require attention.  Personally I think the latter is perfectly reasonable, people cannot be totally mollycoddled they need to use some intelligence such as the OP has in speaking to their vet and enquiring here.

I won't be drawn into an argument but this thread itself is a prime example of an owner worrying unnecessarily due to insufficient advice.
Jane herself said she was annoyed at the vet for not alerting her to possible reactions.
In my opinion, mollycoddling doesn't come into it, it's all about giving people the information they're entitled to. 

Toby has been absolutely fine and I am sure it was just a reaction to the vaccine that had I been informed about I maybe would have expected and not panicked so much. I did not expect an in depth discussion with the vet but she could have mentioned that side affects can occur and preferably before the vaccine was given so that I could have made an informed choice about whether to give my dogs the vaccine or not. I have found your comments reassuring that what has happened is natural but that I needed to monitor him and see a vet if necessary. Thank you all for replying.
jane

If we don't want to rely on our common sense and judgement in reporting concerns as we do with illness and which the OP did and was given reassurance then we should all be prepared to pay for longer consultations.  I know which I prefer :)

I've found a kennels near to me that will accept the homeopathic nosode for kennel cough - now that's what I call progress!

Its hardly mollycoddlying to inform someone of the possible side effects to any given medication, more especially with something like this vaccine which very often has this type of side effect. After all, consultation fees are expensive enough as it is, and a vacc only takes a couple of mins, so an explanation is hardly adding much time at all. I would have thought a couple of mins explanation at consultation would be better than an emergency call after midnight, when the on call vet may be trying for some sleep. I expect (and get from my vet) all the necessary details at my consultation. This is what I pay for.

We don't call the emergency doctor when we have a cough or other minor symptom.  Providing things remain that way we contact them at a more appropriate hour.  I think people have more sense than you credit CS :)
Yes, vets could go into all the side effects or, as in this case the actual effect, but like you say their time is expensive enough and as I keep saying we rely on peoples good sense to realise when their pet is unwell at all times not just following treatments.

We don't call the emergency doctor when we have a cough or other minor symptom.  Providing things remain that way we contact them at a more appropriate hour. 

Did I say that? No. A reaction to a vaccine, now thats a different matter. if you don't know the common side effects, then they can be worrying and yes, a caring concerned owner will most likely call. Some may panic and call the vet out. For goodness sake, we pay a consultation fee and the price of the vaccine, the common side effects should be explained, part of the service. I cant for the life of me understand why you think common side effects should not be explained.

I think people have more sense than you credit CS

Did I say people do not have sense? No, I dont think so. people do realise when the pet is unwell and go to the vet at a reasonable hour if the symptoms demand that, but reaction to a vaccine is different. Unless you are prepared you don't know. Thats not lack of sense, thats a caring owner.

I don't see that a mild response to a vaccine is any different to any other minor illness you just use your common sense as to whether it is serious or not.  It is not a side effect by the way, it is a perfectly normal response.

>We don't call the emergency doctor when we have a cough or other minor symptom.  Providing things remain that way we contact them at a more appropriate hour. 

>Did I say that? No

No you didn't and I didn't say you did.  I was illustrating my point. 
I am just repeating myself now and I think you are too. 

if you don't know what a mild effect is, because you don't know, how can you possibly know the mild effect is a safe one. Again, I have no idea why you don't want people to be informed. When you have a child vaccinated, you are told what side effects are likely, and how to cope with them. Why should it be any different for a dog, or any animal for that matter. The side effect to a vaccine is not the same as a mild illness, it is in reaction to that vaccine, and some reactions can be quite serious. In the example of the OP, she would have felt far happier and more confident had the vet told her about this before the dog was vaccinated, which I would think is the same for most people. Just how long does this simple advice take? Even the vet she called wouldn't commit herself to the vaccine being the cause, so how can the owner feel happy the dog is OK?

We don't call the emergency doctor when we have a cough or other minor symptom.  Providing things remain that way we contact them at a more appropriate hour.
No you didn't and I didn't say you did.  I was illustrating my point.

That point being then, our concern for a poorly dog, not concern for a vaccine reaction. TBH, if my dog suddenly had what seemed like breathing difficulties for no reason in the middle of the night I would call the vet. In reaction to a vaccine, the reason is clear, but not if you have not been told this could happen.

What is glaringly obvious is that you don't think the client should be informed of this vaccine reaction, and I can see no reason why. The only person who could benefit from this lack of knowledge would be a vet who would make more money from another consultation because they couldn't be sure it was the vaccine unless they actually saw the dog. Another £30 for two minutes work. I really hope there are no vets who work like this. In the Ops case, the vet would not give a clear answer that it was the vaccine unless they saw the dog. :(

I am just repeating myself now and I think you are too.

very true, yet you still do not say why you think the client should not be told of this possible reaction and how to deal with it.

>yet you still do not say why you think the client should not be told of this possible reaction and how to deal with it.

Yes I did :)  I personally would not wish to pay for longer consultations to go through every data sheet on each drug.  I think, like the OP, people can recognise if they have a situation of concern and can seek advise as necessary.  The vet in this instance was able to reassure that this was not an emergency situation and the OP was able to recognise that the situation had improved without any need for further veterinary attention in the end. But again, I am repeating all I have already said in one way or another :)

So time and cost is the only reason. :rolleyes: What do we pay our consultation fee for if not the whole thing. A vaccine and the simple, short explanation of possible symptoms following it and what to do is hardly time consuming and is a necessary part of the consultation and the treatment given (in this case the vaccine). Same as when ABs are prescribed, the vet will tell you what to expect, and if a return visit is needed at the end of the course. I wouldn't expect to pay extra for that advice either, but it would have taken the same amount of time to explain.

Had the vet been able to reassure the OP, she wouldn't have needed to ask here, the advice given by the vet was not really that the vaccine was the cause, and what action to take or not, in fact she was also thinking more along the lines of a grass seed! Couldn't/wouldn't give any more advice till the dog had been seen. So thats hardly reassuring. But, had the OP decided to take the dog in, they would have charged an enormous call out fee to give the same advice they should have given when the dog was vaccinated. Or, another consultation fee if the owner was still worried the next day, once again only to give the advice they should have given when the dog was vaccinated.

I really can't understand why you feel clients should be kept in the dark over this sort of thing. :(

If the OP had been given the entire data sheet information they still would not have known whether it was the vaccine working or a grass seed.  They would have still had to use their judgement whether it required attention or not.

She didnt need the data sheet, just a simple this could happen, this is what to do. Thats what you pay your consultation fee for. Then no worry, normal reaction, or time to worry because not normal reaction. same as for children. or any vaccine. Simple as that. :)

....and if it was a grass seed? 
Knowing what the vaccine effect might be would not change having to decide whether veterinary attention was required.  Judging, as all pet owners must do, whether the situation warrents attention will always remain even if you are given a list of all the possibles. 
If people are not happy with their judgement I would suggest they always ask about all the possibles and which are the more probable and while they are at it they might want to ask about all the possibles regarding non medically induced situations too for future reference :) but personally, I don't want to do this every time my vet gives a treatment as at the end of the day it will always boil down to your own judgement as to whether the probables are running true to form or whether the animal needs professional assessment or whether you might just want to seek the thoughts of other pet owners.

>A vaccine and the simple, short explanation of possible symptoms following it and what to do is hardly time consuming and is a necessary part of the consultation and the treatment given (in this case the vaccine). Same as when ABs are prescribed, the vet will tell you what to expect, and if a return visit is needed at the end of the course. I wouldn't expect to pay extra for that advice either, but it would have taken the same amount of time to explain.

Couldn't agree more, CS, :-) one of the most basic principles when one has the responsibility of prescribing drugs IMO.  They are not sweets. 

Thankyou Spender. My thoughts exactly.

Spangler's reaction to his vaccination started out as mild approx 24 hours afterwards, by 36 hours it was more severe and within 7 days he was dead - mild reactions need investigating

The OP did contact their vet.  It is a completely different case to Spanglers and the symptoms described were quite to normal following this particular vaccine.

People should be made aware of side effects of any drug or vaccine before making the decision to go ahead, and also told what signs to watch out for afterwards.

As consultations are so expensive, then this is the least we should expect of vets!

Same answer as before :)

Someone stated on here that KC is nothing serious, I don't think people who have lost dogs to KC would think that!  Like many illnesses that are minor in some can be disasterous in another, especially in young and older dogs.

I'd second that. I've got some friends with goldens and one of them got kennel cough really badly and was pretty ill - she was about two years old so wasn't particularly young and was otherwise healthy. And I know some people that put their dog in a kennels where they had an outbreak of kennel cough (not something I'd do myself mind you :rolleyes: ) which also got it really badly.

And I'm sure I read on someone's website (was it MMs?) about a dog dying from contracting kennel cough, and I seem to remember it wasn't old or ill either. So it CAN be nasty. :(